NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 6

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I am by now almost convinced that Steven did have a job related appointment in the Anthem area. Nothing formal, just a casual "why don't you drop by around noonish on Sunday with your resume ?" kind of thing. I also think he was not comfortable with the situation, hence him sitting in his car for,what,about 3-4 minutes ? That may not have been appointment time related,it could have been Steven's instincts telling him not to go. But, he was pretty desperate by then .... I believe he met someone,got into a conversation about jobs, and they lured him.

With a car stuffed full of "numerous job applications", what else could he have been doing there?
 
With a car stuffed full of "numerous job applications", what else could he have been doing there?

getting ready to do the vanishing act

back to my original train of thought . . . the whole thing smells of a cover-up

until im convinced otherwise everyone in his circle is suspect.

SK may have been unwittingly been brought in as an integral part of some scheme by someone in his inner circle w/c had gotten out of hand and would have brought shame and embarassenet to everyone or WORSE, and now he is being hidden maybe even in another country till things quiet down and then his "discovery" will conveniently bring him back to a lot of fanfare of course or he could just stay away hidden for ever.
 
theres a saying i was taught 20 years ago and it still works today

during an investigation : "BELIEVE NOTHING THAT THEY TELL YOU . . . AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT THEY SHOW YOU"
 
theres a saying i was taught 20 years ago and it still works today

during an investigation : "BELIEVE NOTHING THAT THEY TELL YOU . . . AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT THEY SHOW YOU"

I was taught something, many years ago, regarding conspiracies: "Only one person can keep a secret."
 
Actually....I mentioned payday lenders back on Jan 27th, but I didn't get much response ;)

Maybe you have to call them "loan sharks" to get attention here...but you're not going to find a "loan shark" in Utah, because they've already been legalized as payday loan stores.

It shouldn't be hard for the family or LE to check the payday loan companies in Utah, to see if he had an account. (It'd take an attorney and a subpoena.)

Hi laytonian! I started to reply when you first posted about payday lenders, but didn't since I don't know how much they differ from state to state. (and they are illegal in some states as well) Anyway, I worked in 'title loans' for about 8 years until recently. I never worked in 'payday loans', but the company I worked for did that as well. Both are high APR to be sure and should never be used if there is an alternative and unfortunately as much as I hated the collection aspect of the business, they are what I called a "necessary evil" for many people including myself at times.

What I wanted to say though is that in SC anyway, these companies are heavily regulated by the same state agency (Dept. of Consumer Affairs) that regulate all financial institutions. In my experience it's not the same as it once was, even though at times, a poor manager may sound quite threatening at times..that's just what it is..a threat. (which IS against the law btw) In SC for example a payday lender has NO recourse anymore, as it is illegal to accept a post dated check. So if someone stops payment or closes the account..too bad so sad! You are usually looking at an amount borrowed anywhere from $50.00 -$600.00, so not HUGE amounts anyway.

Now loan sharks do still exist, I don't personally know of one..but I have heard stories. Wonder if Steven would have occasion to meet or be introduced to someone like that. THAT would be a whole 'nother ballgame imo.. JMHO and :twocents:...

I am SO impressed by everyones work here and I can sure understand the frustration y'all must feel. If I ever disappear (Heaven forbid!) I can only pray my family would stumble across such dedicated sleuths!
 
and by the way when was NAEGLE'S last post? hhmmmm?

and i did view a video of the parents getting interviewed by a news station and their body language does not compute!
 
Hi laytonian! I started to reply when you first posted about payday lenders, but didn't since I don't know how much they differ from state to state. (and they are illegal in some states as well) Anyway, I worked in 'title loans' for about 8 years until recently. I never worked in 'payday loans', but the company I worked for did that as well. Both are high APR to be sure and should never be used if there is an alternative and unfortunately as much as I hated the collection aspect of the business, they are what I called a "necessary evil" for many people including myself at times.

What I wanted to say though is that in SC anyway, these companies are heavily regulated by the same state agency (Dept. of Consumer Affairs) that regulate all financial institutions. In my experience it's not the same as it once was, even though at times, a poor manager may sound quite threatening at times..that's just what it is..a threat. (which IS against the law btw) In SC for example a payday lender has NO recourse anymore, as it is illegal to accept a post dated check. So if someone stops payment or closes the account..too bad so sad! You are usually looking at an amount borrowed anywhere from $50.00 -$600.00, so not HUGE amounts anyway.

