NY NY - Stacy-Ann Sappleton, 26, Queens, 10 May 2004

[Newswolf]

Interesting theory Babcat.

http://www.canada.com/windsor/story.asp?id=CCDCA25D-87CB-493F-A28B-4B09328CAB55

"The detectives also said they were looking at surveillance footage from a building down the street that may have caught what happened outside the Blairs' home last Friday and might help determine whether Sappleton was dropped there at all."

I hope they have something on that tape.

"But the former U.S. marine turned Detroit management consultant loves to talk about her. He and his family still do so in the present tense, as though she's still there, talking and laughing.

"She has the biggest laugh," says Damion. "She literally dies laughing, so she can hardly breathe."

That story also says the neighborhood is very safe and such crimes are rare there.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/24136.htm

"A Canadian woman found dead in a Queens trash truck, stripped to her bra and panties, was a helpless romantic with a passion for "The Lord of the Rings" and Stephen King's ghoulish novels, her fiancé said. "

There's a photo as well of the would-be groom.

 

[turbosleuthing]

Does anyone remember reading if her jewelry was missing (was she wearing any?) Does anything say what she was wearing. Perhaps robbery was a motive. I'm not really buying the ex high school girlfriend.

Could have been a set up too. Maybe the boyfriend gave her a wrong address and she didn't know. That could be why the cab driver is saying he dropped her off at the correct spot.


Just some thoughts

 

[Newswolf]

From the first MSNBC story "The future in-laws reported the woman missing on Saturday and circulated fliers with her photo. The fliers said she was last seen wearing blue pants, a blue long-sleeve top, a jeans jacket and a gray vest. "

I don't know about jewelry.

 

[Babcat]

Does anyone remember reading if her jewelry was missing (was she wearing any?) Does anything say what she was wearing. Perhaps robbery was a motive. I'm not really buying the ex high school girlfriend.

Could have been a set up too. Maybe the boyfriend gave her a wrong address and she didn't know. That could be why the cab driver is saying he dropped her off at the correct spot.


Just some thoughts

The ex girlfriend idea might seem like a stretch... but even a small woman with a gun is going to gain control of the victim, even if the victim is larger than she. A woman killer (with a possible accomplice) fits the profile of the way Stacy was found.

MULTIPLE GUN SHOT WOUNDS are the signature of rage... overkill. Whoever shot her either harbored a deep seeded hatred of Stacy or was extremely enraged at the moment.

NO GUNSHOT WOUNDS TO THE HEAD. This is going to rule out a murder for hire, or at least a hit man. Professional killers prefer one shot to the head. Also it is usually WOMEN who are reluctant to shoot their victims in the head. Why that is the case is really a puzzle. Women killers are actually more likely to hack someone to death with an axe... a pretty gory and violent choice for getting the job done... than they are to shoot their victims in the head execution style. However they don't seem as reluctant to shoot their victims in the face... go figure.

A VIOLENT FIGHT AND STRUGGLE as suggested by the multiple bruises and signs of a beating. Yes... women do struggle against male attackers. But those women are usually found beaten and either stabbed (minority of the time) or strangled (majority of the time). Why is this? Women will fight back against a man who appears unarmed or even one who has only a knife. But struggling against a man holding a gun to you is almost certain death. And multiple bruises mean this wasn't an intitial blow to the head or face to stun and disable a victim. This was either a prolonged beating or a prolonged fight. Stacy was murdered with a gun... so we know her killer had a gun. A gun subdues almost immediately... unless the victim has reason to believe she has a chance to disarm her attacker... like she might be on even ground... like another woman.

EVIDENCE THAT STACY WAS HELD ALIVE SOMEWHERE FOR A DAY OR TWO BEFORE SHE WAS MURDERED, YET NO EVIDENCE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. Without a ransom call there is unlikely to be any motive for holding a victim alive (a very risky proposition) save a sexual motive, with the exception of revenge or jealousy, or both.

THE BODY DUMPED WITHOUT OUTER GARMENTS BUT WITH UNDERGARMENTS. A sexual sadist would have left the body nude. Stacy wasn't redressed... she was never UNdressed. The taking of her clothes and things has two meanings. A possible delay in identification and the act of taking her clothing to humiliate her and to keep them for oneself... also jealous revenge. Someone who had no reason to believe he or she could be connected to the victim in any way (a random attack) would have cared less about delaying an ID.

