NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by Cubby, Oct 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

    Messages:
    75,186
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
  2. Loading...


  3. shefner

    shefner Websleuth Member

    Messages:
    6,066
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks Cubby!
     
  4. SugarJames

    SugarJames Former Member

    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ditto.....:dance:
     
  5. Kelly_Robinson

    Kelly_Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You know it is obvious that there has been tons of work by people on this case. With respect to Steven's landlord and his past due rent. In Calfornia Steven would have not got much past thirty days past due or he would have been immediately given a "pay or quit notice," and if he didn't pay evictions proceedings would immediately start. Yes the LL might have been calling him but why after three months.

    The timeline, at least the one that i have access to, doesn't give the exact time. So I didn't know that most of his driving was at night.

    I did know that Steven was let go from matchbin, but I didn't know he was job hopping.

    Kelly
     
  6. Kelly_Robinson

    Kelly_Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Again I think that with the following comment that the landlord was being more easy then in other areas, that is why I made the comment that Steven may have not be sweating the rent.

    •"[SK] was a few months behind on rent but he was working with [my husband] on a plan to catch it up." (Source: landlady)


    Kelly
     
  7. carbuff

    carbuff There but for the grace of God go I

    Messages:
    18,954
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One of the things that we've noted in the past is that there's some inconsistency in the way the landlady (who was posting here for a while, if I recall correctly) presented the situation and the way her husband appeared to be hassling Steven. Not serious discrepancies, probably just disagreement about how to handle the situation -- but still interesting.

    Yes, the rental arrangements seem to have been pretty informal.
     
  8. Kelly_Robinson

    Kelly_Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The business that I work in, we do background checks on people for employment purposes and I suppose I could do that on Mr. Koecher. Some of the background checks that we do will tell us if a person has stayed in a motel or hotel in the past 90 days. That's how concise the software we use can be.

    Obviously if Mr. Koecher is living under an assumed name, then I am not sure how much it would help, but it might be worth considering.

    Kelly
     
  9. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brought from Thread #17:

    They were listed as the "emergency contact" on the rental form. I agree, it was a breach of confidentiality -- and fits in with the landlord's harassment of Steven.

    LL has apparently obtained a civil judgment against Z for nonpayment of rent (and stealing small appliances); but didn't file against SK. I could never figure out why.

    Understandably, scenarios that involve issues contrary to their family values or religious beliefs, haven't been especially welcomed. I don't think any family wants to entertain ideas like suicide, alternative lifestyles, purposely leaving his family or knowingly committing a crime.

    I've sensed, from the first, that they see him as an innocent who was unknowingly involved with something shady.

    His brother wrote "...we know a thousand different things that didn't happen to Steven but we still don't know the one thing that did happen" on the For Steven website, Information Page.

    Wish we knew what the thousand are. Outside of a UFO landing outside of the security video's camera range and hauling him off, there's not much I can rule out.
     
  10. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    LL knew Steven's parents had given him money to help pay the rent.
    Steven could have given the LL that money, but did not.
    LL continued to call daily, sometimes twice or three times.

    I don't call that "easy". I don't think Mrs LL knew how many times Mr LL was calling Steven.

    There were apparently some financial issues. Although LL was responsible to pay the utility bills, they did not, because the renters hadn't paid them. The utilities were threatened with shut-off.
     
  11. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Obviously, the LL had been trying to collect; we have one week's worth of phone records, that show his calls.

    It would have been dark when he left the temple, right?
    He arrived in Ruby Valley, at 11am the next morning (543 miles from St George).
    How could most of the driving *not* be during darkness?

    His known job history is on the timeline.
    We may have missed minor fill-in jobs.
     
  12. seekingsusan

    seekingsusan New Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Quoting Kelly from previous thread:

    Maybe Steven did feel on top of the world. He felt good enough to travel 500 miles to visit a woman who he hadn't confirmed was even home, perhaps hoping to rekindle a relationship with her. What type of rational person leaves their home in St. George at 2:15am for a 500 mile road trip, to visit a person who doesn't even live at the location he is traveling to? And assume that she will want to talk to him, renew a relationship, whatever? That to me is delusional. And if a person can stay manic for days or weeks, then you agree that by December 13th-14th (4 days later), Steven could have reached a deep depression?

    Yes. We know of at least one occasion that he was up all night (and all day) - driving to Ruby Valley. Because of his lack of close relationships (suggesting depression) we can't confirm much about Steven's last days. His neighbor did report seeing him leave the house on one occasion at 10:30pm...perhaps a sign of sleeplessness/mania (depression), but no one is sure if Steven returned home shortly after this sighting, perhaps after the neighbor had retired to bed.

