NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

[dotr]

Yesterday I searched for her in the missing persons files from Finland, Zweden and Denmark...but (apart from the translation problems and the lack of central registration) i could not find a missing person who was matching with UD....frustrating, but I keep searching....also I looked up Slovanian missing people...(something to do with my investigations on the note) but still no hits.....

Coincidentally, this uid woman has been on my mind too, i have looked in every country's missing person databases i could find, some are very frustrating!
imo.

 

[Al Ka]

Her NamUs link - The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Her own FB page (maps of locations etc) - Log in or sign up to view

 

[Bit of hope]

In the last month I also looked up some wanted persons in different country's. I'm not sure about it.... the drawings, pictures of UID are confusing in comparing to some wanted women (and there are not a lot )

 

[Bit of hope]

Call me crazy....there is something with the nose and her lips (cupido) and her chin seems to have a little dimple, also moles. Question is how did she end up on a road in Ellery without a pantyhose/legging, thights and shoes in wintertime (snowstorms, cold rain)

Wanted by the FBIDonna Jean Borup

Alias:Rebecca Ann Morgan, Donna Borup, Donna Austopchuk
Real DOB unknown, 1952 NY
Description

Date(s) of Birth Used	August 5, 1952, March 5, 1947, April 10, 1950 In 1983 31, 36, 33 years
Place of Birth	South Amboy, New Jersey
Hair	Brown (May be Graying)
Eyes	Brown or Blue
Height	5'4" to 5'6" UID was 5’4”
Weight	160 to 170 pounds UID had less weight 128 pounds
Sex	Female
Race	White
Occupation	Previously worked in graphic design and silkscreening
Nationality	American
Scars and Marks	None known
I could not find anything about her having a child/children. Donna seems to have	a scarf trought her eyebrow. UID has groomed eyebrows.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2011/08/fbi_ask_for_help_in_finding_do.html

 

[dotr]

Call me crazy....there is something with the nose and her lips (cupido) and her chin seems to have a little dimple, also moles. Question is how did she end up on a road in Ellery without a pantyhose/legging, thights and shoes in wintertime (snowstorms, cold rain)

Wanted by the FBIDonna Jean Borup

Alias:Rebecca Ann Morgan, Donna Borup, Donna Austopchuk
Real DOB unknown, 1952 NY
Description

Date(s) of Birth Used	August 5, 1952, March 5, 1947, April 10, 1950 In 1983 31, 36, 33 years
Place of Birth	South Amboy, New Jersey
Hair	Brown (May be Graying)
Eyes	Brown or Blue
Height	5'4" to 5'6" UID was 5’4”
Weight	160 to 170 pounds UID had less weight 128 pounds
Sex	Female
Race	White
Occupation	Previously worked in graphic design and silkscreening
Nationality	American
Scars and Marks	None known
I could not find anything about her having a child/children. Donna seems to have	a scarf trought her eyebrow. UID has groomed eyebrows.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2011/08/fbi_ask_for_help_in_finding_do.html

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Phot...UICCgB&biw=1321&bih=628#imgrc=vYfsA15U4pTsRM:
Donna Jean Borup 1981

http://www.keywiki.org/Donna_Borup

She always maintained secrecy, and the FBI JTTF theorizes that she's either living in the United States or Canada, where could have worked as an artist, and has cultivated friendships in the gay and lesbian communities.

 

[Bit of hope]

Donna used following dates of birth August 5, 1952, March 5, 1947, April 10, 1950. The real date of birth is not known but probably 1952, NY This means that she would
be in the age range of UID.
Height Donna 5'4" - 5'6" UID 5'4'
Weight Donna 160 to 170 pounds UID had less weight 128 pounds

I could't find anything about Donna having a child/children as UID did give birth to at least 1 child.
Donna seems to have a scarf trought her eyebrow.UID has groomed eyebrows.

 

[Giucy]

I can't help but think about an Italian citizen.

1) the inexpensive piece of clothing bought at Capri and non exportable "She was wearing a white V - neck camisole (inexpensive) that was found to have been made in Carpi, Italy and non exportable" Carpi seems a typo. Capri is in Naples province.

2) Her familiarity with Austria and Germany can suggest someone who lived in Northern Italy, near the border. Like Trentino or Valle d'Aosta, but Piemonte and Lombardy is also likely.

3) Her skin color, hair and eyes might suggest also someone of Southern Italy who came to work in the Northern Italy.

ETA 4) I also saw that kind of handwriting from Italian people, in letters and such. Even Italian high school teens.


The IUD European made can also be used in Italy, so it doesn't rule out the hypothesis of an Italian lady.


The problem is that not all missing persons in Italy will be reported to Interpol. Especially in those days.


However, I'd like to know what is the "white V - neck camisole (inexpensive) that was found to have been made in Carpi, Italy and non exportable" brand name, because it will help narrow a potential field of research for ID.

Can someone call law enforcement for me and ask this info ? I have +5 hours of difference (when it's 12pm here, it's 7am in NY), which is difficult to manage. Thank you

In the meantime, I can call Penelope Italia and the TV program Chi l'ha visto.
Unfortunately, Chi l'ha visto started in 1989, so years later after this case. But it might worth a try. (and I speak enough Italian to do it myself)

 

[Giucy]

I contacted Ms Gollinucci from the Italian association Penelope : http://www.penelopeitalia.org.
I emailed her the DN page. She'll contact their lawyer : the association can then contact the county's LE and obtain more info than I'll be able to.

Will update you as soon as I hear back from this Italian association. If she emails me, I'll copy paste it + translate it into English (I'll receive the info in Italian).

