NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 9

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No thought that he would head down to Louisiana to see where PM went to school and where he lived until his death? I know this seems strange....but we have been in strange areas before. There is also a monastery nearby.
 
What about a communal setting. Could he have went to something like this. Just throwing out suggestions.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/jun/24/bn24found112551/?metro&zIndex=121933

Very well could be. I think someone mentioned this a few days ago??? I don't know of any groups like this around Vegas or Henderson, but why would I? There was a happening swingers house just a few blocks away from here that got busted a couple of years ago and I didn't know about that either! :crazy:
 
If he did, this is something totally off the radar. These kind of communals don't have any links to the outside....normally.

Truthfully, Steven is totally off the radar, so who's to say where he may be?
 
From an LDS perspective there are several things that bother me about Steven's disappearance. Usually when someone is leaving the church (or going on a spiritual quest of some kind) it is a gradual process. Many times temple attendance stops, then the person stops taking "callings" (jobs in the church), and then stops attending meetings regularly. These things did not happen in Steven's case. He went to the temple just before he disappeared, he was serving in the Elders Quorum, he attended church regularly. Then one day it all stopped abruptly. Why would he voluntarily disappear? Sorry, to ramble here, but I am perplexed like many of you. Things just do not make sense to me.
 
From an LDS perspective there are several things that bother me about Steven's disappearance. Usually when someone is leaving the church (or going on a spiritual quest of some kind) it is a gradual process. Many times temple attendance stops, then the person stops taking "callings" (jobs in the church), and then stops attending meetings regularly. These things did not happen in Steven's case. He went to the temple just before he disappeared, he was serving in the Elders Quorum, he attended church regularly. Then one day it all stopped abruptly. Why would he voluntarily disappear? Sorry, to ramble here, but I am perplexed like many of you. Things just do not make sense to me.

bbm

That would be the best case scenario, he voluntarily disappeared, because any other scenario, means he is no longer with us.
 
I need to get something off my chest. The impression I get from this recent article is. "See, we checked everything out and it's all groovy. Move along folks, nothing to see here"

They only want to see things a certain way and they want us to see it that way too.
 
I didn't get that impression at all. Excellent article about a puzzling disappearance imo.

Every family and loved ones of a disappeared person would want an article like this at a low moment like this, as the article states, disappeared before Christmas and here it is Easter with no clue.

rd
 
It could be anything! IIRC, there are more churches, per capita, in Las Vegas than in any other US city. Go figure.

Really? How odd! Or perhaps logical? I'm surprised.

Very well could be. I think someone mentioned this a few days ago???
About the CA avocado farm? That was me :blushing: but I think it's a possibility, given the excerpts that were quoted. I wouldn't think leaving your car in some random (or not) place in SCA would help in getting to an off-grid, out of the way commune/farm, though.

Whoa....here is a list of communal living places to go:

http://directory.ic.org/iclist/geo.php

Whoa indeed! Isn't the internet grand? Now if only Steven would post to his Facebook account so we know where he is!
 
It could be anything! IIRC, there are more churches, per capita, in Las Vegas than in any other US city. Go figure.

I just googled "more churches per capita", and you'd be amazed at the cities who claim that. But...it doesn't mean variety ;)

I floated the FLDS theory here long ago and got shut down pretty quick. But honestly, they're throwing young men out of there regularly, so I can't see them recruiting Steven. I was thinking more along the lines of putting him to work as a cover for their various business interests.

They really don't cover their business interests. They're proud and wide-open. One group (in the Bear River area just north of Ogden) uses the women as telemarketers and the men run the farm.

The Kingstons own restaurant supplies, payday loan stores, and other businesses - with an estimated net worth of about $150 million. In their case, the men work, the women do not (but the women are children are all on "welfare").

The established groups don't recruit, especially men. They have too many men already. (Think about it.) Part of their belief is "purity", and they don't want their lineage spoiled. The Kingstons believe their lineage was given directly from God, so they are particularly intermarried. The Colorado City/Hildale (Warren Jeffs) group is pretty much the same, with so many intermarriages that birth defects and common and disgusting (one "baby" was described as "a tomato").

What usually happens when a person goes "fundamental" is they start their own group, fresh, with their own angle on fundamentalism. It's not illegal (because they're just all living together without true marriage) unless child sexual abuse is involved.
 
I wouldn't think leaving your car in some random (or not) place in SCA would help in getting to an off-grid, out of the way commune/farm, though.

Leaving your car behind anywhere, doesn't help you disappear (on your own) at all.
You don't have your stuff, you don't have your car.
You're now dependent on someone else.
Let's hope he is -- but how long would someone allow their new friend to be totally dependent? There has to be something in it for both parties.

Canyon1 would be familiar with "off the grid" people. They're not hiding (in fact, it seems many are kinda dependent on the community in one way or another).
 
I just googled "more churches per capita", and you'd be amazed at the cities who claim that. But...it doesn't mean variety ;)



They really don't cover their business interests. They're proud and wide-open. One group (in the Bear River area just north of Ogden) uses the women as telemarketers and the men run the farm.

The Kingstons own restaurant supplies, payday loan stores, and other businesses - with an estimated net worth of about $150 million. In their case, the men work, the women do not (but the women are children are all on "welfare").

The established groups don't recruit, especially men. They have too many men already. (Think about it.) Part of their belief is "purity", and they don't want their lineage spoiled. The Kingstons believe their lineage was given directly from God, so they are particularly intermarried. The Colorado City/Hildale (Warren Jeffs) group is pretty much the same, with so many intermarriages that birth defects and common and disgusting (one "baby" was described as "a tomato").

What usually happens when a person goes "fundamental" is they start their own group, fresh, with their own angle on fundamentalism. It's not illegal (because they're just all living together without true marriage) unless child sexual abuse is involved.

Uh, that book about his relatives in southern Utah...was he trying to find a group he had a blood claim to?

Did he take any of the books with him?
 
Now if only Steven would post to his Facebook account so we know where he is!

Except it's "private", so he may have done so and only the "friended" people could see it.
 
Uh, that book about his relatives in southern Utah...was he trying to find a group he had a blood claim to?

Basically, yes -- that's the purpose of LDS family research. Obviously, someone else had already researched those people for them to be in a book. (Not sure exactly what a "blood claim" is, though.)

From the official LDS church website lds.org:
"Perform ordinances such as baptism in behalf of those who have died without the opportunity to receive the gospel, making it possible for those who choose to accept them to return to live one day with Heavenly Father."

"Members of the Church are actively involved in family history work. This work is to identify their ancestors and enable them to bind their families together for eternity in holy temples."

That's what Steven was doing at the temple on Dec 9th: "sealings".

Did he take any of the books with him?

You'd have to ask the library if he had overdue books ;)
 
I need to get something off my chest. The impression I get from this recent article is. "See, we checked everything out and it's all groovy. Move along folks, nothing to see here"

They only want to see things a certain way and they want us to see it that way too.

I heard from Naegle -- she said she wasn't ignoring us; she just had no answers and they're totally frustrated. She seemed really down. I'd asked what we could do to help, and she basically said they didn't know what they (themselves) could do to help. Everything's led to a brick wall.

Same as it has for us -- right? Imagine knowing all that they do, and it's still a brick wall.

The article wasn't investigative; it was written by the op-ed writer for the LDS-owned newspaper. In that scheme, the article was there to help the family. I hope it does.
 
Creepy! But that's JMOHO.

Creepy? I'm not sure how.
You'd be surprised how many people live "in groups". Call it a commune, a community, or just people renting a house and sharing the costs.

Destiny Norton (missing/murdered in SLC) family was a member of an informal group; they were pretty much all unemployed and pooled their government welfare/food stamps.

Wikipedia

To me, the creepy part was that for all of the adults in that group, none could be bothered to really watch the children closely. The CREEP who killed her, wasn't part of their commune.

And beware of people taking money in her name, whether they claim to be a "foundation" or anything else named for her.
 
Basically, yes -- that's the purpose of LDS family research. Obviously, someone else had already researched those people for them to be in a book. (Not sure exactly what a "blood claim" is, though.)

From the official LDS church website lds.org:
"Perform ordinances such as baptism in behalf of those who have died without the opportunity to receive the gospel, making it possible for those who choose to accept them to return to live one day with Heavenly Father."

"Members of the Church are actively involved in family history work. This work is to identify their ancestors and enable them to bind their families together for eternity in holy temples."

That's what Steven was doing at the temple on Dec 9th: "sealings".



You'd have to ask the library if he had overdue books ;)

Yes, I'm familiar with the concept of sealings.

You said the FLDS were into purity of the blood line, so I wondered whether Steven might have located a branch of his family that was involved in that lifestyle and -- apologies for being crude -- they could find a place for a devout young family member of healthy breeding age. We know Steven was bothered by all the worldliness around him. He might well have found the communal living under patriarchal authority to be appealing.

Maybe they said, "Just leave your car someplace where your parents will find it. You won't need it -- you'll be driving the family pickup if you go anywhere."
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the concept of sealings.

You said the FLDS were into purity of the blood line, so I wondered whether Steven might have located a branch of his family that was involved in that lifestyle and -- apologies for being crude -- they could find a place for a devout young family member of healthy breeding age. We know Steven was bothered by all the worldliness around him. He might well have found the communal living under patriarchal authority to be appealing.

Maybe they said, "Just leave your car someplace where your parents will find it. You won't need it -- you'll be driving the family pickup if you go anywhere."

Steven would be considered "impure" in the strict polygamist sense. They don't recruit, don't welcome outsiders (even if there's a link in the family tree).

The only way (as I understand it) that Steven could have joined an existing polygamy group, is if he was already part of that existing group and came with his own set of wives/children. He was 30, considered old. We know the Koecher family isn't polygamist (trust me, we'd know!) although they may have ancestors who were.

Polygs really don't care about "healthy breeding age" people. That's not the point. ANY man is competition for the established leaders. That's why they kick out so many young men (the lost boys).

They really don't care if the children come out OK or not. It's all God's will, and the lineage is kept pure.

Here's an interesting article which also has links to news stories about various "features" (ahem) of the structured polygamists.

Steven would have come from a "polluted" family tree. Polygamists' family tree doesn't fork (KWIM?)
 
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