Not Waking Burke

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Nedthan Johns, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Trish brings up a very compelling fact that makes sense, she says:

    "There is only one reason. There was no need to wake up Burke because Patsy knew. And this one fact leads me to believe that John knew too. If Patsy was the only one who knew why in the world wouldn’t John, the big take charge CEO, run upstairs, grab Burke and say, “What did you hear?”

    I agree with this, and is further evidence IMO that John was in fact part of the coverup.


    The FACT that neither parent questioned Burke but invited every living soul they knew into their home for support, and sent Burke away, how did they not know the intruder was perhaps hiding somewhere in that house? The first NORMAL reaction would have been to search for JonBenet, search the house in case the intruder was still present. I could understand the need to get Burke OUT of the house, but without questioning him? How did the Ramsey’s know if the intruder may have tried to take Burke first or if perhaps Burke heard this intruder in the home?

    It’s strange after so many years discussing this case, some things just hit you like a TON of bricks. I realized that the Ramsey’s did this but didn’t tie in the fact that this is FURTHER proof that ties John Ramsey into the crime and cover up a lot earlier than I expected. Even if John suspected Patsy wrote that note but didn’t know for certain, he would have questioned Burke. He didn’t.
     
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  3. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    And not only did he not bother to question the only other person in the home, he snapped at the poor kid - we're not talking to you! - (allegedly ;) ).

    Even if they did decide to just call the cops without searching the house, which actually I could believe in those circumstances - you find a ransom note, you panic, you pick up the phone, being careful to tell them of the note's warnings, of course - however, you don't then invite in the brunch group, openly defying the note and risking your daughter's life, and you don't verbally blast your only other kid back to his room when he could HELP.... uh, I mean let him sleep and not pester him with silly questions like "did you see an intruder?"
     
  4. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Also hinky is the fact that Burke walked right past LE and the Rs' friends on his way out the door to go to the Whites' without asking what was going on. His not asking questions or even appearing bewildered tells me he didn't have to ask what was going on, because he already knew.

    Not only did John and Patsy not wake Burke to make sure he was okay and ask him questions (Do you know where JonBenet is? Did you see or hear anything odd during the night? etc.) but they had a fit when Burke was later questioned by a police officer at the Whites'. Also, much later, when Burke was being interviewed by the police psychologist, Patsy sat in the waiting area, weeping hysterically. She must have been scared to death he was going to spill the beans, or at least say something incriminating.

    imo
     
  5. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

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    Well, not only did John NOT question Burke, and let him out of his sight....this was done with the 'suspicious' vehicle in the alley, the one John observed and forgot to tell the police immediately!

    Oh wait, John said he watched it a few minutes and decided it was safe, since no activity was seen in that time. (Kidnappers can't hide in a van you know, they are pretty stupid and stand outside with a gun or something.)

    John wasn't worried even though the note said the kidnappers were watching him so close John had better not talk to a stray dog. Considering all the people invited into the home that morning...what made John think Burke was safe? Even with an adult with him? The kidnappers were a group.
     
  6. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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  7. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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  8. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    I disagree. A child learns behaviors from its parents, and Burke had much to learn from his. Both Patsy and John have gone on the record as saying that "just (going) back to bed and (going) to sleep" are exactly the things they have done. You can see this in the stories they've told in DOI and elsewhere. Patsy has explicitly said, when John would wake up in the middle of the night and go into his office to cry (and this was before JonBenet was murdered), Patsy would hear him, but she would refuse to get up and find out what the problem was, or even attempt to comfort her husband when he was obviously in pain.

    I will say that again. Patsy herself has said she would hear her husband crying in the middle of the night, and instead of going to him to even try and comfort him, she would pretend to be asleep. John then went on, as the NE transcripts illustrate, to demonstrate that he was fooled by Patsy. He went on the record to say that he believed Patsy was a sound sleeper, and that he managed to avoid waking her up when he was crying in the middle of the night.

    I will go out on a limb and say this. Since Patsy could hear John crying in the middle of the night, and yet she refused to get up and acknowledge what she heard, Burke may have also been hearing his own father crying in the middle of the night, and learned from his mother to stay in bed when he heard someone crying or upset. Patsy has taught her son a lesson: when you are an earwitness to a problem, the best thing to do is pretend you did not hear it.
     
  9. K777angel

    K777angel New Member

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    It is completely illogical to think that were this a TRUE kidnapping and a TRUE ransom note that Patsy and John found that morning, that they wouldn't wake Burke promptly!! Perhaps he heard something or saw something during the night. You would be obsessed at this point of hoping that he DID. Of hoping for ANY clue, ANY sign of her or who took her or what happened.

    But not waking Burke falls right into line with alot of other logical things they did "not" do. They did not search their house thoroughly. They did not run outside (this is so important) searching everywhere on their property. They did not RUN to their neighbors begging for someone to tell them any information of anything they may have seen or heard during the night.

    They simply sat around and cried and wrung their hands. They even ignored the 'note'. That note was the biggest link to their daughter and because it was THREE pages long it would have taken alot of time to scrutinize looking for clues of WHO might have her.

    The decision to shuffle Burke off and away from them and their protection (not to mention police protection in their home and NOT at the White's...)
    is one of the biggest clues that they KNEW what happened to JonBenet.

