Found Deceased NY - Nicole Plaud, 24, & Miguel Valentin-Colon, 31, son found alone, Buffalo, 16 Sep 2019 *arrest*

Xxxx83

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I guess what I really mean is that LE is telling us that they only have bones and teeth to work with as evidence. Those bones and teeth must have been located in seperate enough positions in order for them to say “two victims” “only ashes” at the same time. Because I don’t think they have had enough time to sort/sift thru the whole car and count bone pieces as well as attempt dna on them to identify if they have 1,2 or 3 victims. Make sense?



Here is an article about the coroner process in the case I was referencing here,
Kathleen Ryan. Found Deceased - WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019


Burned beyond recognition: Illinois coroner works to ID remains found in Milwaukee teacher’s car
Well, that and the the fact that people only have one pelvis, femur, skull, set of teeth, etc. The coroner up there has felt with these types of findings too many times to be clueless.
 

diggndeeperstill

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Well, that and the the fact that people only have one pelvis, femur, skull, set of teeth, etc. The coroner up there has felt with these types of findings too many times to be clueless.

Yes, true... but ashes. To expect that these bones, teeth and fragments are easily identifiable and in the same location as they started seems wrong to me and my non expert mind.

Forgive me but I don’t actually remember if fire department was called to extinguish the fire? If so, I’d say the water would greatly displace some fragments and bones. I just don’t get how they can tell right away. I won’t go searching for pics of the type, can’t handle that. But my impression was that the bones do not stay connected to each other.
 

MsArk

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Yes, true... but ashes. To expect that these bones, teeth and fragments are easily identifiable and in the same location as they started seems wrong to me and my non expert mind.

Forgive me but I don’t actually remember if fire department was called to extinguish the fire? If so, I’d say the water would greatly displace some fragments and bones. I just don’t get how they can tell right away. I won’t go searching for pics of the type, can’t handle that. But my impression was that the bones do not stay connected to each other.

I couldn’t find the link quickly so I will preface by saying IMO but I’m almost sure that the car was burned out by the time it was found.

Edit- spelling
 
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Curiousobserver

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Yes, true... but ashes. To expect that these bones, teeth and fragments are easily identifiable and in the same location as they started seems wrong to me and my non expert mind.

Forgive me but I don’t actually remember if fire department was called to extinguish the fire? If so, I’d say the water would greatly displace some fragments and bones. I just don’t get how they can tell right away. I won’t go searching for pics of the type, can’t handle that. But my impression was that the bones do not stay connected to each other.
It was called but all they did was cut the top off the car so the ME and LE could look inside and extract what they needed.

The car extinguished itself.
 

Curiousobserver

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I guess what I really mean is that LE is telling us that they only have bones and teeth to work with as evidence. Those bones and teeth must have been located in seperate enough positions in order for them to say “two victims” “only ashes” at the same time. Because I don’t think they have had enough time to sort/sift thru the whole car and count bone pieces as well as attempt dna on them to identify if they have 1,2 or 3 victims. Make sense?



Here is an article about the coroner process in the case I was referencing here,
Kathleen Ryan. Found Deceased - WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019


Burned beyond recognition: Illinois coroner works to ID remains found in Milwaukee teacher’s car
It's very difficult to get chemical forensics (DNA, organics, metals) from a car that was completely engulfed. The fire is enclosed and once the windows blow there is a ready supply of oxygen. The fire can get hot enough to melt aluminum and soften or sometimes melt steel. This mixes components of the car with material on/off the victims and destroys DNA and most other organics. A bullet might be spared. I don't know what the condition of the victims was in this case but I have read comments on local forums that there was little more than ashes.

In Kathleen's case the fire was hot, but was extinguished by firefighters and she was found in the passengers seat.
 

Mike in WNY

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A couple thoughts/observations...

The local (WNY-area) news has gone pretty silent on this. I'd imagine that's because law enforcement isn't releasing anything further at this point(?).

I'd find it almost unbelievable that there isn't a boatload of surveillance images of the "escaping" people. In addition to the municipal cameras already mentioned, that area of the city (Tonawanda St; Niagara St; Amherst St) is undergoing a fair amount of redevelopment... and those developers/builders/business most certainly have "eyes" all over their investments.

Also, what about hotel surveillance? Who checked in? Two people? Three people? Who left?
 

Curiousobserver

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A couple thoughts/observations...

The local (WNY-area) news has gone pretty silent on this. I'd imagine that's because law enforcement isn't releasing anything further at this point(?).

I'd find it almost unbelievable that there isn't a boatload of surveillance images of the "escaping" people. In addition to the municipal cameras already mentioned, that area of the city (Tonawanda St; Niagara St; Amherst St) is undergoing a fair amount of redevelopment... and those developers/builders/business most certainly have "eyes" all over their investments.

Also, what about hotel surveillance? Who checked in? Two people? Three people? Who left?
Agree- almost every intersection downtown has a camera plus all the new buildings, every sq. inch around the peace bridge is covered, Genesee street near the airport, the 33, 198 etc... There is no way those guys left that neighborhood without having at least 1 and more probably 10 pictures of them.

I think LE isn't releasing anything and once drugs became involved the victims get less sympathy and the news moves on.
 

Mike in WNY

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Agree- almost every intersection downtown has a camera plus all the new buildings, every sq. inch around the peace bridge is covered, Genesee street near the airport, the 33, 198 etc... There is no way those guys left that neighborhood without having at least 1 and more probably 10 pictures of them.

I think LE isn't releasing anything and once drugs became involved the victims get less sympathy and the news moves on.
No doubt. In addition two the two unidentified deceased individuals, there's (at least) two individuals unaccounted for... the two shown as "escaping."... what about their vehicle, y'know? Which way did they go - I assume their initial path was down Niagara to get to Potomac(?). Then where... back to Niagara... down to Grant... over to Forest? Maybe no matter... ultimately, I'd expect they hopped on 190(?).