    He was blowing every last dime on gasoline....to make trips that didn't make sense! Also (Laytonian - correct me if I have the wording off) Steven told a friend that he had broken up with a long term girlfriend because "God had told him she wasn't right for him." This doesn't raise too many flags with people familiar with Steven's faith. From what I understand, Mormons enjoy a close, personal relationship with God that isn't typical of other religions - again, correct me if I'm wrong. But it could fit your definition of "special communication with God."

    Perhaps the reason Steven wasn't looking for work (had unsent job applications in his room) was because he thought he had everything figured out. Someone looking in at Steven's life from the outside, however, would take a very different perspective.

    And I believe that Steven "came down."

    Thanks for your perspective. I have allegiance to almost every theory discussed here and the jury is still out on suicide. You will read time and again from Laytonian that we are trying to apply logic to the illogical - to me, Steven's inability to behave in ways that will remedy his financial troubles or address his lack of employment point to mental illness. I don't claim to be a psychologist, but many of us here have first hand (and second hand) experience with mental illness. It's safe to say we know - as much as you do - what we're talking about.
     
  13. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One of the most informative posts we've had about Steven, came from his good friend gsmith. I'll quote a bit, but it's good to read the entire post (click here).
    He was looking for the perfect girl for him. I think his regret was that he passed up on a relationship because she wasn't the prettiest girl. Later he realized it was a mistake to have not pursued her more. I don't know which girl he was referring to though.

    He broke up with a gal around the end of 2008 which seemed perfect for him. He told me she had everything he wanted. For some reason he thought it just wasn't right. God was telling him it hasn't right. I encouraged him to just continue the relationship and see what happened. However he decided to end it anyway. His biggest sadness came from that event and the fact he felt he was being left behind. Most of his friends had gotten married and he was single approaching 30.​

    I may be off-base, but I believe the second girl is AN. The time fits, and it seems he had a need to talk to her a year later. Yes, I believe that was a manic action -- because he knew they'd met in SLC. He should have known she was living in SLC (and maybe he first dropped in there?). I've seen her in person, and she's lovely as well as talented. She's a musician, as Steven aspired to be.

    He disappeared, not long after his 30th birthday. Shortly after his brother's child had been born. Everyone else in the family was "settled in". It's almost like he was trying to quickly make up for lost time.

    gsmith has insights into Steven, that are especially valuable. As a friend, he was able to describe Steven in a way we could relate to, and in loving ways that even Steven's family was unable to express.

    You can read ALL of gsmith's WS posts by CLICKING HERE. Start at the bottom (the first post) and work up.
     
  14. sbakker

    sbakker New Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Everyone has great thoughts, and ideas. And many of us assume, because SK did the things he did, we have a possible answer.

    My husband and I when we were younger, would go for a coke, or treat at 11-1130p.m. Also we diowned a janitorial business, and checked the work late at night-sometimes 1AM. i always wondered what neighbors thought. We are not manic etc.

    We can assume sk was on his last dime, but do not know that for sure. maybe a source of money was coming from someone.


    I have friends, former son-in-law, that do not seem to worry alot about finding a job. They know if they really NEED the money-they can get it from family, church etc.


    I have gotten in a car, just drove around to think, get ideas, clear my mind.

    I am just saying we all do things that others think are "weird", or its a sign something is wrong. We can read what we want into any situation.

    Yes, I have a sister who is bi-polar. Nobody would really know. Other than those CLOSE to her. But if people looked at my life, doing things I did, they could read alot of diagnosis on me.
     
  15. seekingsusan

    seekingsusan New Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just to be clear, I'm not assuming anything. I don't claim my ideas are any better or any more accurate than anyone else's ideas. Surely you can see that going out for a snack at 11pm is a little different than driving 500 miles to visit a woman who he hadn't bothered to pick up the phone and call first. And taking a drive to clear one's mind is different than taking a 1100 mile road trip.

    We don't know everything about Steven's financial situation, but from what we do know (behind on rent, no job, getting money from parents) times were tough. And we have a pretty good idea that Steven's pride might have gotten in the way of his asking for help (he was angry when his parents told him the LL had contacted them about back rent, he didn't cash grandma's check or use money deposited for rent from his mom, and we've talked about him getting help from the church, but he never did.)

    I'm not calling Steven's behavior weird, but from what we know, it may have been unusual, even for Steven. And, like I said before, I'm not qualified to diagnose him. I'm just here looking for answers and sharing ideas like everyone else.
     
  16. sbakker

    sbakker New Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We all come here, and put our heads together, and have wonderful ideas and theories, of what happened to sk, and why he did the things he did.

    It is not unusual for my husband and I, take rides at 10-11pm, to go get treats or a drink. My kids arer just like us. They are grown and have families. We would take naps in the late afternoon.

    And him looking for a job, he knew there were back up people to help if he needed money. family, maybe friends. I had a son-in-aw (former) who just mosied around looking for a job. He had a college degree, was very shy, not real confident. many thought he was lazy-thats how some perceived him, that did not know him.

