Not Waking Burke

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It sure does. Which leads me to a little fun…

How long has everyone here been posting on forums concerning the Ramsey case?

For me it started in late 1998 on the Larry King Live forum, shortly after the Ramsey’s appearance. I was on there for about 6 months until they finally shut it down, and luckily I found Justice Watch and was there until that was sold and make the mistake of going over to the double B until I finally made my way to Websleuths. That makes it a total of 6 years. Scary thought!

Does anyone know exactly HOW many forums are now devoted to this case?

Websleuths
Double B
Forums for Justice

Who else?
 
Maikai said:
We all know who and why the lawyers were retained in the beginning---who better to handle things when you can't.
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Right. Those poor devastated Ramseys... couldn't think straight, couldn't lift a fork, couldn't take a **** without their lawyers. So it must've been the lawyers who advised the Ramseys to go on CNN the day after the funeral? Hey, John and Patsy, go on national and international television, introduce yourselves and do your best to turn this case into a media nightmare. Oh and be sure to mention high-profile murderers OJ Simpson and Susan Smith while you're there.

:laugh:
He was not arrested--the BPD could have cooperated on the terms the lawyers set.
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lol.. Yes, of course, if cops would just let suspects run things, ALL investigations would go smoother. :D
 
Nedthan Johns said:
How long has everyone here been posting on forums concerning the Ramsey case?

For me it started in late 1998 on the Larry King Live forum, shortly after the Ramsey’s appearance. I was on there for about 6 months until they finally shut it down, and luckily I found Justice Watch and was there until that was sold and make the mistake of going over to the double B until I finally made my way to Websleuths. That makes it a total of 6 years. Scary thought!
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Not quite that scary, Ned, unless I missed a couple years... this IS 2004, isn't it? lol Get out your calculator. :) It has only been four years... since spring of 2000, when the Ramseys' book came out (as well as Thomas's) and they were beginning the media tours, after the GJ had disbanded the prior fall. I know 'cause I was there, too: LKL/CNN forum, then JW.
 
Nedthan Johns said:
How long has everyone here been posting on forums concerning the Ramsey case?

Websleuths
Double B
Forums for Justice

Who else?
Click to expand...

I started at webbsleuths in Nov. 2002 till Aug. 2003. Didn't want to pay $50, so have been here starting Aug. 2003.
 
Show Me said:
The RST's arrogant constant chant: THE BPD NEEDS TO COOPERATE WITH US!
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Right, Show Me. The Ramseys try to pass off their righteous indignation as an entitlement... figuring if they act like they're that special, people will treat them as if they're that special. They are classic con artists.
 
By Britt---lol.. Yes, of course, if cops would just let suspects run things, ALL investigations would go smoother.
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Gee, just think of how many more people could have been thrown under the bus if the Ramsey's would have been "running" things....

Britt, thanks for the laugh, I needed it after the day I have had...
 
Britt said:
Right, Show Me. The Ramseys try to pass off their righteous indignation as an entitlement... figuring if they act like they're that special, people will treat them as if they're that special. They are classic con artists.
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Yep...this is what con artists do.
 
Barbara said:
Once again, we have changed "illegal" to "should be" consulted when questioning a child.

Ok...let's change it back to LEGAL requirement. In the whole scheme of things, the Ramseys didn't make an issue out of it--they were contending with the murder of JonBenet. They had nothing to hide.....what Burke did or didn't say at the time, probably was not utmost in their minds.


A nine year old boy doesn't have to be a jabbering pain in the *advertiser censored*. No, it sounds like he was either aware of what was happening from earlier on, already knowing what was going on or he sounds quite ABNORMAL! Again, he had his wits about him enough to need his Nintendo before he left. Just more spin

And I'm saying a 9-year old child such as Burke did not have the emotional ability or wherewithal to digest what was going on....and the adults around him wanted to protect him.

They didn't get to the Stines until some time after the murder. I'm talking about BEFORE the Stines. Where was the "hold your babies close" attitude when getting him out of the house that day and the many many days following?

I'm talking about when the Ramseys were told they couldn't come back into the house--I forget if it was the Stine's or somewhere else they went to---but the cops were there 24/7. Burke was going to the White's...other people were there, as well as a cop---no need to fear he would be in danger.

Well, nothing like being vague, eh Maikai? We ALL know who and why? Why don't you explain? I certainly don't know. Here we have people who are handling the funeral arrangements, plans to leave Boulder, etc. ALL BY THEMSELVES! The lawyers weren't needed to handle these things. Hell, they didn't even need the "friends, pastor, doctor, etc" to help them make these arrangements, but the scapegoat for everything convenient is that they couldn't handle anything. What bull!

I don't think they handled anything on their own once JBR was found dead. Mike Bynum--a former assistant DA in Boulder, was the one initially that realized the BPD was targeting the Ramseys--was going to hold JBR's body as ransom.


