NV NV - Antelope, WhtFem 362UFNV, 25-30, found nude in cave, Sept'86

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by CarlK90245, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The Doe Network:
    Case File 362UFNV
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/362ufnv.html
    NamUs UP Case 9027 https://identifyus.org/cases/9027
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Reconstructions of Victim by Left 3: Wesley Neville; Right: Dalene Nielson

    Unidentified White Female

    The victim was discovered on September 27, 1986 in Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada.
    Estimated Date of Death: 3 - 4 weeks prior to discovery
    Cause of Death: Undetermined

    Vital Statistics

    Estimated age: 25 - 30 years old
    Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6"; 92 lbs. (in life she could have weighed 15 - 20 pounds more.)
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Light to medium brown hair that may have been previously streaked, 6-9 inches in length. Slender build. She had given birth to at least one child.
    Dentals: Available. She had dental restorations on a few of her teeth. No missing teeth.
    Clothing: Clothing found in the area included: white tennis shoes with pink stripes, a beige t-shirt with floral design on the front and back - size medium. Blue jean pants - brand Willie Country - size 9, a bra and one white sock with red trim. Eye glasses were also found nearby, large clear plastic type frame with almost round lenses. There is no indication that the glasses were prescription or otherwise. There is no indication of manufacturers name. Plastic Colgate mouthwash bottle, kissing stick lip gloss, and a book of matches (Major League Baseball-official caps Advertisement) were found in the cave entrance.

    Case History
    The victim was found in a cave on the outskirts of Las Vegas on September 27, 1986. An open desert area about 2.5 miles south of W. Charleston Boulevard & about 4 miles west of Antelope. She was found in the cave, nude, lying partially under a blanket. Some clothing was found nearby. She had no traumatic injuries. It appeared that she may have been living there for a short time.

    A tox test showed negative for drugs/alcohol. She had multiple stress ulcers in her stomach. There was no evidence of any food, cans, packaging, bags etc. inside or outside of the cave.
     
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  3. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This is a newly added MP casefile in NamUs. I just called it in. Everything fits pretty good except the height.

    KATHARINA KISZONAK
    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12589/3


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The clothing matches (Blue Jeans, light colored blouse, and Tennis Shoes), and she owns a pair of plastic framed eyeglasses, as is described of the glasses found with the UID.

    ETA: I just realized that she was missing in July 1985 (not 86), so the timeframe is over a year (not two months as I had previously thought). But still, this looks like a pretty good possible. The DoeNet narrative indicates "It appeared that she may have been living [in the cave] for a short time."

    It is not clear whether the body was decomposed enough to detect the rising sun tattoo w/birds on her right shoulder, or evidence of heroin addiction. But the heroin addiction would explain why she was living in a cave.

    The body was intact enough to detect stomach ulcers.

    There is also no indication that the UID had crooked teeth, as is described of Katharina.
     
  4. masnitram

    masnitram Antithesis

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    Carl, I didn't check here prior to see that you made the same connection.

    This is the reply I got from Rick Jones two days ago

    " Hi Sam, thank you for your suggestion on checking Katharina Kiszonak. We have not checked her as of yet to our Jane Doe. According to NamUs, Katharina has DNA submitted for testing. Our Jane Doe's DNA has completed testing and we will contact the FBI CODIS and have them compare the profiles. We'll let you know the results. Katharina does not have dental records available. Our Jane Doe does not appear to have crooked teeth but we don't like to rule out on this alone. Our Jane Doe was partially decomposed and a tattoo is not visible on her back so we can't rule her out. We will wait for the DNA results.


    Thank you again.

    Rick"
     
  5. masnitram

    masnitram Antithesis

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    Katharina Kiszonak and Veronica Brewer have just been ruled out. Here is the reply from Rick Jones.

    Sam, we requested UNT to check the mtDNA sample they have on file of our decedent with the mtDNA profiles of the maternal mother of each NamUs MP#12589 Katharina Kiszonak and MP#8364 Veronica Brewer and we were just notified that they are different therefore they are not the decedent.

    Thank you again, and keep searching.

    Happy Thanksgiving.

    Rick​
     
  6. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Active Member

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    She weighed between 92 and 112 pounds and wore size 9 jeans? Something is wrong there. I'm much shorter, but I weigh about the same, and I wear a 2 or 4 depending on the manufacturer...I buy 2P or 4P, but I would guess someone at 5'6", 112 would wear a 4 or at most a 6. I'm thinking she weighed more than the estimate, at least when she went missing. Perhaps she lost weight later.
     
