NOT RIGHT: Police close case on Zodiac

Discussion in 'The Zodiac Killer' started by blueclouds, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    So these murders don't matter anymore? Why? So much time passed? What if this was their own loved one? Why would they NOT still seek justice. Seems like they are basically washing their hands of it, depending on the DNA to "eventually" solve it.

    http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040407_2239.html
     
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  3. bnevin

    bnevin Inactive

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    I don't really think they are washing their hands. A murder case is open forever, unless it gets solved. I think they have just run out of things to check out. I was a member of the Baltimore City Police Dept for 25 years, and did some cold case investigations, and once a case gets cold, about the only thing that is going to solve it is if a person with personal information steps up and tells. Nowdays DNA helps solve cases, but you have to have a specific person to match. I think the Zodiac case is a dead end, and has been for years. I don't believe it will ever be solved. If the Zodiac killer was the closemouthed type and never told anyone, that is it.
     
  4. mindys

    mindys Former Member

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    But they always tell someone, atleast one person. That person has got to come forward.
     
  5. Cypros

    Cypros New Member

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    Maybe it is a strategic move. By announcing the closing of the investigation, they may inspire the killer (or someone who knows who it is) to resurface. Maybe they will get some more letters.

    IMO, it is an unsolvable case unless new information comes out.
     
  6. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    That was my thought too Cypros. Maybe they're hoping he'll send another letter like BTK did a few weeks ago.
     
  7. bnevin

    bnevin Inactive

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    Around 1965 I was a young patrolman working the midnight shift, and we began finding bodies, 5 in all, spaced over a period of two or three months, all had been murdered and dropped off in the same area. All had been strangled, but the medical examiner said that before they died the killer had played tic tac toe on their bodies with a sharp knife. All the victims were what in those days we called "smokehounds", or bums, today they are called homeless. Evidently the killer was picking them up, taking them somewhere, and killing them after torturing them, and then dropping them off. We never got close to solving the case.
     
  8. mindys

    mindys Former Member

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    Wow bnevin, I really have enjoyed your posts drawing on your vast experience and I love Baltimore, we are 5 hours away now, but used to live in Bel Air. What a great city. Do Don and Marty still do the morning news?? I loved their show, but its been a few years!
     
  9. Casshew

    Casshew Former Member

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    Hi bneven... I am so glad you have joined Websleuths... I am looking forward to more of your posts.

    The Tic Tac Toe guy just stopped killing? or perhaps moved on?
     
  10. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    Interesting Bnevin. I believe that Zodiac did hold true to his letters, making it "seem" like accidents... that is, after his proven murder spree. But I think he had done other crimes that he didn't lay claim to because he might have made mistakes.

    Very interesting. You must of had an interesting career.


    PS: edited: in news archives I found a date of a newspaper story of September 1, 1966. I'm gonna see if I can pull up the story. It's probably the same. Newspaper is from Maryland. Although it doesn't say that's where the crimes happened

    I am assuming this freak was never caught?
    God, how do people live like that?
     
  11. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Not necessarily. WHo did Ted Bundy tell? Who did Jeffrey Dahmer confinde in? What about Gacy?

    IMO, this guy probably moved somewhere else, maybe changed his MO.....who knows. Aren't most serial cases solved by common police tactics? (Like a living witness, or a parking ticket, or an officer just pulling someone over?)
     
  12. bnevin

    bnevin Inactive

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    1966 would be about right. There were a couple of bizarre turns to the murders. The medical examiner said that in his opinion the victims had been undressed, and then tortured. He said that after their deaths the murderer had washed the bodies clean, and then redressed them, right down to tieing their shoelaces properly. We never even got to having a suspect in the case. It was an industrial area, closed down about six pm, and the victims were picked up late at night, and obviously were lured into a car with the promise of a drink, or something of that order. The only thing we ever had was the accounts of some of the smokehounds who said they saw a large chrysler auto cruising the neighborhood a couple of times, and that was it. If the killer never told anyone, there is no way the case could have been solved.
     