Now loan sharks do still exist, I don't personally know of one..but I have heard stories. Wonder if Steven would have occasion to meet or be introduced to someone like that. THAT would be a whole 'nother ballgame imo.. JMHO and :twocents:...

I am SO impressed by everyones work here and I can sure understand the frustration y'all must feel. If I ever disappear (Heaven forbid!) I can only pray my family would stumble across such dedicated sleuths!

It sounds like SC is far ahead of Utah, regarding the "sharks" ;) They're still trying to get some regulation through the state legislature here. There's a consumer guide, but it doesn't explain the actual difficulties.

I've never used one, but when my son-in-law's truck faced an expensive repair, he just turned it in to a title loan place and told 'em to "keep it".

Just let us know where you are, when you disappear....and we'll be right there. Do NOT attempt to disappear without instructions ;)

Stick around. We need more heads to share the headaches with.
 
and by the way when was NAEGLE'S last post? hhmmmm?

and i did view a video of the parents getting interviewed by a news station and their body language does not compute!

Naegle has limited internet, so we've been using the "family contact" set up last month (which means I basically act as the conduit, and relay info back and forth).

Just because you don't see her here often, doesn't mean anything.
 
Actually....I mentioned payday lenders back on Jan 27th, but I didn't get much response ;)

Maybe you have to call them "loan sharks" to get attention here...but you're not going to find a "loan shark" in Utah, because they've already been legalized as payday loan stores.

It shouldn't be hard for the family or LE to check the payday loan companies in Utah, to see if he had an account. (It'd take an attorney and a subpoena.)


See that's just it tho, loan sharks don't write it down and leave a paper trail for LE or lawyers.

I so hope he would go to his parents for help, before this kind of thinking. Why would he do that? That would tell me more than a $1,000 in debt. Then we would be talking gambling or a lost drug payment, etc. Not good.
 
See that's just it tho, loan sharks don't write it down and leave a paper trail for LE or lawyers.

I so hope he would go to his parents for help, before this kind of thinking. Why would he do that? That would tell me more than a $1,000 in debt. Then we would be talking gambling or a lost drug payment, etc. Not good.

In Utah, all you need is a valid checking account to get a payday loan....but you can make the payments in cash. So if he took out an "easy" loan six months ago, it might have been overlooked while the balance grew.

All I know, is that it's the first place "kids" go, when they need money...because they don't read the fine print and know they can pay it back on payday. But they forget that on payday, they now owe even more.

I hope he didn't get into something like that.
 
HollyBlue,
A poster here, Fairy1, works for the casino industry.She did check, and Steven has no known history of gambling. No one has ever indicated that he used drugs.No drug paraphanalia was found at his apartment ( that we have been told about). Thing is, I believe he would have asked either his mother or his sister for help before he got involved with a "loan shark".
 
back to the video . . .

in times of stress (missing son) the parents normal body language would be very close physical contact with each other and the "reassurance circle of protectiveness" ie husband has arm around wife's shoulder and their hands are holding each other legs crossed towards each other etc good sleuths know what i mean. there was none of this during the interview and its interesting how the camera kept doing close up of their hands which they kept to themeselves and each had their hands clenching themeselves. theres also a segment where the wife is looking towards her husband as he is speaking and her facial expressions are more frowning ( eye brows together - forehead frowning - corners of lips cureld downward as if in dissapproval or "you're about to or are saying something you'll regret" but the newscaster is speaking so you cant hear what the husband is saying - darn it i wish we could hear what he's saying.

and theres mention of SK being mentally younger than his age - how much younger? and there is a big difference between mentally younger and intellectualy younger w/c one is it? or did they mean emotionally younger? now we're talking BIG difference.

then there is the question of loss and gain. who would have or could have gained from SK'S demise or disappearance- and what kind of gain would it have been.

after all these years its funny how the list of the usual suspects still is and will always be - the usual suspects!
 