  7. Angie4b1g

    Angie4b1g New Member

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    I would agree - I am 5'6" and I wear an 8, and I weigh FAR FAR more than 112. :crazy:

    Also, size 9 would fall under "juniors" which has a different cut than womens, so it's possible she wasn't overly 'curvy' if she could wear those. No momma hips, for sure. Unless, of course, they were 4 sizes too big... which they would have if she weighed 112 or less at that height.
     
  8. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Active Member

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    I know she's a little old at 36, but I'm just putting her out there anyways:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/11898/17/

    She apparently liked to wear this style of glasses, possibly transient, some belongings found in Reno, NV, but perhaps she continued further south?
     
  9. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Maybe they weren't her jeans and she just found them somewhere or something. Unless the jeans themselves were mislabled that really doesn't add up.
     
  10. traacker13

    traacker13 New Member

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    I was just coming here to post that maybe Julianne Jalliet was a possibility. It looks like Irish_Eyes beat me to it. Irish Eyes, was Julianne ever submitted to LE?
     
  11. Irish_Eyes

    Irish_Eyes Active Member

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    She was not. Julianne's daughter posted here at WS a few months ago in a thread dedicated to her. I don't remember what specifically it was, but some of the details she provided made me certain this could not be Julianne.

    Here is her thread...WA WA - Julianne Jaillet, 36, Bellevue, 1 June 1985 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    That's right....the timeline. It sounds from the thread as if Julianne met with foul play at the time of her disappearance, not 1 year later when the UID was estimated to have died.
     
  12. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    How about Sheri Lynn Swims? Her hair was described as having been streaked like the UID and she had one child. On the night/early morning that she disappeared, she was said to have [according to the Charley Project] been in a vehicle that was stopped by police, then after the police had let her and her friend go, she had jumped out of the vehicle, hysterical, and ran off, never to be seen again. As improbably as it sounds, maybe she did have some sort of mental breakdown and end up in a cave in Nevada?
    [​IMG]
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11914/88
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/swims_sheri.html
     
  13. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sheri Swims wore dentures. The UID doesn't
     
  14. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I'm not sure how I overlooked that. :confused:
     
  15. masnitram

    masnitram Antithesis

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    I agree with Irish Eyes, who proposed Julianne Jaillett several months ago and traacker13.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11898

    Despite being from Washington they found some of her stuff in Reno, NV. FWIW, I emailed Rick Jones at the Clark County Coroners office for a look. Her nose compared the drawing is what initially caught my attention. Timeline, height, and weight are good as well IMO even if she is a bit older than the estimate age of the UID. Even though the other thread on her suspects foul play etc... I understand what her daughter stated and why Julianne may NOT be this person...but I don't think it'll hurt to make sure, one more rule-out is better than not knowing.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. masnitram

    masnitram Antithesis

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    Got a reply already from Rick Jones...

    "Hi Sam, thanks for the tip, we sent her name in also for a DNA check, I'll let you know. Have a good weekend.



    Rick"
     
  17. nola

    nola New Member

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    Well, I'm just finding the thread for LV "Cavegirl". Where have I been, right? I have additional information about this case that Rick Jones shared with me back in 2010 when I visited with him about Arroyo Grande Jane Doe. I was new to WS at the time, so please don't think me awful for not sharing then. So glad that Carl started a thread for her. I had asked Rick about scars, tats, dental records, and window for time of death - he sent me the following e-mail reply:

    "I am off and do not have access to the file from home but from memory, she did not have any scars tattoos or birthmarks - but I would not rule out small birthmarks or small scars as her skin was dried and it tightens so it may mask the scars/marks. Regarding the teeth, I'll check when I get back to work no Wednesday. Regarding her postmortem interval, the medical examiner put the death in August but my experience on dealing with decomp bodies would put her during a cooler time period of 5 days from when she was found to 10 days BUT she was found in a cave which could be considerbly cooler so I would go 5 days from when she was found to 3 weeks to be on the safe side."

    Rick also sent me some photos (they are pretty graphic) from the cave that I can post - I may need help with how to share on the thread from my e-mail files. There was animal (rat) activity that contributed to the difficulty in completing an accurate recon, so much of the right side of her face was missing. Should I get a mod to okay before posting these graphic photos? They are not meant for prime time.

    I will search through my notes & e-mail to share anything more that Rick gave me to help id this girl. I have a list of rule outs and possibles that I have been working on since July 2010.

