NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[dc20015]

Another thing, I wouldn't put alot of weight into anyone saying "my daughter would never", "my sister would never" statements. Not only do people do strange things under desperate circumstances, but alot of times family members and friends don't know their loved ones as well as they think they do. I mean, how long did it take some of these families to figure out the girls were prostituting? Families, in particular, are also good at denial. Nobody wants to envision their child stripping or getting paid for sex. It brings up feelings of sadness, disgust, failure and in the case of those who care too much about what the neighbors think, embarassment.

 

[WI1987]

Another thing, I wouldn't put alot of weight into anyone saying "my daughter would never", "my sister would never" statements. Not only do people do strange things under desperate circumstances, but alot of times family members and friends don't know their loved ones as well as they think they do. I mean, how long did it take some of these families to figure out the girls were prostituting? Families, in particular, are also good at denial. Nobody wants to envision their child stripping or getting paid for sex. It brings up feelings of sadness, disgust, failure and in the case of those who care too much about what the neighbors think, embarassment.

Excellent post! I have noticed this myself. All to often we see on the news about some guy or girl being arrested for a crime and their mother, aunt, grandma, etc quoted saying "My _______ would never do that!" along with displaying the obligatory middle school/junior high or high school graduation picture.

Another thing is that many of these victims appear to have come from extremely dysfunctional families.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

If he is a smooth talker when needed like suggested, is it possible he got the victims to talk more and revile things in their life. Hence knowing things and repeating the victims own feelings back at them to seem compassionate and close to them. Then with all that he gets close enough with this false trust and has them leave the cell phone behind. Idk if I am getting across my point I was trying to say... Where is my second cup of joe?

I didn't even think of that angle. Good idea. When I worked in customer service that was something I was taught in order to deal with disgruntled patrons and it was usually effective. I could see how it could work with people who are desperate and down and out.

 

[the quiet girl]

I just want to say at the same time it is very well possible that the natural reaction from loved ones is "not my son/daughter", that it may be true also.

 

[dc20015]

I just want to say at the same time it is very well possible that the natural reaction from loved ones is "not my son/daughter", that it may be true also.

Of course it may be true. But there are so many instances of people being wrong about a loved one's behavior or not knowing the lifestyle they lead that it is totally unreliable and that is the point. Statements like that can be considered, but not taken as fact.

 

[the quiet girl]

Just wanted to put it out there it can go either way, depending on the relationship of the person making the statement and their loved one.

 

[txsvicki]

I have a really hard time believing that even an extremely desperate dopesick woman would meet up with a total complete stranger who requested that she not bring any cell phone along. What reasons could a john give for requesting no cell phone? Maybe that he's paranoid and thinks he's being traced, wealthy and worried about blackmail, etc. Or, did he really request no phones, but two of the victims thought they knew him well. Maybe they told him they'd quit prostituting and were afraid he'd find out if they took their phones.
Also: Look what happened with two of the victims. The killer called and taunted a teenage sister and another family got an odd call from someone. Looks like the killer may drink or something and can't trust himself with phones or having the victims' address book numbers to tempt him.

 

[Aleph]

I have a really hard time believing that even an extremely desperate dopesick woman would meet up with a total complete stranger who requested that she not bring any cell phone along. What reasons could a john give for requesting no cell phone? Maybe that he's paranoid and thinks he's being traced, wealthy and worried about blackmail, etc. Or, did he really request no phones, but two of the victims thought they knew him well. Maybe they told him they'd quit prostituting and were afraid he'd find out if they took their phones.
Also: Look what happened with two of the victims. The killer called and taunted a teenage sister and another family got an odd call from someone. Looks like the killer may drink or something and can't trust himself with phones or having the victims' address book numbers to tempt him.

Yeah. I can't think of any plausible reason that a john could give for why an escort would need to leave her phone at home. It's such a suspicious request! Yet he talked two women into doing it, somehow.

MrsPC pointed out that the killer instituted the "no cell phone" policy only after the Shannan Gilbert incident. To me, this remains very compelling suggestive evidence that SG's experience is related to the other killings.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Could these be two additional reasons why the perp insisted on "No Cell Phones"?