HollyBlue,
A poster here, Fairy1, works for the casino industry.She did check, and Steven has no known history of gambling. No one has ever indicated that he used drugs.No drug paraphanalia was found at his apartment ( that we have been told about). Thing is, I believe he would have asked either his mother or his sister for help before he got involved with a "loan shark".

I don't think he'd ask...nor do I think he did.

He was trying to pretend everything was OK, and got caught when the landlord left the mesage on his parents' phone.

Right after that, things went to he!! in his life....as far as aimless driving and ignoring his job.

A few days later, his mother told him she'd deposit money in his account -- but it didn't sound like he'd asked her to. In fact, just the opposite....and we know he never touched it.

---------

The casinos don't know that you gamble, unless you cash checks there, use credit, a credit card or have one of those silly club cards that you stick into the machine. NOW....someone who runs a tab, they're "known". They have no idea who you are, if you use cash.
 
But, in terms of loss and grief, there is no cookie cutter "correct" way of reacting.We are all individuals, with complex emotional responses.And stress hormones muddy the waters even more. I think Steven Koecher's parents are trying to make sense of a senseless event : the vanishing of their son. Reading about him led me to the conclusion that he was probably " younger" than his chronological years, and thus even more vulnerable. I hope he is reunited with his family soon. JMO
 
Laytonian,
Those are all good points about SK and money. But, I somehow cannot see him going to a loanshark ....
 
Laytonian,
Those are all good points about SK and money. But, I somehow cannot see him going to a loanshark ....

But they're not called "loan sharks".

They have friendly names like Money Train, CheckCity. They're in every strip mall. They advertise on TV.

Here's an article from the pro-business Deseret News, talking about how things are such a mess here in Utah, the payday lenders are clogging up the small claims courts.
 
okay i just read the timeline again.

im convinced that the deception or "switch" of identity happened after SK'S visit to the AN ranch.

SK met with his lookalike - they switched vehicles - SK went to Sacramento (freudian slip during his AN ranch visit) - his car driven by his lookalike goes the opposite way and intentionaly creates the paper trail which makes no sense because its not supposed to - makes appearances just enough so some people can "identify" him ( at night at his house and on a grainy video wearing a hoodie - really?) and the rest are all smoke and mirrors. but the question is - WHY? - what is the MOTIVE?

"DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY TELL YOU AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO SEE"
 
Laytoniam,
Okay, let's say that he took a payday loan, and couldn't pay it back. And ...? What ? What do you think might have happened next ?
 
back to the video . . .

in times of stress (missing son) the parents normal body language would be very close physical contact with each other and the "reassurance circle of protectiveness" ie husband has arm around wife's shoulder and their hands are holding each other legs crossed towards each other etc good sleuths know what i mean. there was none of this during the interview and its interesting how the camera kept doing close up of their hands which they kept to themeselves and each had their hands clenching themeselves. theres also a segment where the wife is looking towards her husband as he is speaking and her facial expressions are more frowning ( eye brows together - forehead frowning - corners of lips cureld downward as if in dissapproval or "you're about to or are saying something you'll regret" but the newscaster is speaking so you cant hear what the husband is saying - darn it i wish we could hear what he's saying.

and theres mention of SK being mentally younger than his age - how much younger? and there is a big difference between mentally younger and intellectualy younger w/c one is it? or did they mean emotionally younger? now we're talking BIG difference.

then there is the question of loss and gain. who would have or could have gained from SK'S demise or disappearance- and what kind of gain would it have been.

after all these years its funny how the list of the usual suspects still is and will always be - the usual suspects!

I so agree with you. I picked up on the hands and body posture, but missed the facial expressions on Mrs. Koecher. I must go back and check. I know on the last interview w/ Charles and Judy Cox (Susan Powell), the mother is very angry with Josh Powell. I think it is one of the reasons she has not been in the public before, but now that Charles has become more skeptical and challenging to Josh, she's there to put her two cents in also. I also think she is the reason they are not taking advantage of the "visitation" of the boys being extended. Very strong willed woman.

The mental age of Steven has never been broken down, that I know of by the family, but I would guess--emotionally. JMO

On the - who would have the most to gain, or lose, depending on how you look it, I'm working on a theory, but not ready to come forward with it yet.

Off to view the video again....
 
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