BTW, where on Potomac is the house where the boy was found?

Also, i interpret BPD's Rinaldo's comment about 'somebody may have waited on the individuals' to be more than a simple off-the-cuff possibility. Possibly, they found a restaurant receipt or a take-out package(?). That's just my FWIW take on his comment.
 
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JerzeyGirl

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One person went in but two people plus the baby came out. Where is Damy then? I thought one of them was damy. Maybe police want him to think that he’s a victim in hopes that he’ll come forward as a victim but LE knows he’s in on it.

I think this was a set up for the drugs. Amateurs since they left the kid alive. A true professional would’ve killed the kid too.
 

NervousNellie

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One person went in but two people plus the baby came out. Where is Damy then? I thought one of them was damy. Maybe police want him to think that he’s a victim in hopes that he’ll come forward as a victim but LE knows he’s in on it.

I think this was a set up for the drugs. Amateurs since they left the kid alive. A true professional would’ve killed the kid too.
If it was a set up for drugs, why not take all the drugs? Why leave drugs in the hotel room?
 

JerzeyGirl

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If it was a set up for drugs, why not take all the drugs? Why leave drugs in the hotel room?

Because that’s all they brought to the meet up. Maybe those drugs were for another meet the next day? Maybe damy didn’t know they didn’t bring everything? Damy May just be the help and the two parents are calling the shots. Taking their room key and going back to the hotel would leave the perp way too open to being on cameras or identified. That would be way too risky. So they took what they could. Like I said, amateurs.
 

Mike in WNY

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If BPD's comment is accurate 'Damy' may not have been involved (with the fire), right? BPD claims that neither of the two "escaping" people is believed to be any of the three original 'missing' persons - one of which is Damy.

Three originally missing. Two deceased - speculated to be two of the original three. If so, just one missing person remains unaccounted for. Then there are two other unidentified persons seen "escaping"/running from the scene. Sooooo, there'd actually (still) be three people for which to look, right? Five people involved altogether. At least. Of course, if either/both of the deceased are not of the original three missing, then there's more people involved. Sheesh! [None of this includes the boy.]
 

Curiousobserver

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The fact that nobody went back to the hotel to pick up the drugs doesn't make any sense.

At least one of them would have offered those drugs up if they were going to be imminently murdered. "Hey wait- If you let us go I got a kilo more back at the hotel".

If you're a cold-blooded killer who is going to burn up all the evidence, why not kill the kid as well?

The only people there with an interest in that kid was their parents.

I just wouldn't be surprised if the Orlando trio turned out to be alive and well somewhere and this story turns out to be a whole lot more complicated than it seems to be.
 
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indicolite22

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The fact that nobody went back to the hotel to pick up the drugs doesn't make any sense.

At least one of them would have offered those drugs up if they were going to be imminently murdered. "Hey wait- If you let us go I got a kilo more back at the hotel".

If you're a cold-blooded killer who is going to burn up all the evidence, why not kill the kid as well?

The only people there with an interest in that kid was their parents.

I just wouldn't be surprised if the Orlando trio turned out to be alive and well somewhere and this story turns out to be a whole lot more complicated that it seems to be.
BBM. Maybe they were killed on the spot and there was no time for negotiation. I think it would have been risky to go back to the hotel and be seen.
 

therion20

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I think that is a bag of bricks of cocaine as well as a gas can, both taken from the scene. Is it possible a shooting took place (botched setup) elsewhere and perp got gas and drove the car with bodies there and called friend to come help with burning and a ride? Meaning the burning was premeditated but not necessarily until after the deaths, whether those were planned or not.
Since it was only about ten minutes I’m inclined to believe they were killed before and just brought there to eradicate the evidence in a more secluded spot
This is exactly what I think happened. They were dead when they got to that spot and whoever drove them there called the other suspect. They burned the car and ran away with the child. I see 2 gas cans in the picture and as the police stated the individuals on the video don't look like the 3rd missing person to me. JMO
 

Mike in WNY

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This is exactly what I think happened. They were dead when they got to that spot and whoever drove them there called the other suspect. They burned the car and ran away with the child. I see 2 gas cans in the picture and as the police stated the individuals on the video don't look like the 3rd missing person to me. JMO
Hmmmm. Interesting speculation. Could be, I suppose. In this theory, where is the third person of the Orlando trio... or what - if any - is that person's role?

Also - revealing my drug dealing naivety - how large (measurements-wise) would 4 pounds of cocaine be?
 
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therion20

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Hmmmm. Interesting speculation. Could be, I suppose. In this theory, where is the third person of the Orlando trio... or what - if any - is that person's role?
IMHO that person is also dead they just haven't found him yet. If he is behind all this, why not go back to the hotel and clean up the rest of the dope? Why keep the child alive that could identified him? Or he tipped whoever committed the murders to the money and drugs and went into hiding JMO.
 

JerzeyGirl

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IMHO that person is also dead they just haven't found him yet. If he is behind all this, why not go back to the hotel and clean up the rest of the dope? Why keep the child alive that could identified him? Or he tipped whoever committed the murders to the money and drugs and went into hiding JMO.

If he went back there are probably cameras and he would be identified.

Keep the child alive because he had a relationship with the kid. That would be too hard. This isn’t a hardened executioner that works for a cartel. They’ll kill whoever.
 

therion20

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If he went back there are probably cameras and he would be identified.

Keep the child alive because he had a relationship with the kid. That would be too hard. This isn’t a hardened executioner that works for a cartel. They’ll kill whoever.
That make sense too. But still he is not the one of the guys in the CCTV. JMO
 
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