Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #2 *P. Hernandez guilty*

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NocturnalLady

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Pedro's family owned the bodega.

Which to me would explain alot of why they weren't more proactive about turning him in. They didn't want to be held liable for what their relation did on their property. It would have undoubtedly finished their business if that had come out.
 

osadelnorte

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Something has been bothering me about Etan's stats in his missing-persons registry. I noticed this when I read Lisa Cohen's book After Etan three years ago, and now that PH has confessed and told this story involving the fridge and the box, etc., I'm thinking there's a discrepancy in Etan's height. The poster and registry stats say he was 3 feet, 4 inches, or 40 inches tall. This is not likely, IMO. That's about the size of an average four-year-old boy, actually. My son, as I've mentioned before, is six years old and also weighs about 50 lbs like we know Etan did. But my son is more like 46-47 inches tall. He is pretty average for his age, both in height and weight. My point in all of this is that maybe it could cast a shadow on PH's story if the child were actually taller. Maybe it would mean it was more difficult to stuff his body in the fridge. The height thing has bothered me for a long time and now it's making me scratch my head a little more. But it could mean nothing at all too. I just really don't think he could have been only 40 inches tall and I wish the stats were more accurate...
 

snowhiteo

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^^^^ Maybe Etan was just short for his age?? I know in the full body shots we have seen of him in pics, he does appear on the short side. This may also account for nobody noticing him entering the bodega, could be that he was small and moved quickly and just didn't draw attention to himself that morning on the street.
 

osadelnorte

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^^^^ Maybe Etan was just short for his age?? I know in the full body shots we have seen of him in pics, he does appear on the short side. This may also account for nobody noticing him entering the bodega, could be that he was small and moved quickly and just didn't draw attention to himself that morning on the street.

That could very well be. Although I think that if he weighed 50 lbs at 40 inches, he'd appear a lot chubbier than he does in the pics we've seen. That would make him a pretty stocky little guy, IMO. Who knows...it's just something that bothers me a little.
 

fascination

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That could very well be. Although I think that if he weighed 50 lbs at 40 inches, he'd appear a lot chubbier than he does in the pics we've seen. That would make him a pretty stocky little guy, IMO. Who knows...it's just something that bothers me a little.

I thought 3 feet, 4 inches seemed unusually short for someone who was 6 years and 8 months old, too. It could be that the parents did not have precise knowledge of his height at the time of his disappearance, but a more current height should have been able to have been "guestimated" to within a couple of inches.
 

fascination

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Sunday night, I read a New York Post article in which it was mentioned that several family members believed that Pedro Hernandez is gay. For some reason, I wasn't able to find the article when I searched for it earlier on Monday; I thought I had bookmarked the article, but it could be that the article was "updated" or changed, and that part was edited out. As of 12 hours ago, a "Pedro Hernandez gay" search using the N.Y. Post search engine turned up nothing.

Pardon me if this has already been mentioned - perhaps I missed this as I was reading through the posts. If this is true or a valid suspicion, it could be significant - as it may have contributed to a motive to kill. I'm not necessarily suggesting that PH was/is an outright pedophile (though it's possible) - it's just that Etan could have presented what PH considered an opportunity to act on repressed homosexual desires. Or - struggles/torment regarding his sexuality could have contributed to his anger or rage. Little, vulnerable Etan - perhaps reminding PH of a part of himself that he couldn't accept - could have presented an opportunity to act on that rage.

(Not saying that repressed homosexuality alone turns men into murderers - but it could have definitely been in the mix as far as contributing to PH's mental state.)
 

Steely Dan

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Even that seems like it would merit a heads-up to police from at least one member. I just can't imagine that "hey I killed a kid" is a common prayer-group confession. Even in Camden.

(OT: I went to college in Rochester, lived in the 19th Ward. Eat a plate for me!)

I ate a plate the other day. :woohoo:

Something has been bothering me about Etan's stats in his missing-persons registry. I noticed this when I read Lisa Cohen's book After Etan three years ago, and now that PH has confessed and told this story involving the fridge and the box, etc., I'm thinking there's a discrepancy in Etan's height. The poster and registry stats say he was 3 feet, 4 inches, or 40 inches tall. This is not likely, IMO. That's about the size of an average four-year-old boy, actually. My son, as I've mentioned before, is six years old and also weighs about 50 lbs like we know Etan did. But my son is more like 46-47 inches tall. He is pretty average for his age, both in height and weight. My point in all of this is that maybe it could cast a shadow on PH's story if the child were actually taller. Maybe it would mean it was more difficult to stuff his body in the fridge. The height thing has bothered me for a long time and now it's making me scratch my head a little more. But it could mean nothing at all too. I just really don't think he could have been only 40 inches tall and I wish the stats were more accurate...

Here's some info on height and weight for a six year old; http://www.weightof.net/2012/01/average-weight-6-year-old.html

Average height for a 6 year old boy: 45 inches or 115 centimeters. 45 inches is 3 feet, 9 inches or 3.75 feet tall.
Average weight of a 6 year old boy is about 45 pounds or 20 kgs

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ve0eXilP6...s1600/ALeqM5hm4WGkujDETdwJr0U43YonT-GMOQ.jpeg

Etan was 40 inches and 50 pounds. That sounds about right to me.
 

RoseTree

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Something has been bothering me about Etan's stats in his missing-persons registry. I noticed this when I read Lisa Cohen's book After Etan three years ago, and now that PH has confessed and told this story involving the fridge and the box, etc., I'm thinking there's a discrepancy in Etan's height. The poster and registry stats say he was 3 feet, 4 inches, or 40 inches tall. This is not likely, IMO. That's about the size of an average four-year-old boy, actually. My son, as I've mentioned before, is six years old and also weighs about 50 lbs like we know Etan did. But my son is more like 46-47 inches tall. He is pretty average for his age, both in height and weight. My point in all of this is that maybe it could cast a shadow on PH's story if the child were actually taller. Maybe it would mean it was more difficult to stuff his body in the fridge. The height thing has bothered me for a long time and now it's making me scratch my head a little more. But it could mean nothing at all too. I just really don't think he could have been only 40 inches tall and I wish the stats were more accurate...


This actually has bothered me for a while too. My 4.5 year old is on the small side and is 40.5 inches tall. He is about in the 35th percentile for height. He is 36 pounds- so to add 14 pounds to his current height would make him pretty chunky and Etan didn't look chunky.

As a fun fact, my 2.5 year old is 38 inches tall. I find it highly unlikely that Etan was 40 inches tall.
 

fascination

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In reading some of these articles that have come with the media frenzy, I've noticed one guy who seems to have a remarkable knack for recalling certain implicating details of at least two of the suspects in this case. In this article, Roberto Monticello - who was allegedly a teenager who was living in SoHo when Etan disappeared - shares what he remembers of PH in 1979. Monticello is able to recall that PH was "civil but reserved and 'pent-up'" - and that he never helped in the neighborhood efforts to search for Etan despite always being around (relevant section is on page 3):

http://www.courierpostonline.com/ar...305270025/Slaying-suspect-seen-shy-suspicious

About a month ago, the same guy was able to recall that Jose Ramos as a "malignant presence on Prince Street" - remembering how JR would bum around the area and panhandle (I linked to this article before):

http://www.nydailynews.com/-article-1.1065529#ixzz1sjSJlzlo

Now maybe this guy really did "get around" in SoHo back then and has these rich memories of these "menacing" SoHo regulars - but I was skeptical of this guy's memory even a month ago. I could very well be wrong - but his comments come off as those of an embellisher who wants to put himself in the thick of this saga. I wonder if LE has checked him out? Not necessarily for possible involvement in Etan's kidnapping/murder - but just to see how truthful his memories are. Is this guy for real?

This may be no big deal - but it's just something that stood out to me as a bit suspicious.
 

Steely Dan

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Sunday night, I read a New York Post article in which it was mentioned that several family members believed that Pedro Hernandez is gay. For some reason, I wasn't able to find the article when I searched for it earlier on Monday; I thought I had bookmarked the article, but it could be that the article was "updated" or changed, and that part was edited out. As of 12 hours ago, a "Pedro Hernandez gay" search using the N.Y. Post search engine turned up nothing.

Pardon me if this has already been mentioned - perhaps I missed this as I was reading through the posts. If this is true or a valid suspicion, it could be significant - as it may have contributed to a motive to kill. I'm not necessarily suggesting that PH was/is an outright pedophile (though it's possible) - it's just that Etan could have presented what PH considered an opportunity to act on repressed homosexual desires. Or - struggles/torment regarding his sexuality could have contributed to his anger or rage. Little, vulnerable Etan - perhaps reminding PH of a part of himself that he couldn't accept - could have presented an opportunity to act on that rage.

(Not saying that repressed homosexuality alone turns men into murderers - but it could have definitely been in the mix as far as contributing to PH's mental state.)

I'm not sure I agree with your logic, but here's the link to the article; http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/waiting_for_killer_to_snap_c9eI26iqgDtq7in0NcN3gO/1
 

RoseTree

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Which to me would explain alot of why they weren't more proactive about turning him in. They didn't want to be held liable for what their relation did on their property. It would have undoubtedly finished their business if that had come out.

I thought that the family had previously reported his involvement to police and were ignored. Im going to try to find a link.
 

NocturnalLady

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I thought that the family had previously reported his involvement to police and were ignored. Im going to try to find a link.

Yes, I read one of them said they had gone to the police about a year after the crime and they were dismissed. Supposedly there is no documentation of this attempt to report to the police. Hopefully this is something we will find out more about soon!
 

Tugela

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The grisly developments came as sources told The Post that NYPD brass pressured a reluctant Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. to OK Hernandez’s arrest, despite Vance’s concerns over a lack of corroborating evidence.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...n_fridge_UtKCVlOdG93RlWA9fxMSwI#ixzz1wCBiZGAo

IMO, this is politics. No problem here with NYPD arresting P Hernandez given his confession to others years ago, knowledge of details, etc.

Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance wants it both ways. NYC Police Commissioner does NOT bring charges against defendants. DA Vance wants credit if PH is good for it, and no part of it, if PH is not the killer. MOO

Well, Vance is the one who is going to have to prove it in court, and obviously with no corroborating evidence that is going to be a tall order, especially if it turns out that the accused does have a long history of mental illness as claimed by his lawyer.

Plus, I'm sure Vance is aware of the potential risk of sending an inncoent nutcase to prison. Not to mention the risk of getting involved a Duke Lacrosse/John Karr type situation which could have a very negative effect on his career. This is a case he will have to handle very carefully.

So he is going to want to play it by the book. Unless the local Keystones can corroborate what this guy is confessing to, I bet the case will stall.
 

Zoe Zo

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I can't imagine a world in which I would "grow hardened" enough to just go merrily on my way when I heard someone confess to a murder. No way.

My thinking is these people didn't say a thing either because they were afraid to know the truth or he had mental problems back then and they thought that he was just saying crazy things?? Maybe he said other crazy things which made them to think he was just talking crazy??
 

Zoe Zo

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I can't imagine a world in which I would "grow hardened" enough to just go merrily on my way when I heard someone confess to a murder. No way.

Doing some more thinking - After Hernandez confess that at the church group setting - if someone knew or was told that he had confess to the police before (as some of us have read that he did) and they knew this and they knew the police didn't do anything about his claims back then, it would give people a reason to blow off Hernandez comments as just crazy talk. JMO
 

osadelnorte

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I thought 3 feet, 4 inches seemed unusually short for someone who was 6 years and 8 months old, too. It could be that the parents did not have precise knowledge of his height at the time of his disappearance, but a more current height should have been able to have been "guestimated" to within a couple of inches.

Exactly. Or maybe he hadn't had a check-up with a doctor in awhile, and that was the last height on record for him or something like that.
 

osadelnorte

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This actually has bothered me for a while too. My 4.5 year old is on the small side and is 40.5 inches tall. He is about in the 35th percentile for height. He is 36 pounds- so to add 14 pounds to his current height would make him pretty chunky and Etan didn't look chunky.

As a fun fact, my 2.5 year old is 38 inches tall. I find it highly unlikely that Etan was 40 inches tall.

Yep. My 6-yo is around 46-47 inches and my 3-yo is around 37.
 

Zoe Zo

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The other thing that stumps me is that the Police would have interviewed everyone from that bodega due to Etan planning to buy a soda.. so how did PH not get interviewed. There had to a reason, did the owners only state he worked occasionally and not that particular day? Since if LE knew he was working, loading stock at that particular corner or whatever that morning... he would have been high on the list for the possibility of seeing something. Something is up with that.. there was a post here mentioning the owners were possibly doing some illegal stuff (turkey stuff?? whatever that is). Is it possible they didn't trust PH to blurt out private info?

Could it be they were paying him under the table and did not want to get caught doing that??
 

Zoe Zo

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I also respect the post of bethofalltrades. PH believes he did it, but could PH actually only be a witness rather then having done the crime.... some articles have his leaving town from 1-2 months & others 2 days. If it was 1-2 months LE would have spoken to him in my thoughts.. but if it was as quickly as a day or so?? why? Maybe I'm thinking too much; i do trust that Detective Butler had some gut instinct that the answer would be found at the bodega.

Interesting thoughts, but it could be true - also if he did go away a day or 2 later - could someone have sent him away (for a reason) and he can't remember that?? Maybe I'm thinking too much also lol
 

SyraKelly

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I am on the fence to as whether PH did it-I need something speific from LE that leads to PH-something only PH or Etan's parents knew about him-like-did Etan take a lunch that day or something in his book bag-This arresting a mentally ill person base on a confession is just not enough for me!! I want hard proof it PH!!
 
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