  13. bnevin

    bnevin Inactive

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    Yes, Don and Marty still do it, still as nutty as ever.
     
  14. MysteryMomma

    MysteryMomma Inactive

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    I thought the police have several strong suspects in the murders just not enough evidence to arrest the man.

    I know a few yrs ago some man was saying his dad was the Zodiac, but I think he was proven wrong.

    I think the "better" serial killers are caught with lotsa luck, and usually for other things. Ted Bundy was caught for his bad driving, and wasn't Dahmer first suspected for distrubing the peace or domestic violence with one of his victims? I think the longer these killers go uncaught the better some of them get. I think it is possible to never tell anyone.
     
  15. Pepper

    Pepper Former Member

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    Are you confusing the Zodiac with the Black Dahlia? Believe a policeman was accusing his father, a skilled surgeon who was having an affair with Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia.
     
  16. vicktor

    vicktor New Member

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    It seemed like the police had 2-3 good suspects. One was a man named Leigh. He worked a menial job, but had attended a lot of college courses. The zodiac probably was pretty bright judging by his writings and his plan of killing people to form a pattern on a map of the area. Leigh had done something in the army where he had used semaphores, different types of drawn symbols which were used for communication. The notes that were sent to the police also used these same symbols. There may have also been other connections that I don't remember. Leigh died in 1978, I think. IMO, he was likely the zodiac. Notice that he did tell someone else, but in a way as to try to keep his identity a secret.
     
  17. kato

    kato New Member

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    You are correct, Pepper.
     
  18. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Zodiac Timeline

    October 30, 1966 Cheri Jo Bates is murdered.

    December, 1966 A poem about killing carved in a desk at Riverside City College Library

    April 30, 1967 3 letters sent regarding victim Cheri Jo Bates.

    One letter sent to Riverside Press Enterprise.
    A second letter sent to Cheri's father Joseph Bates.
    A third letter sent to Riverside Police Department.

    December 20, 1968 David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen are murdered.

    July 4, 1969 Darlene Ferrin and Mike Mageau are shot. Darlene dies, however Mike survives.

    July 31, 1969 3 letters sent regarding the Faraday/Jensen and Shepard/Hartnell with details of the crimes.

    One sent to the Times-Herald.
    A second letter sent to the Chronicle.
    A third letter sent to the Examiner.

    Each letter contain the same message however each letter comes with a different cipher. The ciphers were cracked and reveal a maniacal message about how he enjoys killing

    August 4, 1969 The author calls himself Zodiac, and gives more details of the crimes.

    September 27, 1969 Cecilia Shepard and Brian Hartnell are stabbed multiple times at Lake Berryessa while picnicking. Cecilia died around a day later, however Brian survived and was able to provide a description of Zodiac's bizarre costume.

    October 11, 1969 Paul Stine is shot in the head and dies instantly in his cab.

    October 13, 1969 A letter is sent with a piece of Stine's bloody t-shirt.

    November 8, 1969 Dripping pen letter.

    November 9, 1969 Bus Bomb letter. He also writes about how he got away from the police during the Stine shooting.

    December 20, 1969 Zodiac sends a letter to attorney Melvin Belli asking for help. To prove he is the Zodiac, a piece of Stine's bloody shirt comes with the letter.

    March 22, 1970 Kathleen Johns is abducted by a man who looked like the Zodiac. Kathleen jumped out of the car and got away. The man went back and set her car on fire.

    April 20, 1970 "My name is" letter with a cipher.

    April 28, 1970 Dragon card.

    May, 1970
    June 26, 1970 Letter with bus bomb location cipher.

    July 24, 1970 Mikado letter.

    July 26, 1970 Zodiac takes credit for the Kathleen Johns abduction from March 22, 1970. He also describes other possible future victims but does not gives their names.

    September 6, 1970 Donna Lass disappears and is never found.

