NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

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CakeEater

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I know the store well, but I've never heard it referred to as Oak Beach CVS. I tried googling Oak beah CVS and nothing comes up.

West Islip is part of Islip not Babylon. The CVS phone number does have a Babylon exchange so maybe that's what the Babylon part is

Not trying to be that newbie who stirs the pot, but it's early and my brain is still processing my first cup of joe. West Islip lies in both Islip and Babylon towns. It's most often referred to as part of Islip, similarly how Ronkonkoma is part of both Islip and Brookhaven towns... I'll try to dig something up to support my claim if needed, I know I'm not pulling this out of my rear. lol :waitasec:
 

Mountain_Kat

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WAS there a security guard posted at the OBIA gate? I was always under the impression that there was only a security camera?
 

dcgrumpy

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Not trying to be that newbie who stirs the pot, but it's early and my brain is still processing my first cup of joe. West Islip lies in both Islip and Babylon towns. It's most often referred to as part of Islip, similarly how Ronkonkoma is part of both Islip and Brookhaven towns... I'll try to dig something up to support my claim if needed, I know I'm not pulling this out of my rear. lol :waitasec:

I don't know, I've never heard of that before. I worked for Directory assistance for 20 years so I do know that some towns are part of more than one township, like Ronkonkoma and Hauppauge but I have never heard that about West Islip. and my husband is from West Islip.

I see that wikipedia claims that it's so, but if you go to town of Babylon website there is no mention of West Islip anywhere. And actually the WI Chamber of commerce only mentions Islip http://www.westislipchamber.org/index.php/wicc/about-wicc

Not trying to be argumentative. I just have never heard that before
 

carbuff

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I rearranged the list to make the timeline clearer, and grouped the calls that happened at about the same time. This is just my analysis and speculation.

DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak


SG calls to arrange pickup time?

05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

If the first call was to arrange the pickup time, these could be "Are you almost here? I'll wait for you out front" (or other variations on making contact with the person who's picking you up).

gap: two and a half hours, at least part of it driving. Locals, how long should the drive have taken? I'm guessing 90 minutes, which would make it right around 2. JB says she got there around 2, right? Or am I remembering wrong?


05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS (460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)

the name of the pharmacy would be the one that's on the phone records, which probably only makes sense to the CVS company. Calling to make sure they're open?
05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

If the duration of these calls is accurate (could be rounded up to the next minute), the phone was in use 17 of 20 minutes. Even if they're all rounded up, it's still almost 15 minutes on the phone. One possibility is that the driver was having trouble finding the pharmacy and SG or JB was giving him directions. Or did she not get to JB's until now?

And now a 50-minute gap.

05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

This is likely the call from JB telling him SG won't leave. But there's a 40-minute gap. Are they trying to calm her down/sober her up all this time? Or was this a different call -- maybe "I'm going to be another hour"? In that case the call to MP would have to be made from JB's phone or landline.

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23
 

CakeEater

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I don't know, I've never heard of that before. I worked for Directory assistance for 20 years so I do know that some towns are part of more than one township, like Ronkonkoma and Hauppauge but I have never heard that about West Islip. and my husband is from West Islip.

I see that wikipedia claims that it's so, but if you go to town of Babylon website there is no mention of West Islip anywhere.

Yeah, I noticed that in my scouring... AND I hate citing Wikipedia (nostalgic of a certain college profs. strict words NEVER to use a wiki for proof). I know this isn't where I heard it from. If our discussion is somehow really relevant to our sleuthing processes, I'll call up the town halls and see which town stakes a claim on WI first or just what the respective borders are for each town and their share of the hamlet.

OT: I love the environment here. Everybody has input and the way ideas are constantly being bounced off of one another, without people jumping down each others throats. It's very professional and organized, not to mention open-mined :twocents:
 

Mountain_Kat

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I rearranged the list to make the timeline clearer, and grouped the calls that happened at about the same time. This is just my analysis and speculation.

DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak


SG calls to arrange pickup time?

05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

If the first call was to arrange the pickup time, these could be "Are you almost here? I'll wait for you out front" (or other variations on making contact with the person who's picking you up).

gap: two and a half hours, at least part of it driving. Locals, how long should the drive have taken? I'm guessing 90 minutes, which would make it right around 2. JB says she got there around 2, right? Or am I remembering wrong?


05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS (460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)

the name of the pharmacy would be the one that's on the phone records, which probably only makes sense to the CVS company. Calling to make sure they're open?
05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

If the duration of these calls is accurate (could be rounded up to the next minute), the phone was in use 17 of 20 minutes. Even if they're all rounded up, it's still almost 15 minutes on the phone. One possibility is that the driver was having trouble finding the pharmacy and SG or JB was giving him directions. Or did she not get to JB's until now?

And now a 50-minute gap.

05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

This is likely the call from JB telling him SG won't leave. But there's a 40-minute gap. Are they trying to calm her down/sober her up all this time? Or was this a different call -- maybe "I'm going to be another hour"? In that case the call to MP would have to be made from JB's phone or landline.

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23

I'm with you until you get to the last call. These were all calls made to and from SG's phone, so the call from JB to the driver wouldn't have shown up on these phone records. JB wouldn't have dialed SG's number to speak to MP (who was waiting in the car at the gate), he would have called MP's phone. Or are you suggesting that JB used SG's phone to call MP?

And by the way, that story ALWAYS sounded fishy as hell to me. Why would JB have MP's cell phone number? This was her security driver, yes? OR was he her pimp? :waitasec:
 

goathairjones

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Yeah, I noticed that in my scouring... AND I hate citing Wikipedia (nostalgic of a certain college profs. strict words NEVER to use a wiki for proof). I know this isn't where I heard it from. If our discussion is somehow really relevant to our sleuthing processes, I'll call up the town halls and see which town stakes a claim on WI first or just what the respective borders are for each town and their share of the hamlet.

OT: I love the environment here. Everybody has input and the way ideas are constantly being bounced off of one another, without people jumping down each others throats. It's very professional and organized, not to mention open-mined :twocents:

CakeEater,

FYI...I live in West Islip and the only thing "Babylon" about West Islip is the phone exchanges (422 and 669). Otherwise, everything else about West Islip is Town of Islip.
 

carbuff

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Yeah, I noticed that in my scouring... AND I hate citing Wikipedia (nostalgic of a certain college profs. strict words NEVER to use a wiki for proof). I know this isn't where I heard it from. If our discussion is somehow really relevant to our sleuthing processes, I'll call up the town halls and see which town stakes a claim on WI first or just what the respective borders are for each town and their share of the hamlet.

OT: I love the environment here. Everybody has input and the way ideas are constantly being bounced off of one another, without people jumping down each others throats. It's very professional and organized, not to mention open-mined :twocents:

Those phone bill locations also reflect the way the phone company views the world, which doesn't necessarily match reality. The name that shows is whatever they have on record for that location. It's arranged according to exchanges, and if an exchange overlaps municipalities, they might choose to display any of those names for that exchange.

When we moved here, our area of town was quite new. It's right next to the town line. It was cheaper and quicker for the builder to run the phone line from the next town over, but that meant that for years the phone company had us listed as in that town, not the one where the house is located.
 

waltzingmatilda

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Yeah, I noticed that in my scouring... AND I hate citing Wikipedia (nostalgic of a certain college profs. strict words NEVER to use a wiki for proof). I know this isn't where I heard it from. If our discussion is somehow really relevant to our sleuthing processes, I'll call up the town halls and see which town stakes a claim on WI first or just what the respective borders are for each town and their share of the hamlet.

OT: I love the environment here. Everybody has input and the way ideas are constantly being bounced off of one another, without people jumping down each others throats. It's very professional and organized, not to mention open-mined :twocents:

WELCOME to WS CakeEater!

wm
 

carbuff

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I'm with you until you get to the last call. These were all calls made to and from SG's phone, so the call from JB to the driver wouldn't have shown up on these phone records. JB wouldn't have dialed SG's number to speak to MP (who was waiting in the car at the gate), he would have called MP's phone. Or are you suggesting that JB used SG's phone to call MP?

And by the way, that story ALWAYS sounded fishy as hell to me. Why would JB have MP's cell phone number? This was her security driver, yes? OR was he her pimp? :waitasec:

Yes, I meant that JB might have picked up SG's phone and used the most-recent-calls list to find the driver's number and call him from either his own phone or from SG's phone. It's the only way I can think of that he could have called the driver without having the phone number.

Right now I'm kind of leaning to thinking that JB's comment about her not being what he expected meant he didn't expect or want a freaked-out junkie, and that her not leaving was related to her not being able to perform but still insisting on her money. JB might have called the doctor to make sure she was okay, but she freaked over whatever treatment he was trying to give her and thought he was trying to kill her instead.
 

svpernin

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Yes, I meant that JB might have picked up SG's phone and used the most-recent-calls list to find the driver's number and call him from either his own phone or from SG's phone. It's the only way I can think of that he could have called the driver without having the phone number.

Right now I'm kind of leaning to thinking that JB's comment about her not being what he expected meant he didn't expect or want a freaked-out junkie, and that her not leaving was related to her not being able to perform but still insisting on her money. JB might have called the doctor to make sure she was okay, but she freaked over whatever treatment he was trying to give her and thought he was trying to kill her instead.

All very plausible, but what do you think ended up happening after all that? I just cannot get myself to accept the theory that she may have encountered some other fate (i.e. drowning), unrelated to the bodies found in that area-- who just happened to be online escorts close to her age. Help me open my mind!!
 

stillwatersc

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Yes, I meant that JB might have picked up SG's phone and used the most-recent-calls list to find the driver's number and call him from either his own phone or from SG's phone. It's the only way I can think of that he could have called the driver without having the phone number.

Right now I'm kind of leaning to thinking that JB's comment about her not being what he expected meant he didn't expect or want a freaked-out junkie, and that her not leaving was related to her not being able to perform but still insisting on her money. JB might have called the doctor to make sure she was okay, but she freaked over whatever treatment he was trying to give her and thought he was trying to kill her instead.

This makes more sense to me than someone killing her after she showed up with a driver! But then what happened to Shannan Gilbert?
:abduction:
 

dcgrumpy

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This makes more sense to me than someone killing her after she showed up with a driver! But then what happened to Shannan Gilbert?
:abduction:

ITA

I don't know what the heck happened to her but it doesn't make sense to me that JB would call her driver to come pick her up because she refused to leave and then he killed her
 

carbuff

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All very plausible, but what do you think ended up happening after all that? I just cannot get myself to accept the theory that she may have encountered some other fate (i.e. drowning), unrelated to the bodies found in that area-- who just happened to be online escorts close to her age. Help me open my mind!!

I really don't know, nor do I have any hypotheses. I think there's some information that LE has from JB, PH, MP, Gus, and the 911 call that gives some clues that we aren't privy to that would make a significant difference.

There seems to be some indications in a couple of other cases, MBB in particular, that they might have been accosted after their client meetings. If that's the case, the killer might have already been following her.
 

dcgrumpy

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I really don't know, nor do I have any hypotheses. I think there's some information that LE has from JB, PH, MP, Gus, and the 911 call that gives some clues that we aren't privy to that would make a significant difference.

There seems to be some indications in a couple of other cases, MBB in particular, that they might have been accosted after their client meetings. If that's the case, the killer might have already been following her.
That's an interesting theory
 

stillwatersc

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I really don't know, nor do I have any hypotheses. I think there's some information that LE has from JB, PH, MP, Gus, and the 911 call that gives some clues that we aren't privy to that would make a significant difference.

There seems to be some indications in a couple of other cases, MBB in particular, that they might have been accosted after their client meetings. If that's the case, the killer might have already been following her.

All we know is what has been published - and that may be false, misleading and definitely incomplete. I feel certain LE has asked all of these witnesses not to reveal some of the details.
 

carbuff

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All we know is what has been published - and that may be false, misleading and definitely incomplete. I feel certain LE has asked all of these witnesses not to reveal some of the details.

Yes, and I think that might also be what makes some of the accounts seem hinky and inconsistent -- the participatns trying to find something to say to the media that doesn't give away the important things wind up sounding like they're lying. Because in a way they are, just for a good reason.
 

dcgrumpy

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Yes, and I think that might also be what makes some of the accounts seem hinky and inconsistent -- the participatns trying to find something to say to the media that doesn't give away the important things wind up sounding like they're lying. Because in a way they are, just for a good reason.

I wondered that about the phone call to SG's family. I think I read one report where MB's family were told by police not to reveal that the SK said he killed her in his last call but they decided to tell them media. I wonder if SG's family was told not to talk about the phone call and that's why police are denying they knew about it and PH is saying he didn't call.

Probably not, but it has crossed my mind
 

Mountain_Kat

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Yes, I meant that JB might have picked up SG's phone and used the most-recent-calls list to find the driver's number and call him from either his own phone or from SG's phone. It's the only way I can think of that he could have called the driver without having the phone number.

Right now I'm kind of leaning to thinking that JB's comment about her not being what he expected meant he didn't expect or want a freaked-out junkie, and that her not leaving was related to her not being able to perform but still insisting on her money. JB might have called the doctor to make sure she was okay, but she freaked over whatever treatment he was trying to give her and thought he was trying to kill her instead.

BBM

Okay, so we're on the same track with that line of thinking. JB was reported to have told SG's sister that SG didn't look like the picture posted on CL, so there's also the possibility he felt there was a bait and switch. Perhaps he decided he was already this far in, might as well just accept it and move forward with the date, but then when the service also wasn't up to par (assuming there even WAS services performed), he got pissed and decided not to pay. Now, as far as I'm able to tell, part of a driver's job is to make sure the girls get paid, so perhaps we're not hearing the whole truth about the incident between JB and the driver. Perhaps SG called the driver saying JB wouldn't pay, and the driver then shows up at the house to get the money. Lot's of reasons for both JB and the driver to lie to LE about this part of the story. I'm just not seeing JB calling the driver and telling him to come get SG, but I can see SG calling him to come help her get her money. As for why she called 911 from the house, then ran from the house, then called 911 after going to GC's...your guess is as good as mine. I can't see her calling 911because a john was simply trying to shove her out of his house without her money. She felt threatened, that's a given. But once her protection arrived at the house, why not simply leave with him? Why run from the house, JB AND her driver/bodyguard. Doesn't make sense. For whatever reasons they have, I'd bet my farm BOTH the driver and JB are lying about at least part of what went down that night.
 

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All we know is what has been published - and that may be false, misleading and definitely incomplete. I feel certain LE has asked all of these witnesses not to reveal some of the details.

I think the most valuable piece of info that we do not have yet is the 23 min 911 call, specifically the name of the person SG repeatedly claims is trying to kill her.

I believe the only people to have heard this phone call besides LE is SG's family.

SG's family doesn't have a problem throwing damming statements about CPH out to the media...repeatedly. (I would be impatient too)

a + b ... carry the 2 ...

if there is no body there is no case. SG will never be found because this SK who knows the law, went "canyon exploring"

JB said, "the truth will come out" because he knows it, but until there is physical evidence he can't be "libeless"-CPH (lawyered up from the start)

now lacking evidence to tie SK to the other bodies, we will basically need someone close to SK to find some proof and turn him in. "people" close to Mr Hyde would probably "go missing" if they seemed like they were going to come out of denial and make that move.
 
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