In this case I believe someone besides the killer knows what happened. I don't believe a single person could have lifted the dead weight of Stacy's body high enough to discard her in a dumpster... certainly not an average sized woman killer, if the killer was a woman. But if there was an accomplice, I believe it was after the fact.

 

[Camper]

Lets just hope that the video gives more finite clues as to where she was let out of the cab!

No sexual assault may also indicate that the murderer was just after things of monetary value. She had luggage and was just let out of a cab, perhaps someone in sight of this happening, thought she had drugs in the luggage or?

Perhaps 'our' murderer lives on the block within sight of where the cab stopped. IF IF so, then it would have been 'perhaps' a quick approach with the offer of help to call from their home. It would also expedite and make the attack easier out of sight.

Wonder if those homes have garages or where do the owners park their cars, in an alley, quick and easy out the back door to the alley, knocked her senseless then shot her elsewhere. Finding her in the dump truck, baffles me, let out of cab one day, and couple days or so later she is dead in the truck. Why keep her if no sexual assault? Were they quizzing her about potential drug connection, might she look like an (expected person that day-drug connection) or what? Mistaken identity, hmmm.

I suspect that normal looking people living rather normal lives get involved with drugs and may have drug connections, it certainly does not appear to be the case here or does it ????

GET THE BLOODHOUNDS - they had them for 9-11 did they all go home to Iowa with the dogs?????

 

[Babcat]

Camper,

They might have already used the dogs. In fact I suspect they have. I have a feeling they have a good idea who might have done the crime and are keeping tight lipped about it.

Mistaken identity could be the case. However I would more suspect that as a good lead if the attacker had not held her for at least several hours... maybe two days? I would think anyone willing to keep her alive rather than the typical rush in, kill, rush out, style of drug shootings on the street, would have been certain he had the wrong person by the time she was killed. Or maybe he didn't have the wrong person.

You could be on to something Camper. A strictly business drug revenge killing would likely not present as a sexual assault. How about if it wasn't Stacy Ann that was involved with drugs, but Damion. Maybe someone waited and abducted her and then called Damien to tell him they had her and he better come up with their money.

The problems with this theory...
I believe she would have been shot execution style. Now I might change my opinion on that if forensics reveal the shots entered through her back instead of front. Maybe she was escaping and they shot her in the process. She could have been being held in only her bra and panties to disuade her from running.

 

[Camper]

pretty well. Seems like there was a loving closeness among them all.

Newswolf sent this link to me.

http://www.canada.com/windsor/story.asp?id=CCDCA25D-87CB-493F-A28B-4B09328CAB55

I assume everyone in the neighborhood pretty much works. Damian's mom must be an older woman with no small children. Both mom and dad worked. Would this be typical in 'that' neighborhood, IF IF that is the case, then few people at home at about 9:30 in the morning.

Perhaps an unemployed person would have been home, to see some easy prey when Stacy-Ann appeared,I am stretching it here, but.

Was a silencer used, where would she have been shot? Would that many shots in a 'nice' neighborhood go unnoticed, well IF IF everyone was at work, who would hear the shots?

Damian 'seems' like a standup guy, he was a Marine for heavens sake, they are not wimps by any stretch.

IF IF it was a person that lived in the neighborhood, HOW do you get the body away, where are residents cars parked. Is it sort of an Archie Bunker neighborhood with a back door out of the kitchen. Archie did not have a car.

I never caught on, just how far from that neighborhood was she found?

Was this a racial predjudice killing?

It looks like another great big boatload of sadness for both families.

I hope this story does not get lost in the 'just another' killing in NYC.

 

[Newswolf]

http://www.canada.com/windsor/story.asp?id=9244FB73-C680-4C9A-9043-9C9F1F5282CF

"Funeral arrangements for the 26-year-old bride-to-be -- whose bruised and bullet-ridden body was discovered in the back of a garbage truck in the sprawling New York borough of Queens May 10 -- have been set for Saturday in Toronto. Meanwhile, the New York Police Department said Monday it had no new information to release on the hunt for Sappleton's murderer.

"That investigation is still ongoing," said Det. Kevin Czartoryski."

Camper I believe she was dumped 5 miles from the neighborhood.

 

[Camper]

Thank you for the link. Sad.

I am wondering what type of garbage truck they found her in?