 

[Giucy]

Yesterday I searched for her in the missing persons files from Finland, Zweden and Denmark...but (apart from the translation problems and the lack of central registration) i could not find a missing person who was matching with UD....frustrating, but I keep searching....also I looked up Slovanian missing people...(something to do with my investigations on the note) but still no hits.....

I really think that she was not from northern Europe., nor a communist country.

The mole above her eyebrow or odd places is more common on people from southern Europe than northern. The way she was dressed makes me think of a woman from a wealthy background.
Milan, Rome or Turin, although Milan seems the likeliest.

For her birthing a child 15 years earlier, it can be explained by giving the child in adoption, as single mothers were frowned upon. She was a teen having a child out of the wedlock, hence decided to give anonym birth and give her child to adoption. Now, Italy accept much more single mothers and births out of the wedlock than in those days.

 

[Bit of hope]

She could be from Italian descent, I agree. I looked up all the persons on Chi l'ha visto a time ago..but could not find a match.... My file is getting bigger and bigger..but still not a sure feeling...

 

[Giucy]

Hum hum, Chi l'ha Visto started only in 1989, and finding cases before this date is eeeeeery difficult. So, not finding a match on Chi l'ha visto site doesn't rule out anything.

For this very reason, I contacted Penelope Italia. They are in contact with LE and official people involved in finding missing and UID. They are in better place for finding if there is a case in the official databases before 1989, or not.
I can also write to CLV (Chi L'ha Visto) myself, but they'll probably send me to Penelope Italia anyway.

So, let wait for Ms Gollinucci's reply before ruling out this possibility. Finding in the databases by ourselves is fraught with incomplete information for sure.

I really ask you to wait for any update with Ms Gollinucci before ruling out Italian origin. She can access info we won't be able to get otherwise.

BTW, could you contact associations in the countries you already checked the databases ? They'll be able to access more info than you can get on the web as a member of the public.
Best way for a check IMO

 

[Giucy]

I looked up all the persons on Chi l'ha visto a time ago..but could not find a match.... My file is getting bigger and bigger..but still not a sure feeling...

If I were you, I would directly contact the associations for missing and UID in the countries you think about.

The case is quite old, and it was way before Internet. So, don't rely too much on what you can find online because you'll end up disappointed.
In such case, put yourself in contact with charities for missing and UID persons because they work closely with LE and ME, so they can get info you won't (easily) access through the web, by yourself. For the countries you worked before, if I were you, I would contact the charities in said countries to see what they say. In a few words, you need a fresh start.
Then, you can report the answer here, in this thread.
Charities are more open to independent citizens requests than are LE and ME. So, starting there can be extremely valuable : you'll be surprised with the breadth and depth of info you get from these charities you can't (easily) get otherwise.
It doesn't prevent you from working on Websleuths !! Websleuths and charities complete each other, they are not in a contest.
Other than charities, we are running out of solutions.


For contacting Italian charities and Chi l'ha visto, I take care of it. So, you don't need to work on this task, and you'll get overworked unproductively.

 

[Bit of hope]

If I were you, I would directly contact the associations for missing and UID in the countries you think about.

The case is quite old, and it was way before Internet. So, don't rely too much on what you can find online because you'll end up disappointed.
In such case, put yourself in contact with charities for missing and UID persons because they work closely with LE and ME, so they can get info you won't (easily) access through the web, by yourself. For the countries you worked before, if I were you, I would contact the charities in said countries to see what they say. In a few words, you need a fresh start.
Then, you can report the answer here, in this thread.
Charities are more open to independent citizens requests than are LE and ME. So, starting there can be extremely valuable : you'll be surprised with the breadth and depth of info you get from these charities you can't (easily) get otherwise.
It doesn't prevent you from working on Websleuths !! Websleuths and charities complete each other, they are not in a contest.
Other than charities, we are running out of solutions.


For contacting Italian charities and Chi l'ha visto, I take care of it. So, you don't need to work on this task, and you'll get overworked unproductively.

You are great and sweet! I agree on your suggestions

 

[Giucy]

Just talked to Ms Golinucci. I had to call another person at the association because Ms Golinucci is not feeling skilled enough at Internet. Both of the persons will be back to me as soon as the page is translated and getting news.

So, the page needs a good translation into Italian. Despite my knowledge of Italian and English, I really don't feel competent enough to do such translation by myself. Better if someone whom mother tongue is Italian does the job.

 

[Bit of hope]

Im going to try and get a hold of a friend who is very very good in Italian. Maybe she is willing to do it.

 

[Bit of hope]

I wonder if there is a morque picture of her after embalming (if they did it anyway)

 

[dotr]

I wonder if there is a morque picture of her after embalming (if they did it anyway)

Morgue photo here in this link, but you have probably already seen this one. This is a sketch of UID female.
193UFNY

 

[Bit of hope]

I did see them, already, but thanks. Also did see a foto a little bit more explicit. After embalming she would probably look more as she did before. I can see the mouth "thing", rebuilding is hard I think (she was shot in her mouth) But what about the nose...post-mortem"?....did she had this irraguler nose? and also you can see the fright on her face...makes it hard to match a nicely laughing lady.

 

[Bit of hope]

Dotr you seem to follow this case. What are your thoughts? Or don't you just have time to get ïnto it?

 

[Bit of hope]

Just talked to Ms Golinucci. I had to call another person at the association because Ms Golinucci is not feeling skilled enough at Internet. Both of the persons will be back to me as soon as the page is translated and getting news.

So, the page needs a good translation into Italian. Despite my knowledge of Italian and English, I really don't feel competent enough to do such translation by myself. Better if someone whom mother tongue is Italian does the job.

I did send my friend a mail with all the information, asking if she is willing/has the time to translate. I will keep you posted.