Again, yet he was thinking clearly enough to make the arrangements himself, and let's not forget, despite what was happening EARLIER, he had the wherewithall to call the pilot and get in touch with his older children, etc. I think that amounts to thinking pretty clearly.

They say when someone experiences a shock, the mind takes over, or you'd go stark raving mad----I think JR was going through the motions--Patsy was a baseketcase----both reacted pretty much like their personalities.

Ah, this is my favorite spin of all! Just WHEN did he find out he was being "targeted" as a suspect? And by whom? Who targeted his ex family that he immediately needed attorneys for them? JR admitted he made mistakes? JR also said he understands fully that the family must be cleared first before going outside the circle, yet his actions do not support that statement. He had many choices and chose the wrong one for JonBenet, although the right one for selfish, me, me me parents who just wanted to get on with life 1 week after the murder.
And my other favorite bulls**t: THE BPD COULD HAVE COOPERATED.....

He was smart to get attorneys for everyone. Some of those statements were made in retrospect that you quoted. The Ramseys had no idea on how a criminal investigation works in the early hours---they called the cops---who wouldn't? They relied on the cops to help them....they didn't know what else to do.

At this stage of the case, I truly believe that many members of the RST don't really believe this crap any more but have to save face by continuing to spin the obvious BS the Ramseys have served up on a silver platter. So very sad.
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Nope.....no crap---there's nothing there to indicate loving parents all of a sudden turned into sadistic murders, capable of covering up a crime. The prisons are full of psychos that kill and ruin lives-sometimes with little motivation. That's what happened here. Not unlike Princess Diana being killed by a drunk driver--somewhat common theme----we're going to find this was a kidnapping gone bad by an amateur, that lucked out when the BPD made mistakes.
 
I don't think they handled anything on their own once JBR was found dead. Mike Bynum--a former assistant DA in Boulder, was the one initially that realized the BPD was targeting the Ramseys--was going to hold JBR's body as ransom.
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But Mike Bynum would have to have already been involved to tell them they were being targeted. First they called lawyers because they were being targeted and now it was Bynum who realized it...after they already called lawyers. Which is it?

The prisons are also full of people who had NO indications of being murderers, rapists etc. Yet they are there.

I agree that we will find that "amateurs" committed this crime and lucked out by the BPD blunders AND lots of money to keep them out of prison. But this was no kidnapping gone bad.
 
From CrimeLibrary

On December 27, the Rocky Mountain News quoted an Assistant District Attorney as saying, "It was very unusual for a kidnap victim's body to be found at home - it's not adding up." According to Charlie Brennan, the journalist who wrote the story, the police had also indicated to him that they held a strong belief that the parents were responsible. Julie Hayden, a television reporter for Denver's Channel 7, also covered the story on the same day and drew the same conclusion. She later explained that from her first exposure to the case, the police had made it very clear that they were not scouring the area looking for "some mad kidnapper" but instead, concentrating their efforts on John and Patsy Ramsey.
From that day on, a clear pattern emerged in the coverage of the case. While police chief, Tom Koby, made little comment, reporters had their own sources, which tended to implicate the Ramseys. At that point, John and Patsy were placed under police protection but were largely unaware of the mounting suspicion against them. One man, however, saw the early warning signs and acted. Mike Bynum, a lawyer friend of John's hired Brian Morgan to act as their personal council. In the same documentary he defended his appointment, stating: -

"It is foolish to blindly throw oneself into the maw of the justice system and to trust the result. One simply must be thoughtful about the way one acts, especially in a case of media attention that reaches the point of near hysteria and especially in a case of media attention which, from the outset, portrays certain people as clearly guilty."

He also defended the need for legal representation: - "If you're guilty, you want to think about having a lawyer, and I want to tell you what, if you're innocent you better have a lawyer - there is no difference."

​
 
tipper said:
From CrimeLibrary

On December 27, the Rocky Mountain News quoted an Assistant District Attorney as saying, "It was very unusual for a kidnap victim's body to be found at home - it's not adding up." According to Charlie Brennan, the journalist who wrote the story, the police had also indicated to him that they held a strong belief that the parents were responsible. Julie Hayden, a television reporter for Denver's Channel 7, also covered the story on the same day and drew the same conclusion. She later explained that from her first exposure to the case, the police had made it very clear that they were not scouring the area looking for "some mad kidnapper" but instead, concentrating their efforts on John and Patsy Ramsey.
From that day on, a clear pattern emerged in the coverage of the case. While police chief, Tom Koby, made little comment, reporters had their own sources, which tended to implicate the Ramseys. At that point, John and Patsy were placed under police protection but were largely unaware of the mounting suspicion against them. One man, however, saw the early warning signs and acted. Mike Bynum, a lawyer friend of John's hired Brian Morgan to act as their personal council. In the same documentary he defended his appointment, stating: -

"It is foolish to blindly throw oneself into the maw of the justice system and to trust the result. One simply must be thoughtful about the way one acts, especially in a case of media attention that reaches the point of near hysteria and especially in a case of media attention which, from the outset, portrays certain people as clearly guilty."