    As I have said before, I have a sis who is bi-polar. She keeps pretty much to her self. Looking at my life, and hers, people may think we were the ones with mental illness. We can read anything into anything we want, especially if we do not know all the circumstances.
    We owned a janitorial business, and would check buildings at midnight, or after.

    Often when I was young, i would drive my car for miles, just because it was relaxing, I enjoyed it, did it impromptu.
    Who knows if he was blowing his last dime on gas? We do not know if he was making money on the side somewhere.
     
  17. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Heh. ;) You could do the same with me. We could all see things and diagnose each other, yet I like "quirky".

    Steven, to me, did have some sort of problem. Not a major mental illness, but something that affected his decision-making. Religion? Anxiety? Increasing hopelessness?

    He just seemed to be on a downward spiral, after leaving the Tribune job.
    He spoke of the "worldly" atmosphere, but would unshakeable faith be bothered by that?

    I spoke to Steven's boss at the Trib, and his coworkers all liked him. They said he was smart and funny, and took their teasing well. But did he tease back, or just take teasing personally? Did the teasing seem like bullying to him? Something there was very uncomfortable, besides the night shift, cold winters, and "worldliness". According to gsmith, he "couldn't stand a few more days" and left.

    Or was the "worldly" atmosphere causing him to doubt his beliefs?
     
  18. sbakker

    sbakker New Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As i have said before, I have a daughter with autism, but I also work in the public school system. I work with some who have asphergers (in the autism spectrum) If you do not know what to look for, people would never know that they had a disability. Many are social, very bright, can function with others in social scenes, will start conversations, but the more you are around them, you see they are different. I actually have a relative who has been married over 25 yrs. has kids, very good job (makes good money) Everyone in the family thought he was cold, into himself, uncaring,lazy- just recently diagnosed with Asphergers-
     
  19. laytonian

    laytonian New Member

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You also have personal insight into Steven; did you ever see similar symptoms in him? (In some ways, I can - but you're more experienced.)

    OT:
    It's amazing how creative the autistic can be; I'm sure you know that the boy who disappeared in August (and caused the helicopter search over the neighborhoods) did it again -- and made his way to a bakery in Ogden. Unhappily, the store was closed at 12:30am so he called police for help.
    I was afraid I'd wake up this morning, and find out that his was the body found in Kays Creek, by our optometrist's office.
     
  20. Kelly_Robinson

    Kelly_Robinson New Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You know, you guys knew or know Steven Koecher and I don't. I am a totally third party observer and don't know the intricacies to his personality. Please understand I am in no way second guessing anyone here, I am just trying to throw out some ideas. Steven Koecher wouldn't know me anymore then the man on the moon, as I have never met the man.

    Also everything I say is based on general principles of psychology and my personal experience working with people and observation. Without going into too much detail my job, it is to read people and make an overall determination based on certain stimuli and information they provide to me. I know that sounds a little vague as I am staying vague on purpose as not to allow my co-workers to indentify who is writing this. It's not that big of a deal, but I just want to keep things professional and not enmesh my personal life with my professional life.

    With that being said, everything that I have said is never a hard and fast rule. I am very impressed with all the hard work and astute comments that are being made in this forum.

    I am writing this because I am hoping that I am not coming across as arrogant or as a "know-it-all," as I hope I am neither. If I can help I certainly will.

    Now having made that disclaimer and I can't fully explain it other then to say it's intuition, I would be shocked to find out that Mr. Koecher commited suicide. With regards to his actions, I have not read anythign that jumps out at me from the screen. Unfortunately job hopping nowadays is common, the multiple applications at his house not filled out may only indicate that he had not gotten around to it.

    Laytonian has brought up some valid points and it appears that she is taking many pieces and attempting to put this "puzzle" together. I use the term "puzzle" losely because we are talking about someone's life and it is not a game or hobby.

    Something keeps telling me in the back of my mind, that he didn't get lost, he didn't commit suicide, he didn't have an accident, but that somehow he met with someone who did him harm, I am sure of it.

    Kelly
     
  21. sbakker

    sbakker New Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Okjay, I am really sorry, what a mess of post I have here! Something is wrong with the computor. So i kept trying to send my messages out.Sorry it took most of a thread!

    No seekingsusan, i was not trying tosay anything against you, but just how we can all see things through our eyes, which others may see differently. Sorry, it came accross differently(on all the things i wrote-sorry)

    KELLY-I want to tell you, I do not feel you are being arrogant. Nice to have more insight.
    And I also want you to know, I do not think he commited suicide, ran away for a new life, but someone harmed him. Like you, I feel sure about it.

    I think the people that harmed him took advantage of him because he was naieve, honest, and could easily been taken advantage of . Someone he worked for, or someone in his church he worked with, or a neighbor. Obviously, they knew him better than others. He did not have close friends in St George (unknown if he did). So those are the people that knew how naieve he was.

    My theory-and I am sticking to it!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice