NY NY - Leslie, 29, Julie, 6, & Timothy Guthrie, 3, drove away from home, Katonah, 6 Feb 1977

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    In another case where a body was recovered in a submerged car after decades, the detective on that case stated a missing person with a missing car for a long period of time usually means they're in a body of water. So, I'm thinking this is the general consensus among law enforcement.
     
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  2. VaYank5150

    VaYank5150 Member

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    This makes a ton of sense. While I acknowledge that precision sonar gear is very expensive, based on videos I have seen from AWP, I wonder how many cases COULD have been resolved sooner if local law enforcement could afford the gear.
     
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  3. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    It is expensive, and cost is also what prohibited water searches decades ago, including the case I was referring to. Plus, some searches might include multiple bodies of water along multiple routes, making it that much more cost prohibitive. And I wonder how many cases could have been, and could be, resolved if it were affordable, too.
     
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  4. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    I pointed this one out a number of years ago and it turned out to not be the car. I grew up in the area and used to figure skate at a rink very close to that ramp. We took that route every single morning for many years on my way to and from practice. The idea that the car flew off of it and into the water isn't far-fetched. It was very icy sometimes.

    Also, someone asked if the IBM headquarters was in that location in 1977 and I can confirm that it was in that location in Armonk near the Greenwich line. The campus shared a border with the American Can campus and had been there for some time before 1977. Many of the parents in my town worked there.

    I have always been convinced that they went into a body of water. Maybe the Kensico Reservoir or maybe the little body of water near her sister's house. There's a lot of water in the area.

    Even before global warming, the lakes rarely froze enough to bear the weight of a car, though I could see a scenario in which the ice near the bank was thick enough to support a car temporarily while it skidded out a ways and finally hit thinner ice and fell through. So if the car is in a body of water, it may be a little further out than it would be if the car went into the water in the summertime.
     
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  5. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    @Skigirl Thank you for the insight. If it wasn't a vehicle, do you know what it turned out to be?
     
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  6. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    I think it was just an optical illusion/artifact on the satellite image. I think someday someone will encounter the car by accident
     
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  7. VaYank5150

    VaYank5150 Member

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    Update. I received an email from Jared with Adventures with Purpose and they will be onsite to search the first week of October!
     
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  8. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the update.
     
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  9. VaYank5150

    VaYank5150 Member

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    I am sad to report that AWP did manage to do some diving around Katonah, but nothing of substance was discovered.
     
  10. Alleykins

    Alleykins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the update.
     
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  11. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    The second place I'd look for a car that was heading from Katonah to White Plains is the Kensico Reservoir. Depending on where you are going in White Plains, it would be convenient to get off of I-684 at Armonk and take Route-22, which takes you on a road that wends around the reservoir.
     
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  12. DD Byrd

    DD Byrd Active Member

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    If she indeed wanted to stay off 684, and came from below via King Street she would have had to to have taken a left on 22 to get to IBM. As I mentioned before, the water comes very close to King Street in certain places, but if she did take the left and slid there is another body of water there as well. The wired guard rail, and trees, weren't there then. 41.111306, -73.729399 on Google Maps
     
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  13. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    I think I missed something. Was she going to IBM? I thought she was going to her mother's in White Plains, but this is all from memory.

    I lived off of King Street/Rt. 120. To your point, the way my mom would have gone (since I was too young to drive when I skated at Harvey) from Katonah to IBM, left to her own devices back then, probably would have been 684 (briefly) -> Saw Mill River Parkway -> Chappaqua, and then to King Street/Rt. 120.

    Back then, people tended to have favorite routes because they didn't have GPS to reveal what was optimal, and coming from Katonah, the Saw Mill was always our go-to. I don't know if that was the same for her, but the Saw Mill would probably have been more familiar than 684, since 684 was still pretty new.
     
  14. DD Byrd

    DD Byrd Active Member

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    Exactly. I'm not sure where IBM came up, but I thought she was going to pick up her Mom there? I agree with King Street to 22 for either the Armonk IBM or south to White Plains. And at the time would have been less traveled, even less in winter weather.
     
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  15. Skigirl

    Skigirl Verified expert in neuroscience

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    Is it 100% confirmed that they were heading to IBM to pick up her mom?

    I spent a little time over the weekend thinking and reading more about this case. First of all... I looked for her mom's address, and I found one in West Harrison (I do not know if that's where she was living at the time, but it would make sense since where she was living was described as an apartment, and the address I found was in an apartment complex; it would be a very easy commute to IBM and it's near the White Plains border), which changes my thinking about the route they might have taken.

    For those of you who aren't from the area, the way people refer to towns is very confusing. Katonah is not a town, it's a village/hamlet in the town of Bedford. Chappaqua and Armonk are also not towns, they are villages (or hamlets) in the towns of New Castle and North Castle, respectively. Harrison is its own town/village, but it's right next door to White Plains, which is the closest thing to a "city" in Westchester County. Elmsford is a village in the Town of Greenburg (along with Ardsley, Hastings, Tarrytown, Dobbs Ferry, and several others).

    Psychologically, people usually consider themselves residents of their village and sometimes don't even know what town they live in. And they refer to their village as a "town". I'm originally from Chappaqua and I literally never say "I am from New Castle" nor do I really consider New Castle a real "thing" except as a legal entity (in fact, I just googled it to confirm what other villages are in New Castle and I was today years old when I learned that parts of Ossining are in it).

    The closest airport is referred to as "White Plains" by the airlines, but people always call it "Westchester County Airport" (that may be changing as people move in) and psychologically, it is definitely not in White Plains, it's in... Purchase, maybe? Or just "the County."

    All this is to say that that's probably why it was said that she was "going to White Plains" when she could have either been going to IBM (technically in Armonk/North Castle) or to her mother's (maybe in West Harrison).

    The only reason I'm giving all of this background is that it might add some driving routes to consider. If she was going from 7 Grandview Ave in Katonah to her mother's apartment in West Harrison, located (I think) at 189 Columbus Ave, she might have gone some routes that I hadn't considered before. For example, one of them would take her to the spot pictured here, which is a bridge over the Cross River, on Rt. 35.

    [​IMG]
     
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