ZDNet
FBI taps cell phone mic as
eavesdropping tool
Declan McCullagh
December 1, 2006
http://www.zdnet.com/news/fbi-taps-cell-phone-mic-as-eavesdropping-tool/150467

"The FBI appears to have begun using a novel form of electronic surveillance in criminal investigations: remotely activating a mobile phone's microphone and using it to eavesdrop on nearby conversations."

"Kaplan's opinion said that the eavesdropping technique "functioned whether the phone was powered on or off."


**I have a feeling LE might of tried to do the above with Melissa Barthelemy's phone.**


The Wall Street Journal
'Stingray' Phone Tracker Fuels Constitutional
Clash
September 22, 2011
By Jennifer Valentino-Devries
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576583112723197574.html

"Stingrays are designed to locate a mobile phone even when it's not being used to make a call. The Federal Bureau of Investigation considers the devices to be so critical that it has a policy of deleting the data gathered in their use, mainly to keep suspects in the dark about their capabilities, an FBI official told The Wall Street Journal in response to inquiries."

 

[nicola0001]

Has anybody heard about this documentary? It looks to be a production from the UK.

Channel 4
America's Serial Killer
Monday 13 February
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/americas-serial-killer/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1

"In one of the worst serial killings in American history, over just two years police have discovered 11 bodies dumped on an isolated stretch of coastal road in Long Island, New York, leading to a wealthy gated community."

"Four of the dead were sex workers who had advertised online, as part of a rapidly growing internet sex trade worth millions. The killer is still at large."

Hi, Im a new poster to this site & from the UK. I saw this programme last week on tv, It didn't have as much information as the 48 HOURS programme had & it focused alot on one of the victims sister who is selling herself on Craigslist in hope of coming face to face with the LISK!! Poor,poor women.

I only found out about these horrific murders 2 weeks ago, as we havent had much coverage on these murders over here in the uk, & im extremely impressed by the dedication of some of the posters on here, Keep up the excellent work.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi, Im a new poster to this site & from the UK. I saw this programme last week on tv, It didn't have as much information as the 48 HOURS programme had & it focused alot on one of the victims sister who is selling herself on Craigslist in hope of coming face to face with the LISK!! Poor,poor women.

I only found out about these horrific murders 2 weeks ago, as we havent had much coverage on these murders over here in the uk, & im extremely impressed by the dedication of some of the posters on here, Keep up the excellent work.

:wagon:

nicola0001, Thanks for the info and Welcome to WS!

wm

 

[BelieveinUFO]

I have a really hard time believing that even an extremely desperate dopesick woman would meet up with a total complete stranger who requested that she not bring any cell phone along. What reasons could a john give for requesting no cell phone? Maybe that he's paranoid and thinks he's being traced, wealthy and worried about blackmail, etc. Or, did he really request no phones, but two of the victims thought they knew him well. Maybe they told him they'd quit prostituting and were afraid he'd find out if they took their phones.
Also: Look what happened with two of the victims. The killer called and taunted a teenage sister and another family got an odd call from someone. Looks like the killer may drink or something and can't trust himself with phones or having the victims' address book numbers to tempt him.

Yeah. I can't think of any plausible reason that a john could give for why an escort would need to leave her phone at home. It's such a suspicious request! Yet he talked two women into doing it, somehow.

MrsPC pointed out that the killer instituted the "no cell phone" policy only after the Shannan Gilbert incident. To me, this remains very compelling suggestive evidence that SG's experience is related to the other killings.

I never concluded that the victims after Shannon was asked not to bring their phones, may be i missed something? The only concrete evidence was that from Amber Costello's boyfriend who last saw Amber. Did he ever say that she was asked not to take her phone with her? I think all he said on the tv-interview was that the john called numerous times to persuade Amber to go with him. ( I also don't know how LI could not use the information from the numerous calls the john supposedly made to Amber. Even if it is a throwaway phone, it is easy to know where they could have bought the phone (except ebay) For using the topup card, you need to buy and register or call their help line to register. So with that phone number, you would know every single details of topup cards used and where it was purchased)
(If the John persuaded amber to show up without bringing her phone then she should have either known John or the John said something convincing to her or she probably made similar earlier trips like that with other johns or she forgot to take it with her). (Even with my friends/family, i go to a mall or walmart, chances are I may get lost and phone is the easiest way to tell others where I am. So what convinced Amber to leave at night with a stranger without a phone?)
On a side-note as much as her boyfriend would seems convincing, he should be investigated too as the last person to see Amber.

