NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

[Sillybilly]

I am so very sorry for the loss of your son.

Thanks crimesnooper. Was a few years back, but is partly what brings some of us to where we are today .. trying to help those who suffer through the loss of their children.

 

[kemo]

For those who are confused, New York has a different system of political subdivisions than other parts of the country. Each county is divided into Cities and Towns (or townships). All land in a county falls into either a City or a Town. Suffolk County has no cities so the county is divided into "Towns" which include settled area and open space. We are primarily interested in the Towns of Babylon and Islip.
Within "towns" there can be Villages, which are settled areas that are organized municipalities that provide various services. Within Towns there can be "Hamlets" that are nothing more than names people call the area. Hamlets have no legal status; all services are provided by the Township.

It is possible for a Hamlet or Village to fall within two towns. In the Towns we are primarily interested in, the Hamlet of West Islip is partly in Babylon and partly in Islip. There is a Village of Babylon in the Town of Babylon and a Village of Islip in the Town of Islip. This sometimes causes confusion. It is not always clear whether the Town or Village is being referred to.

Because Hamlets have no "official" boundaries, there is often no general agreement on "name" to call a specific area. Neighbors may use different names to describe where they live.

The CVS in question appears to be on the Montauk Hwy, in the Hamlet of West Islip, in the Township of Babylon but they appear to refer to the store as the as the "Oak Beach" CVS.

 

[dcgrumpy]

For those who are confused, New York has a different system of political subdivisions than other parts of the country. Each county is divided into Cities and Towns (or townships). All land in a county falls into either a City or a Town. Suffolk County has no cities so the county is divided into "Towns" which include settled area and open space. We are primarily interested in the Towns of Babylon and Islip.
Within "towns" there can be Villages, which are settled areas that are organized municipalities that provide various services. Within Towns there can be "Hamlets" that are nothing more than names people call the area. Hamlets have no legal status; all services are provided by the Township.

It is possible for a Hamlet or Village to fall within two towns. In the Towns we are primarily interested in, the Hamlet of West Islip is partly in Babylon and partly in Islip. There is a Village of Babylon in the Town of Babylon and a Village of Islip in the Town of Islip. This sometimes causes confusion. It is not always clear whether the Town or Village is being referred to.

Because Hamlets have no "official" boundaries, there is often no general agreement on "name" to call a specific area. Neighbors may use different names to describe where they live.

The CVS in question appears to be on the Montauk Hwy, in the Hamlet of West Islip, in the Township of Babylon but they appear to refer to the store as the as the "Oak Beach" CVS.

I'm not sure what you mean by

Because Hamlets have no "official" boundaries, there is often no general agreement on "name" to call a specific area. Neighbors may use different names to describe where they live

That's not true at all. Hamlets do not have their own government but they do have "official boundaries", their own zip code and usually their own school district.

Township of Babylon

theTownship of Islip

 

[Pinkhammer]

I found out about past rehab through one of the court cases (yes there were multiple gross negligence malpractice cases against him), it ultimately was not admitted as part of the case, but it documented the occurance of rehab. (was from the 90's)
see attachment; page 6.

Very very interesting. I am seeing this doctor in a new light...and it isn't good.

 

[MrsG728]

Maybe for viagra and condoms? Just sayin'...


I also think the "Oak Beach" part of that list is *destination*. .
that's all- a summary by the poster in which we're looking into too deeply. on their way to oak beach, they stopped at CVS.

Also, it means that they went to Oak Beach from the EAST- coming over the Robert Moses bridge in a Westbound direction on Ocean Parkway, turned around and drove into the Oak Beach development/community.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Very very interesting. I am seeing this doctor in a new light...and it isn't good.

I'd like to see him in a new light too... a bright one, shining right in his face.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Maybe for viagra and condoms? Just sayin'...


I also think the "Oak Beach" part of that list is *destination*. .
that's all- a summary by the poster in which we're looking into too deeply. on their way to oak beach, they stopped at CVS.

Also, it means that they went to Oak Beach from the EAST- coming over the Robert Moses bridge in a Westbound direction on Ocean Parkway, turned around and drove into the Oak Beach development/community.

The pharmacy call was logged at 2:55 am. SG would have already been at JB's. At least, that's always been my understanding. So if she or her driver ever did pick up a prescription there (and I'm not at all convinced that they did), then one or the other would have had to leave JB's and travel north to Islip.

 

[fashionella]

I rearranged the list to make the timeline clearer, and grouped the calls that happened at about the same time. This is just my analysis and speculation.

DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

SG calls to arrange pickup time?

05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

If the first call was to arrange the pickup time, these could be "Are you almost here? I'll wait for you out front" (or other variations on making contact with the person who's picking you up).

gap: two and a half hours, at least part of it driving. Locals, how long should the drive have taken? I'm guessing 90 minutes, which would make it right around 2. JB says she got there around 2, right? Or am I remembering wrong?


05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS (460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)
the name of the pharmacy would be the one that's on the phone records, which probably only makes sense to the CVS company. Calling to make sure they're open?
05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

If the duration of these calls is accurate (could be rounded up to the next minute), the phone was in use 17 of 20 minutes. Even if they're all rounded up, it's still almost 15 minutes on the phone. One possibility is that the driver was having trouble finding the pharmacy and SG or JB was giving him directions. Or did she not get to JB's until now?

And now a 50-minute gap.

05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak

This is likely the call from JB telling him SG won't leave. But there's a 40-minute gap. Are they trying to calm her down/sober her up all this time? Or was this a different call -- maybe "I'm going to be another hour"? In that case the call to MP would have to be made from JB's phone or landline.

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23

Ok, being from the area and using the LIRR all the time. It's pretty clear that SG took the train from the city to Babylon--there is a train that arrives at 12:19am. Pak was supposed to meet her and take her to JBs house. She makes 3 phonecalls bc Pak is late to the station. The next call to CVS? Well since she's not from the area and didn't call directory asst.--she must have been drugged, came to, and called the # on the prescription bottle (CVS puts their # on every script, I use them as my pharmacy) So, now to me, things are starting to make sense. The Pak guy is some "middle man" some Korean pimp who JB uses, as I have thought since the beginning, not anyone close to SG--just some creep who procures women for JB. SG knows she was drugged, doesn't trust anyone including the driver bc he's not helping her that night....

 

[Pinkhammer]

Yes, there is a strong link. the office for the job PH held, SCPD police surgeon, and Director of Suffolk County's Emergency Medical Services, is located at 100 vets Hwy in Happauge. Google map it and notice the proximity to the Holiday Inn express 2 of the girls are connected to (within hundreds of yards).

I am from a town that borders Hauppauge, when I realized the proximity of the office and that hotel, combined with the fact that the bodies are ending up where they are.... it all but sealed the deal for me.

Anyone with a decent understanding of probability would tell you that the chance of girls going missing from where you work, and ending up dead where you live (20 miles apart) is pretty low (unless you transported them that is).

Now, combine that probability, with the probability that the Gilbert family picked your name from a hat and fabricated a damming phone call that points to you as a suspect....

you can go ask a math prof if you want, but it's akin to winning the "anti-lottery" if you ask me...

I am duly impressed with your fine research.

 

[dcgrumpy]

Ok, being from the area and using the LIRR all the time. It's pretty clear that SG took the train from the city to Babylon--there is a train that arrives at 12:19am. Pak was supposed to meet her and take her to JBs house. She makes 3 phonecalls bc Pak is late to the station. The next call to CVS? Well since she's not from the area and didn't call directory asst.--she must have been drugged, came to, and called the # on the prescription bottle (CVS puts their # on every script, I use them as my pharmacy) So, now to me, things are starting to make sense. The Pak guy is some "middle man" some Korean pimp who JB uses, as I have thought since the beginning, not anyone close to SG--just some creep who procures women for JB. SG knows she was drugged, doesn't trust anyone including the driver bc he's not helping her that night....

Then where was she from 12:25 until 2:55?

and someone drugged her and then stuck the pill bottle in her pocket?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Ok, being from the area and using the LIRR all the time. It's pretty clear that SG took the train from the city to Babylon--there is a train that arrives at 12:19am. Pak was supposed to meet her and take her to JBs house. She makes 3 phonecalls bc Pak is late to the station. The next call to CVS? Well since she's not from the area and didn't call directory asst.--she must have been drugged, came to, and called the # on the prescription bottle (CVS puts their # on every script, I use them as my pharmacy) So, now to me, things are starting to make sense. The Pak guy is some "middle man" some Korean pimp who JB uses, as I have thought since the beginning, not anyone close to SG--just some creep who procures women for JB. SG knows she was drugged, doesn't trust anyone including the driver bc he's not helping her that night....

Very close to my thoughts earlier this morning, Fashionella. I don't know how she got the number of that particular pharmacy, but I do think she called the pharamcy, either because she suspected she'd been drugged or thought she might be having a bad reaction to something she took voluntarily. I think the call being only 1 minute might well mean someone grabbed her phone and disconnected the call. Or, I suppose she could have simply decided she didn't know what to say to a pharmacist given the legalities of the situation. Anyway, she seems to have hung up and begun the barrage of calls to MP almost immediately after.

 

[svpernin]

Earlier someone asked why JB would have the driver's number. I see there are no calls on SG's phone to or from JB so maybe he arranged everything through the driver.

This must have been the case, otherwise how would they have gotten past the gate? Someone had to be in contact with JB (or someone from that community who could let them in). Even if JB met them somewhere and brought Shannan to his house, I would think there would have to have been phone calls setting up that meeting.

I'm interested to know whether or not there was ever ANY cell phone communication between Shannan and JB leading up to the night in question or if it was all handled by someone else (likely the "driver"). I'm also curious as to whether JB used his own line for that or a burner phone. SO many questions.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

You know, it just now occurred to me that we don't know if all these calls came from SG directly. They came from her phone, yes...but were they all HER calls?

 

[Filly]

Then where was she from 12:25 until 2:55?

and someone drugged her and then stuck the pill bottle in her pocket?

Right? Heck at that point she could have went to the computer and pill finder ID'er.

My guess is 12:25 to 2:55 she turned a trick. Then she didn't want to leave supposedly. I don't believe she was "drugged" and if so it wasn't from "one" pill from a CVS.

Nope she wouldn't know the CVS's number. Somebody else there did I bet. Like maybe a healthcare professional. Either they told SG to call or they called themselves.

All those original 1 minute calls even if she made them did they go through? Did she speak to MP? The later call at 3:04 AM she talks to him for 6 minutes. That's the longest call which may have entailed If it was her "I'm not leaving. These guys promised me they're going to get me *name a prescription*"

Not to bring the drugs all up into it again, but the only time I saw phone transactions like that or when you're concerned or to a drug dealer or looking for your partner who you do drugs with or getting to where you make your money for your drugs. It's constant. Over and over until you get your drugs or got that money in your hand.

If in those 45 minutes SG took care of her business end of the deal she got paid. Why wouldn't you leave? A promise of something.

 

[Filly]

BTW, extra thanks to Internet Girl for the link.

Also that "driver" MP? I do believe that is his Americanized name. I found his name under an ethnic one he does go by. Not sure if I can post that.

 

[Filly]

You know, it just now occurred to me that we don't know if all these calls came from SG directly. They came from her phone, yes...but were they all HER calls?

That makes more sense that some of those were not from SG. That would make sense how JB knew the "drivers" number. He was calling from her phone. He probably also called the CVS. Him or someone else in there. As in "Yipes can such and such a drug cause a person to do this?" then they thought better of it and maybe called PH.

Maybe that 6 minute call was from "them" saying "Get this chick out of here".

Apologies all for triple posts.

 

[fashionella]

Then where was she from 12:25 until 2:55?

and someone drugged her and then stuck the pill bottle in her pocket?

Sadly, what happened to her when she was drugged is anyone's guess. Perverts and killers have been known to put heinous things on tape, and drug their victims. Maybe she wasn't meant to regain consciousness, bit did, found the bottle and called the pharmacy to determine what it was she was given. It makes sense why she was incoherent and hysterical. FYI-I just looked on one of my Cvs bottles, their phone number is in big bold letters. And, if jbs name is on the script u can bet she told it to 911. No wonder they're not releasing them...

 

[ElizaAvalon]

DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23
05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS
(460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)
05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

This is great except there is no way in hell that CVS is called "Oak Beach CVS". There are NO stores on Oak Beach and the closest CVS could not possibly call itself "Oak Beach". No way.

Makes me question all of it, honestly.

 

[carbuff]

Sorry this is sooo long, and if I'm duplicating others efforts here. I've had to reverse the order of the calls so my simplisticly ordered brain can work with the times. By adding the "length of call" to the "time of call", it shows that back-to-back calls were happening fast and furious at various times, and then a 41 min timespan with nothing, then the 911 call:


04/30/10 10:02 PM to 10:04 NEW YORK,NY 2 MP

05/01/10 12:20 AM to 12:23 NEW YORK,NY 3 MP

05/01/10 12:23 AM to 12:25 NEW YORK,NY 2 MP

05/01/10 12:25 AM to 12:26 NEW YORK,NY 1 MP

At this point there is a 2 hr 30 min timespan when no calls are made. Is this when Shannan is at JB's and "services" were being performed. If so, why has JB not already called MP to express his dissatisfaction regarding Shannan not being what he expected? It then appears the first activity after this 2 hr 30 min period is the call to the pharmacy. Has there been an overdose? Possibly a doctor has been summoned to the house, and the call to the pharmacy with his official numbered ID would speed up an emergency prescription, with instruction that it will be picked up by MP.

05/01/10 2:55 AM to 2:56 BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS
(460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)

MP is called right after the pharmacy has been called.

05/01/10 2:57 AM to 3:00 NEW YORK,NY 3 MP

05/01/10 3:00 AM to 3:03 Incoming, 3 MP

05/01/10 3:04 AM to 3:10 NEW YORK,NY 6 MP

05/01/10 3:13 AM to 3:14 Incoming, 1 MP

05/01/10 3:15 AM to 3:17 NEW YORK,NY 2 MP

Then a 52 minute timespan with no phone calls to or from MP.

05/01/10 4:09 AM to 4:10 NEW YORK,NY 1 MP

Don't know how long a drive to the pharmacy and back (ETA: Yahoo maps shows 7.8 mi, 16 mins, so round trip approx 16 mi, 32 mins)


We now have a 41 min timespan with no phone calls (unless calls were made from JB's landline or?) I doubt that Shannan had been there after all this time without "services" being performed. I also doubt JB would call the driver after all this time to say that Shannan was not what he expected. So, possibly MP has arrived with the prescription which is administered, but things go haywire and Shannan, for whatever reasons becomes terrified and calls 911.

05/01/10 4:51 AM to 5:14 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23

Maybe Shannan felt reasonably "safe" while she was on the phone with 911. When she finally fled the house, she went door-to-door, terrified and begging for help ... enough presence of mind to seek help, not delirious just running randomly, screaming through the neighbourhood.

Feel free to poke holes

Nice analysis, sillybilly. I posted mine earlier ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6394851&postcount=704"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7[/ame]), if you're interested in comparing. I had to reverse the times, too. I just couldn't make sense of the reverse order

I think she was flipping out for hours and the 911 call was only the, er, climax, not the beginning.

 

[Sillybilly]

This is great except there is no way in hell that CVS is called "Oak Beach CVS". There are NO stores on Oak Beach and the closest CVS could not possibly call itself "Oak Beach". No way.

Makes me question all of it, honestly.

I think all the other entries are pretty straight-forward. The specific CVS addy is noted in brackets, so IMO someone just cross-checked the number against the addy, and "Oak Beach CVS" is simply their interpretation of that particular CVS location.

JMO