    The fact that they were compelled to LIE about Burke being awake that morning (until caught on the 911 tape) - begs the question of WHY the need to lie about HIM? Because they were building on other lies prepared about HIM? They knew he was not asleep that morning. That was why there was no need to "wake" him. And by John's tone of voice (angry) at Burke on the 911 tape - it seems to be that they are distancing Burke away from this crime and that they are very unhappy with him.
    I think THAT may be why they shuffled him out of the house that morning in part. Too painful.....
     
  10. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I wonder why the police didn't "wake" him and question him.
     
  11. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    I don't think it was too long after Detective French arrived that Flet White and JR woke Burke and had him leave the house. But yes, another would of, could of, should of on behalf of the Boulder police department. NO ONE should have been allowed to leave that house
     
  12. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Right, Ned, and excellent question, Tipper. Between the incompetent police work the morning of the 26th and the corrupt and incompetent DA's office from then on, Boulder law enforcement really screwed justice in this case.
     
  13. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    Barbara,

    Kids have rights.......they can be represented by an attorney, and the parents should be consulted before they're questioned---the Ramseys didn't make a big deal of the fact that he was questioned without their knowledge---and you'll notice leaky Thomas never said much about that--because there was nothing there. JR said he didn't fault the BPD that first day--there was a lot of commotion going on.

    Burke was a quiet kid---it sounds more like he was confused and not really comprehending what was going on, so remained quiet---not every kid is a jabbering pain in the *ss.

    The 24/7 coverage was by the BPD--they had someone posted at the Stines around the clock to "protect" the Ramseys. Again, leaky Thomas didn't have to say about the interactions then---because they weren't incriminating.

    We all know who and why the lawyers were retained in the beginning---who better to handle things when you can't. When JR made that telephone call to go to Atlanta, it was right after JBR was found---I think he was in shock, and not thinking clearly. JR has stated there were mistakes he made---on the other hand, once he found out he was being targeted as a suspect, he had no choice but to rely on the lawyers. He was not arrested--the BPD could have cooperated on the terms the lawyers set. It was a hopeless standoff from the start.
     
  14. Maikai

    Maikai New Member

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    JR preferred to be alone with his grief--nothing strange there---some people just don't want someone hovering over them. I find it hard to believe Patsy never tried to comfort him---I think she was just giving him space.
     
  15. Islander

    Islander New Member

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    Even if we give the parents the benefit of the doubt and assume they thought that Burke would have voluntarily told them if he had heard something that night, that still leaves the possibility that Burke may have saw something unusual the day before, or the day before that. If he had seen a stranger approach JB one or two days before, should the parents assume that Burke understood the potential significance of that and would just blurt it out without being questioned? I don’t think so.

    I also have some questions about John’s movements prior to the arrival of the police. I recognize we all may react differently to a crisis, but I think I would have been very concerned for the immediate safety of what was left of my family after reading that ransom note found in my house. I don’t think I would have left Patsy or Burke out of my sight until the police arrived. Yet, John left Patsy on one floor of the house, Burke on another, while he went to yet another floor to get dressed. It doesn’t seem to me that he had any fear at all that this “foreign faction” was close by.
     
  16. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator

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    Plain and simple.

    There is no way in hell any parent, after finding a note saying their daughter was kidnapped, would let their child leave the house without at least asking him if he heard anything in the night.

    In reality every single parent, who had nothing to hide, would have dashed up to Burke's room and woke him up and asked him questions.

    It is so incomprehensible to think that the only other person in the house was not asked if he heard anything.

    The only thing that makes sense is if the Ramseys didn't need to question Burke. They didn't need to question him because they knew.

    It's plain and simple.
     
  17. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Yes Tricia, plain and simple to all but the delusional Ramsey supporters who feel the need to somehow justify all the Ramsey actions which prove they are connected to the crime.
     
  18. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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  19. lcookster

    lcookster New Member

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    Wow- first time I clicked on the link that shows the handwriting analysis and comparison. Looks pretty compelling to me. BTW, I am a 'newbie' on this particular forum section. Can anyone suggest some good resources to get caught up on this? Since we have had several crashes since I joined there aren't as many archives. I've done some 'googling' but if there are succinct summaries you could suggest that would be great. Thanks-L
     
  20. Show Me

    Show Me New Member

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    Maikai posted:

    John had no qualms on sending his son away, with kidnappers out there, to the White's. Yet within a half hour of finding JonBenet's body, he wants to get out of Atlanta?

    What happened that made John suddenly decide the whole family was in such danger they needed to leave immediately...yet earlier Burke was perfectly safe to leave with Priscilla?

    The RST's arrogant constant chant: THE BPD NEEDS TO COOPERATE WITH US! Not hey...maybe if we cooperate with the police we can clear our names. But noooooooo....it's the mean old BPD who won't follow the Ramsey's personal lawyers and investigators advice.

    Edited for typo
     
  21. Cherokee

    Cherokee Member

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    Welcome to Websleuths, L.

    Go to www.acandyrose.com for the best website on everything about the JBR case. It has links to all the major resources as well as official transcripts.

    Read Perfect Murder, Perfect Town by Lawrence Schiller, and JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas for details on the case including the initial bungling of the crime scene by the BPD, and the back room Boulder politics that insured the wealthy and well-connected Ramseys were treated with kid gloves AND given case evidence.

    It is a frustrating and fascinating case ... but be careful ... it has the ability to suck you in and never let go. :)



    IMO
     

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