 

[Seaslug44]

I never concluded that the victims after Shannon was asked not to bring their phones, may be i missed something? The only concrete evidence was that from Amber Costello's boyfriend who last saw Amber. Did he ever say that she was asked not to take her phone with her? I think all he said on the tv-interview was that the john called numerous times to persuade Amber to go with him. ( I also don't know how LI could not use the information from the numerous calls the john supposedly made to Amber. Even if it is a throwaway phone, it is easy to know where they could have bought the phone (except ebay) For using the topup card, you need to buy and register or call their help line to register. So with that phone number, you would know every single details of topup cards used and where it was purchased)
(If the John persuaded amber to show up without bringing her phone then she should have either known John or the John said something convincing to her or she probably made similar earlier trips like that with other johns or she forgot to take it with her). (Even with my friends/family, i go to a mall or walmart, chances are I may get lost and phone is the easiest way to tell others where I am. So what convinced Amber to leave at night with a stranger without a phone?)
On a side-note as much as her boyfriend would seems convincing, he should be investigated too as the last person to see Amber.

A person does not need a cell phone any more to make phone calls. I see tech savvy people making calls using tablets and all sorts of wifi devices all of the time using public wifi connections and free services such as Google Voice. There are also hundreds of thousands of residents in every major city who do not password protect their wireless wifi routers.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Sometimes people don't change the default passwords/factory settings that come with the wi-fi devices. The default passwords and factory settings that come with the wi-fi devices can be found online.

 

[still]

Yeah. I can't think of any plausible reason that a john could give for why an escort would need to leave her phone at home. It's such a suspicious request! Yet he talked two women into doing it, somehow.

MrsPC pointed out that the killer instituted the "no cell phone" policy only after the Shannan Gilbert incident. To me, this remains very compelling suggestive evidence that SG's experience is related to the other killings.

Maybe the killer itself is knowledgableabout electronic surveillancewhich he might use in his business to keep track of employees and or he is worried about someone trackinghim ie an ex in the same way.

 

[BelieveinUFO]

A person does not need a cell phone any more to make phone calls. I see tech savvy people making calls using tablets and all sorts of wifi devices all of the time using public wifi connections and free services such as Google Voice. There are also hundreds of thousands of residents in every major city who do not password protect their wireless wifi routers.

Yeah, sure they could have used a voip or other means back in 2010. But, to convince Amber, he should have called from somewhere (with a valid return phone number) so that they could return a call back and speak with them. That number is ofcourse traceable. Amber's boyfriend should know exactly what happened with those phonecalls and whether they called the john back and spoke.
As far as internet ads go, most of the escorts would not answer calls unless they get a phone number shown in their calls and they will definitely verify it to go out with them.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Caller ID could be spoofed in 2010. Also, LE thinks the perp used burn phones too.

the Atlantic wire
Latest Terrifying Long Island
Serial Killer News: He Might Be a Cop
Ray Gustini
April 11, 2011
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/nati...and-serial-killer-news-he-might-be-cop/36543/

"According the Times, authorities see the killer's use of disposable cell phones to contact four of the victims, prostitutes he found on Craigslist, and threatening phone calls to victims' families which were ended in time before a trace could be performed, as an indication he's familiar with investigation. "He is a guy who is aware of how we utilize technology," one unnamed investigator told the paper."

 

[BelieveinUFO]

Caller ID could be spoofed in 2010.

spoofing caller id is very easy. lots of voip services online that would help acheive it and even make phone calls coming from soneoneelse. (Google sometimes uses it for contacting ads-helpline with users browsing)

The point is Amber should have returned a call if the John was unknown to gain trust to go out with him. So he should have given some number to Amber.

 

[still]

The rule was no phone. She trusted him. He knew that she could not call for help without the phone. She thought she was going somewhere safe with someone she knew, or thought she knew. .?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

*If* Amber returned a phone call to the perp for verification purposes, it appears she would of called a disposable cell phone if LE is correct.