Here where I live the driver never leaves the truck, unless he tips over the container he is emptying. It is an automatic truck with controls inside the truck for arms that reach out and pick the container up, lift it and dump the garbage container into the hopper at the top of the truck.

Just how would the body have been put into the back of the truck, without the driver having seen someone come to the truck. Not knowing what type of truck Stacy-Ann was found in hampers my brain power (whatever is left of it).

Where was the driver, did the driver spot the body, or someone else who was passing the truck, while the driver was elsewhere?

 

[Ghostwheel]

We have two different types of trucks here, the automated ones like Camper mentioned, and one with an open back for dumping greens cans into (the old style garbage trucks).

Some of the automated ones dump dumpsters in from the front, so it could easily have been that the body was dumped in a dumpster, then into the truck. (my guess)

If it was the old fashioned kind, possible that it got left in there during a lunch break?:waitasec:

 

[Camper]

I would also guess that the dumpster had some non visible qualities to provide a sneaky person to dump the body in. The murderer may have known that the day that she was found was a regular trash pick up day, er, huh?

Wonder if the murderer works in that area to know what the trash pick up day was?

The day Stacy-Ann went missing was a weekday, if I recall, so the person must work a later shift, cuz at 9:30 am they woulda been at work and not at home, er not on the street to pick her up, er, just were not a worker type anyhow.

Sure not getting a lot of news via the NYC papers on followup.

Wonder how large a person Stacy-Ann was, if they could have put her in a large trash bag, so as not to attract attention, probably not, hmmm.

=======After thought, cannot remember the day of week when she was found in the truck, probably not a weekend.

Ghostwheel do they do trash pick up on weekends in NYC?

 

[Ghostwheel]

Don't know NYC, sorry, forgot to specify I live in So Ca. But again, around here, many dumpsters are picked up on Saturdays and weekdays. Garbage trucks are in and out of the dump all day Saturday.

 

[Newswolf]

Just went back & re-read NYT articles. I can't post more from them because of the copyright laws. May13th article says she arrived in NY on a Friday morning, her mother called her cell @ 11am and it went straight to voicemail. Her body was discovered by "a truck driver emptying dumpsters @ a supermarket". She withdrew 40 bucks from an ATM at the airport to pay for the cab ride, and when she told boyfriend by cell she was ok (9:18am), the fare was $24, and she allegedly was at the block where the family lived, or not, and someone may have offered her help, and that may have been when disappeared. She made three more calls by 9:50am, the last to a cousin in NY. By 11am she wasn't answering her cell phone. They can find no evidence she was in the future-in-law's house, and no evidence of a crime committed there. No evidence yet that she was sexually assaulted, more tests are being run. I know there are more questions than answers. ?? I wonder where the cousin lived and if he/she has been questioned. I'm sure that person has been. Stacey-Ann just had a carryon-bag, a purse, neither located nor the clothes she was wearing. In a way this does not sound like a stranger killing to me either, the blows to the face , 3 shots, holding her for a couple of days. Anyway I can't find anything more so far on the net.

 

[Babcat]

This case is especially frustrating because there are scenarios to explain how she was taken from the scene without anything seeming to be amiss. But...

WHY would she be taken from the scene at all? I would have thought the Peterson case, despite having not yet gone to trial, would have served as a training video for anyone contemplating the murder of a person in his/her extreme inner circle. Only a person who had reason to believe the victim could be connected to him would put in the extra effort moving a dead body requires. But a smart member of her extreme inner circle would be more careful not to leave DNA evidence, semen, etc. And then that person would leave her right where she was killed. Doing that one simple thing seriously broadens the circle of whodunits.

And then there is the apparent live hostage for possibly a couple of days...

What could be the motive for this? No ransom call. There really hasn't been mention of the in-laws family or her family being wealthy. So it isn't surprising that there was no ransom call. It is surprising that there isn't any other clear or reasonable explanation that could shed light on the need for the hostage situation. If they have to look and test that carefully, there almost surely wasn't a sexual assault. Any psychopath that overkills a victim with five plus gunshots, isn't exactly going to be Mr. Gentleman during a rape. There would be obvious signs of sexual assault.

The police are working a scenario that does not include the in-law's home as a crime scene.

