NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by popsicle, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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  2. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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    Considering resisting arrest is illegal, I am not sure how anyone figures you have the 'right' to resist. jmo I like MOM.
     
  3. SCHMAE

    SCHMAE Well-Known Member

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    This is like the people who say smoking weed SHOULD be legal, so it's not illegal. ( although that number is dwindling with each election )
     
  4. Archangel7

    Archangel7 Verified Law Enforcement

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    I believe the actual case law and court rulings are based on an illegal arrest AND with excessive force. Seems the armed citizen was confronted, shot at by an unannounced officer without identifying himself as an officer or stating arrest intent(the officer didn't identify nor advise defendant of arrest intent(which was a misdemeanor, I think). Defendant returned fire fatally killing the officer.

    So (in my words)the Courts looked at any crime(i don't remember, maybe a threat about some trees, a misdemeanor) the fact the officer approached without ID and without stating intent to arrest, and then fired on the armed citizen(excessive force).

    Summary......illegal arrest resisted under those particular over reaching elements of fact.
     
  5. Muffet

    Muffet Autocorrect is my worst enema

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    ETA: replacing the quote with the actual post I meant to reply to. :crazy: not the one about pot. And no, it wasn't a Freudian misquote. I don't do that stuff. :innocent: I'm naturally dopey.
    _________________________


    Right. I posted this link last night.

    4 EMS Workers Suspended Without Pay in Chokehold Arrest

    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Island-Eric-Garner-Video-NYPD-267913291.html



    Sent from Tapatalk
     
  6. Muffet

    Muffet Autocorrect is my worst enema

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    Very eager to see this. I hope it holds something that explains the jury's decision in a good way.

    Sent from Tapatalk
     
  7. JLSChook

    JLSChook Well-Known Member

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    I'm waiting for the GJ info to be released. (If it will be at all)
    I'm back and forth on this one. I need more facts.

    That said, wrt to CPR and/or mouth to mouth:

    Mouth to mouth is not a requirement for CPR anymore. Actually many places you are taught CPR these days, advise against it.
    http://firstaid.about.com/od/cpr/a/07_Y_no_breaths.htm

    More importantly, in the video that I saw, EMS and/or LE said he was breathing after placing him on the stretcher. You don't do CPR on someone who is breathing, do you?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc
     
  8. Archangel7

    Archangel7 Verified Law Enforcement

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    To me, the facts of this case are along these lines as far as police responses.......

    At the Academies across the US there ARE classes on arrest, OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN, and the fact that Courts have ruled on resisting unlawful arrest. That class alone, should ground a Cadet into the proper thought process during an arrest to wit: it is a serious undertaking to arrest a citizen in a free and Democratic society and it will be scrutinized, as it should be and there are criteria that must exist in order to arrest, criteria necessary during arrest AND the appropriate use or lack of force to complete the arrest.

    If a LEO is somehow mistaken, it is better most of the time to comply fully and sort it out once he(the officer)feels in control of the situation.
     
  9. rob

    rob Active Member

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  10. Archangel7

    Archangel7 Verified Law Enforcement

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    Me too on the GJ release. I do know Academies teach or did, rear takedowns using head and or arms. The issue with a "chokehold"(blood restriction) was the fact not 100% of everyone recovered the same after its application. I believe all USMC cadets still go thru the training on each other, but I could be mistaken.

    Likely the issue of the chokehold is with the no apparent locking of the two arms together which is accepted as being needed to constitute a "chokehold." I would be more interested in facts around a "loosely" draped left arm(not necessarily squeezing the neck) with all the weight applied to Garner. IOW....if I have my arm around one's neck and everyone piles on, am I not likely to be placing pressure on Garner's neck anyway regardless? Might explain the unconsciousness yet still breathing.
     
  11. jggordo

    jggordo Well-Known Member

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    IIRC LE was called by local businesses, not only in this case but cases in the past to remove him from the fronts of their storefronts. <modsnip> I believe that the statements by him on the videotape that "you all are always hassling me" demonstrate that. There is much more to this story than is in the media, IMO. As in some other recent cases once all the facts are known, the actions and reactions of the incident need to be examined fully before making a decision one way or another.

    JMO's
     
  12. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    But you have to actually check if someone is breathing and continue to do so when dealing with an unresponsive person. Did not look like his stomach or chest were rising at all. Nobody seemed to show any signs of urgency to help him. EMS wasn't much better IMO.
     
  13. XXXXXXXX

    XXXXXXXX Former Member

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    I just saw the full, unedited video of the entire incident and it was chilling. Not so much the takedown, but the way LE and EMT reacted after Garner was unresponsive.

    Hell's bells. Even when the EMTs arrived they just felt his neck for a pulse and then just stood there looking at him for something like 3 minutes. It made me cry and I don't cry easily.

    Yes, I've posted that criminals should expect to be held accountable when finally confronted, but there's now no doubt in my mind, that NOTHING was done after the fact to actually help this man until it was too late.
     
  14. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    But if it is an illegal arrest I suppose you could legally resist. However it's probably not going to work out to well for you.
     
  15. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Also, if breathing quality is abnormal you can do rescue breathing.
     
  16. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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    Just announced, Judge will allow some GJ evidence to be released. (FOX)

    ABC News &#8207;@ABC 3m3 minutes ago
    Judge allows limited release of information from grand jury in Eric Garner case; does not allow release of actual evidence - @AaronKatersky
     
  17. popsicle

    popsicle faith hope love

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    Only if breathing is extremely shallow or intermittent... say 6-12/min. jmo
     
  18. XXXXXXXX

    XXXXXXXX Former Member

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    He was breathing, but an asthma sufferer's breaths don't carry enough oxygen to the blood. Any pulmonary condition causes reduced oxygen in the sufferer's blood supply. Maybe the EMTs weren't aware he was asthmatic. But they were certainly aware that he was unresponsive and it shouldn't have taken more than 3 minutes to decide to put him on a stretcher and get him to a hospital.

    I don't mean that to sound like I'm disagreeing with you, but I've NEVER seen a group of EMTs and LE just stand around staring at an unresponsive person for over three minutes before getting their rears in gear.
     
  19. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    There is no crime, from jaywalking to murder that should allow mistreatment from cops. It has nothing to do with the crime or the character of the person involved. JMO
     
  20. Zuri

    Zuri Well-Known Member

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    Hard to tell from the video angle, but IMO, Garner did not look like he was moving much air. Granted he was morbidly obese, but he did not appear to be gasping. He looked non responsive. I didn't see one cop check for a pulse. They just made sure he was cuffed on on his side. The ideal position would have been flat on his back with attention paid to his airway, by opening it. The folds of his neck and chin in that position, may have limited his breathing and occluded his airway partially or fully. When I saw the EMT arrive, I thought for sure they would give him O2. NOT. Don't cops carry O2 as well?

    IMO, as an ER RN for many years,and having coded many an obese person, Mr Garner's condition was not handled well at all. Actually IMO, negligently. JMV
     

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