    These are a few things that I can remember off the top of my head: Her stomach ulcers would have caused this girl significant pain, but the toxicology report was clean (no pain meds in system). Medical Examiner noted that these type of stomach erosions are many times associated with burn victims, chronic pain patient, or high stress life style; so this might provide a clue to her identity. There was no indication that this girl was a burn victim, however. The cause of death was undetermined. Rick and I spoke about dehydration, bleeding ulcers, etc. She was tucked in under a blanket of sorts, so someone could have been with her when she died or afterwards. There was much thought that she might have used the cave as a hide out; maybe she was running from or being hidden from someone?

    I will search through my notes & e-mail file to share anything more that Rick gave me to help id this girl. I have a list of rule outs and possibles that I have accumulated since July 2010. No match (obviously) so far.

    Thanks again Carl for this thread. I feel like I 'stalk' you on WS. We both seem drawn to the same type of cases (1980s; unidentified).

    ETA- I have sent copies of PM photos to Carl.
    Last Rule Out confirmed by Rick Jones on my submission of Michelle Duncan: We did rule out Michelle Duncan https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/5440 by dental x-rays as she was missing 2 teeth antemortem and our decedent has all of her teeth. Thanks to our cold case DNA Grant that we have, we had exhumed Jane "Cave Girl" Doe and we now have a DNA Profile and it has been entered into CODIS. No match yet, but still hopeful and still submitting possible matches.

    Sorry- my post is turning into a novel.

    I found my list of confirmed rule outs:
    Cynthia Mae Schmidt from St. Cloud MN
    Veronica Helen Brewer from Missouri City Texas
    Sheri Swims from Dade County PD
    Julianne Jaillett from King County Washington
    Amanda Fravel from LV, NV
    Collins, Kathryn Elizabeth Texas
    Michelle Duncan from Los Angeles, CA
     
  18. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Thanks for all the information, Nola! Clicking on the "thanks" button didn't seem like enough. When you spoke with Rick Jones, did you get any information about any more UID's from Clark County besides Cave Girl and Arroyo Grande Jane Doe? If Cave Woman was a chronic pain patient, she would probably have some sort of pain meds in her system, otherwise I doubt that she could have gotten into the cave on her own, it just would have been too painful for her to bend and stoop etc.
     
  19. nola

    nola New Member

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    Ambercat - I'm glad to contribute. I wish that I had seen this thread sooner... sorry for my oversight.

    I do have some information about Sahara Jane Doe. Sahara Jane was found stabbed in a Vegas parking lot of a closed casino back in 1979. Timing and use of a knife in this case (as in AGJD) of course, lead our conversation to Sahara Jane.


    Regarding Cave Girl, in trying to id her, I have looked closely at what I think makes her stand out -- and that is IMHO the severe stomach ulcerations- Here are some stress ulcers risk factors:

    -The major risk factors are respiratory failure, coagulopathy, sepsis, hypotension and hepatic and renal failure. Childhood burn patients can develop stomach ulcers, called Curling's ulcers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curling's_ulcer
    -NSAID/aspirin use (taken for pain) can eat a hole clear through your intestinal lining.
    -Helicobacter pylori infection - curable now, but not typically understood in the 80s
    -Alcohol use and Smoking

    The fact that she had such severe ulceration means that she would have been in great pain - how could she have gotten there without physical support is a great question. Untreated (clean tox), her circumstance and the pain she must have endured is so sad.

    I speculated with Rick that perhaps she was suicidal (as is the case with many pain patient) and went to the cave to die. Maybe the cave was familiar to her and had a special meaning and that's why she choose that location to die. Maybe she carried enough food/ water, meds and supplies for a few days. We also talked about the idea that she could have had mental illness or drug use that made her paranoid; or was she was hiding out from some real threat, maybe she was running from the mob (after all, this was Vegas in the 80s). She could have had someone bringing her supplies as she hid out. Was she held captive there? Ultimately, she could have been left too long without food and water, dehydrated and died.

    It's such a sad and baffling case. And because of the scattering of the clothing and other items at and near the cave, it is not known for certain if all of the personal items belonged to the deceased. There was a wooden partition (gate-like) in the cave. Who built this? Was she being held there, imprisoned? Talk about human trafficking... ???

    For possible matches, I have looked for women (with at lease 1 child) with a history of drug use/ high risk life style, or severe medical or mental issues who had some motivation to live in a cave of her own free will or could have been held captive there.

    This is a strange case as there are not many missing women who match the physical description of this Jane Doe during this time frame. Maybe she was someone who lived on the streets for a while and was never reported missing.
     
  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Nola e-mailed me the photos of Cave Woman, and I did my own facial reconstruction.


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Note the mole on the chin when looking for possibles.
     
  21. nola

    nola New Member

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    Carl - this is beyond awesome. I had never noticed that the mark on her chin could be a mole. WOW!
     

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