He also defended the need for legal representation: - "If you're guilty, you want to think about having a lawyer, and I want to tell you what, if you're innocent you better have a lawyer - there is no difference."

​
Click to expand...

Over these many years, I have always defended the Ramseys and their choice to get attorneys. They could afford it, and it was obvious that they wanted and needed them. I have also always said that I never faulted them nor looked askew at that choice.

BUT..and it's a big BUT, when you know the authorities are leaning heavily in your direction as the "guilty parents", now you have the best TEAM of lawyers to handle the police and further questioning, etc; why not put the best interests of JonBenet ahead of your own and get that out of the way? Take your lawyers with you to the police station immediately, have your lawyers with you during all questioning, answer all the questions and get yourselves cleared (I refuse to fault the authorities because they initially suspected the parents, that is normal operating procedure) of the crime in a show of support and allow the authorities to begin looking in the right direction?????????? There is no explanation for that except for the Ramseys statements that their mistakes were to listen to their lawyers.

Of course, they refused to listen to their attorneys when going on LKL (self admittedly) and refused to listen to their attorneys when finally going and answering questions much later, yet they listened to their lawyers when it was the most important and crucial time in the case.

Nobody is questioning the fact that the authorities were certainly looking at the family. They were. No dispute. The Ramseys knew it as well as everyone else. No big secret.

With that in mind, get yourselves out of the loop and allow the authorities to look elsewhere. They never did that and then for all these years complained that the authorities thought they did it. Why wouldn't they?

The main reason persons retain attorneys is for the questioning, etc.

They have made all their own choices and will forever pay the consequences for thinking they are above it all (and the law).
 
My life has not allowed me to read this entire thread yet!

Given the mish mash about whether Burkes voice is caught on the 911 (not hung up call) Johns voice WAS (am I wrong ?)- saying 'WE' are not talking to YOU. Well WHO was John talking to?

In Burkes interview where he commented on the interviewers Rolex watch, Burke responded something to the effect, 'that everyone has secrets', weird response, imop. IF IF I had been 12, (which I actually was - once) I would have been shivering in my Fruit of the Looms, not being evasive with BPD. Of course he had a prevous example of how to handle LE, when no one actually opened the Ramsey FRONT door on the 23rd of December when the Boulder Police Department responded to a STRANGE 911 call. Just talking through the door 'hole' or whatever that communication ability was at the front door.

It is obvious at this point, after literally years of second guessing 'what happened' in that house on THAT night, that there are a number of valid sounding explanations about the strange goings on that could actually be the truth, hmmm.

So far no one is being held in the State prison for murdering this beautiful little child.

Good luck on getting Johns rear end caught in the voting machines of Michigan.

Britt, got a kick out of your comment regarding the 'Brunch Group' being invited over 'THAT' morning! Hey gang remember the excuse for that behavior, "WE" didn't read the whole ransom note". There is that "WE" again!!
 
Camper said:
My life has not allowed me to read this entire thread yet!

Given the mish mash about whether Burkes voice is caught on the 911 (not hung up call) Johns voice WAS (am I wrong ?)- saying 'WE' are not talking to YOU. Well WHO was John talking to?

In Burkes interview where he commented on the interviewers Rolex watch, Burke responded something to the effect, 'that everyone has secrets', weird response, imop. IF IF I had been 12, (which I actually was - once) I would have been shivering in my Fruit of the Looms, not being evasive with BPD. Of course he had a prevous example of how to handle LE, when no one actually opened the Ramsey FRONT door on the 23rd of December when the Boulder Police Department responded to a STRANGE 911 call. Just talking through the door 'hole' or whatever that communication ability was at the front door.

It is obvious at this point, after literally years of second guessing 'what happened' in that house on THAT night, that there are a number of valid sounding explanations about the strange goings on that could actually be the truth, hmmm.

So far no one is being held in the State prison for murdering this beautiful little child.

Good luck on getting Johns rear end caught in the voting machines of Michigan.

Britt, got a kick out of your comment regarding the 'Brunch Group' being invited over 'THAT' morning! Hey gang remember the excuse for that behavior, "WE" didn't read the whole ransom note". There is that "WE" again!!
Click to expand...
I think the 911 call on the 23rd is the link that would solve this case; however, that information is not available to us...unless, unless someone talks. I continue to remain hopeful.
What are some of the valid sounding explanations about that call? What has been posted about it in the past? Where can I find the interview with Burke?
Thanks, Camper
 
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