I have to trust their judgement on this call. Luminol would glow so bright it would light the house up if she sustained that many gunshots inside that home. There would be bullet fragments... obvious signs of recent patch work in the plaster walls... blood that has seeped into places not easily cleaned. I don't care how much cleaning up was done. So if the in-laws home is not considered a crime scene, there would be no need to speculate how a killer would remove her dead body from the house unnoticed. She had to have left that house still alive and most likely uninjured... or she never reached the house at all. In either scenario she had to have left with suspect X voluntarily... or at gunpoint putting up no struggle.

 

[Camper]

True LE did not have item of Stacy-Anns for a bloodhound to follow the day her body was found.

The house that I might heavily suspect would NOT be the future in laws house. IF IF the only known witness saw Stacy NOT at the in laws front door but a distance from their front door, I am heavily suspecting that a 'different' door in the near near area was the portal through which Stacy-Ann entered but never came out of.

Stacy-Anns mom came quickly to NYC, my question was did she bring an item of Stacy's for a bloodhound. IF LE could but track her to any door in the neighborhood, that would be a beginning, while she was alive.

Doubtful there would be signs of bullets entering or lodging, bouncing or in any way leaving signs IN the trash truck.

So obvious that she was shot elsewhere, where there may IN FACT be blood stains and crime signs in THAT home, er, huh.

IF IF that is the case then a cadaver dog, could possibly track her death scent from the back of 'THE HOME' wherever 'THE HOME' might be in the neighborhood.

IF IF however Stacy was taken elsewhere to be shot, then this is a clever killer indeed. Would a neighborhood criminal, punk, robber, do this type of killing?

IF IF Stacy was left off in a not familiar place, chances are unlikely that 'the killer' was waiting specifically for 'her'. Do NYC Yellow cabs have a protective divider between passenger and cabbie, for their own safety? IF so, this could have allowed the cabbie to have made a 'personal cell phone' call unheard by Stacy, to 'set her up for a robbery', assuming that she had a large amount of cash to be gotten, just coming from the airport. Grasping at straws here again.

I am wondering about a 72 year old man driving a Yellow cab, you hear a lot of jokes about NYC cabbies not speaking good English, cab driving seems to attract ethnic varieties who cannot speak good English, hmmm. More straws here.

I somehow think the cabbie has more to do with this than has become too obvious so far.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Sceanario that could easily happen in San Diego.
Assume cabbie, being 72, might make a mistake on the address and be off a street or two.

Stacy-Ann gets dropped in the wrong location. She see that the address is not correct. and wanders on direction looking to see if numbers go up or down. Around here, there are some streets that change names from one direction to the other, and change numbers when the street name changes. She could have walked several blocks the wrong drection. That can take you from a barely passable neighborhood to a really not good one.

1) If someone thought she was their drug contact and trying to hold out on them, they might have grabbed her, and held her trying to get information, and going through her bags.

2) Someone might have said they would help her, and led her off with the intention of raping her, but something interfered with their plans. (roomie had drug deal going, didn't want any witnesses, etc)

Heck, we're always finding bodies around here no one claims. Put an innocent in the really wrong place, and their chances of getting out in one piece are not so good. (most areas are OK, BTW, there are just a few that are pretty bad, and a couple of pockets here and there)

As an aside, there is one area of Pasedena (Los Angeles area) where you go from a good neighborhood to "Don't take your eyes off your car." just by crossing a large main street.

 

[Babcat]

Pssst... Ghostwheel

It's spelled Pyrrhonist

 

[Newswolf]

http://www.canada.com/windsor/story.asp?id=83EE9DC0-92C4-4B9D-925A-053C94EF79D5

"Lieut. Ed Rutter said the detectives flew out of New York Wednesday, but he refused to say whether they'll begin the Canadian leg of their investigation in Toronto, where Sappleton's family lives, or in Windsor-Detroit, where her fiance, friends and co-workers reside."

 

[Ghostwheel]

Pssst... Ghostwheel

It's spelled Pyrrhonist

How bizarre! I copied and pasted that straight out of m-w.com (because I couldn't remember how to spell it). I must have touched the touchpad and deleted a letter (one of my favorite pastimes, it seems). Must fix that, along with several other typos.

Thank you.

 

[Arielle]

How bizarre! I copied and pasted that straight out of m-w.com (because I couldn't remember how to spell it). I must have touched the touchpad and deleted a letter (one of my favorite pastimes, it seems). Must fix that, along with several other typos.

Thank you.

What does it mean?