    October 27, 1970 Halloween card.

    March 13, 1971 Zodiac claims to be crack proof.

    January 29, 1974 Exorcist letter.

    May 8, 1974 The author calls himself "a citizen".

    July 8, 1974 The author calls himself "Red Phantom".

    April 24, 1978 The letter states "I am back with you". However this letter is believed to be forged, possibly an inside job.

    Link
    http://www.olesin.50megs.com/zodiac/timeline.htm
     
  19. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Some think that Ted Kaczynski should be considered a possible suspect in the Zodiac Murders.

    Ted Kaczynski (aka Unibomber) took graduate-level classes at the University of Chicago and Northwestern. He received a master's degree in 1964 and a Ph.D. in 1967, both in mathematics, from the University of Michigan. His dissertation was titled "Boundary Functions."

    Kaczynski was hired as an assistant math professor at the University of California at Berkeley for the 1967-68 school year. He resigned June 30, 1969. Officials say they don't know why he left.

    After quitting Berkeley, Kaczynski lived in Utah in the late 1970s and early 1980s, where he did odd jobs and menial labor. He bought his land in the mountains of Montana 10 to 12 years ago. Neighbors say he has lived there since 1971.

    If Ted was offered a teaching position in Berkeley for the 67-68 school year, it would seem quite possible that he may have visited San Francisco in 1966 to interview for the job. The first listed Zodiac killing is the only one which preceeds his time in residence there.

    Note that Zodiac seems to send his last note just as UNIBOM begins his career.
     
  20. blueclouds

    blueclouds Former member

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    I understand Richard, that cops have all but cleared Kaczynski in this. Why? I don't know. But they don't believe he's involved. Possibly because a DNA test was done on the samples they have from Zodiac (ie: from letters); fingerprint found in taxi cab of last known victim.
    I'd think he's a potential suspect as well.
     
  21. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    DNA analysis of the Zodiac letters might have been done, but I had never heard that it implicated or cleared anyone. I also do not recall if there was any DNA evidence linking Ted to the Unibomber letters or packages. I would be interested to hear if anyone has heard of or seen such evidence.

    There are a number of similarities between Zodiac and Unibomber. For one thing, the time of year or season seems to be a similar pattern. The Unibomber liked to send his bombs in the spring and in the fall mostly - with a few mid summer exceptions. Zodiac also seems to have preferred the same dates. Unibomber also favored certain phases of the moon for his attacks.

    Both Zodiac and Unibomber are big on sending things through the US Mail, and in writing letters. Zodiac has his ciphers or codes, and Kaczynski is a brilliant mathmatician.

    Ted Kaczynski is living in San Francisco, teaching at Berkeley, 1967-68 between the first Zodiac killing and second. He resigns from Berkeley the end of June 1969, and a few days later on 4 July 1969, the big Zodiac killing spree starts and extends thru March 1971.

    Ted's neighbors claim that Ted first moved to Montana in 1971. There are three separate letters to the newspaper in SF in 1974, and a possible one in 1978 stating "I'm back". Then nothing more from Zodiac. Coincidentally, that is the start of Unibomber's 17 year spree.

    Most of Unibomber's packages are mailed from San Francisco, during trips that Ted makes there from Montana.

    So there are many connections. The hard part of accepting such a match would be to believe that Zodiac changed his way of doing business so completely. With all the writings of Ted, as Unibomber, I wonder if there are any hand writing links to Zodiac. It would be interesting to know Ted's "thoughts" on Zodiac. Or to see of he could decipher letters written in Zodiac's code.

    There are many similarities between the Unibomber case and the case of George Metesky, aka "The Mad Bomber" of the 1940's, and also to the "New York Subway Bomber" of the early 1960's. In the first instance, it may have been that Ted had studied the case and tried to copy Metesky. In the second, if Ted was not involved in those bombings, he certainly would have heard of them and may have studied them as well.
     

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