SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by Kid Dropsy, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Aha. This is making more sense to me. I misunderstood and thought the mom said that the USA was ordering the family to leave because of the sisters' request for asylum. Yes, what you write is possible. Thanks.

    jmo
     
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  2. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    Everything is about as clear as mud to me in this case lol. I have so many questions about things that are unclear to me. If I have time tomorrow I’d like to start from the beginning and make a list of facts, possible facts, incorrect statements, and the sources of each.
     
  3. alekto

    alekto Active Member

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    If they were alive when they went in the water, they could have screamed out for help. Their mouths were not taped shut. This is still very strange.
     
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  4. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    Their arms weren’t tied either so they could have tried to swim/splash. FOr all we know they could have done so, but if they were murdered, it seems weird their arms/hands and mouths weren’t duct taped.
     
  5. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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    I think it's not at all certain that the 2 girls actually filed for asylum. There are a lot of conflicting pieces of information in articles in the last 24-48 hours.

    https://nypost.com/2018/10/30/sisters-found-dead-duct-taped-together-had-applied-for-asylum/

    Authorities believe Va. sisters found by Hudson River were alive when they entered water, source says

    NYPD Denies Releasing Information On Slain Saudi Sisters Seeking Asylum In US
     
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  6. Elainera

    Elainera Well-Known Member

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    I would guess they were drugged.
     
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  7. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to find the original quote from LE where they say the mom told them about the call from the SA embassy. It seems this originated in a NY post article, which doesn’t quote LE, but says “police sources say...”

    Eta just saw k_z’s more detailed post on the same subject, thanks
     
  8. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    That does point to suicide rather than murder.

    If they are out on a pier (as is my theory) at night and were tricked into being there, would they have screamed while being taped. It makes sense that they would. Maybe they did? A pier at night, even in a huge city, isn't heavily trafficked at night. Or, maybe the screams ended quickly so if anyone did happen to hear them, the person wouldn't be overly concerned because the screams ended. IDK.

    Screams or lack of screams could be a clue....or not. We haven't heard of any witnesses anywhere along the river as of yet that saw or heard anything suspicious.

    jmo
     
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  9. alekto

    alekto Active Member

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    Did either of them have a cellphone? I would be shocked if they didn't have phones with them. I did read that they were not active on social media.
     
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  10. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    For all we know, their arms were zipped inside the coats rather than in the armholes. LE said they were in coats and we're assuming they mean the sisters were wearing the coats in the normal way. Maybe they weren't?

    IDK. jmo.
     
  11. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan Well-Known Member

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    The George Washington bridge that connects New York to New Jersey is very long and very high up. Possibly like being thrown from the 20th floor of an apartment building. So if they did jump or got thrown off the bridge. Then I doubt screaming in the water would be doable nor heard.

    Jmo.
     
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  12. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    I thought the GWB has been ruled out - no video of them going off the bridge??

    jmo
     
  13. Alethea

    Alethea Verified Attorney

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    If they jumped or were pushed off the GWB, they'd be dead on impact. There'd be no swimming or screaming. Also, the ME would have seen traumatic injuries.

    What I don't understand is if they wanted to commit suicide, why would you slowly drown off a pier choking to death rather than jump off one of the many bridges, instantly dying. That's the lure for many to jump off the bridges.
     
  14. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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    If they were murdered in a cultural punishment, that would be extremely odd. There is the strong idea in cultural islamic punishment murders that the condemned should be shown "mercy" and allowed to speak the shahaddah, pray, and/ or recite the koran as they experience their final moments.

    This is because of the concept of repentance, and is seen as being especially merciful to the condemned. If the words of the shahaddah and prayer are on their lips as their final words/ thoughts, it is believed Allah will be merciful and grant forgiveness.

    Taping them bound together facing one another is another way, IMO, that they were made to "face" what they had done together, their rebellious behavior, and have a chance to embrace and pray, comfort one another in their deaths, and express repentance, as they die. A way for them to save their souls.

    This may seem very strange to some, but to me, the method of their deaths as ritual cultural murders indicates someone was trying to make their murders "easy" for them to bear. Perhaps signalling to the family that it was necessary to punish the girls with death, but that the murderers made it as merciful and easy as possible, and for them to be able to repent at the end and save their souls.

    I am not surprised their mouths were not taped shut, or their arms restrained. Islamic ritual murder is frequently justified in that culture as necessary, but merciful and honorable. They are being helped from committing further sin, rebellion, dishonor. Essentially, "cleansed" by death.

    Additionally, death punishment water drownings are viewed as a “soft” and easy form of death, and "merciful". And "cleaner." As in, showing a perverse kind of mercy to poor wayward young females by drowning them, which is less violent than other more violent methods of murder/ execution, such as stabbing, etc.

    It may seem very hard to understand, for westerners. Most western perceptions would be that that binding them facing together is additionally unspeakably cruel and sadistic, revenge-like. Murder was bad enough, but binding them facing each other ups the sadism factor.

    Toxicology results will take about 6 weeks, but I'd be really surprised if they test positive for anything. That would, IMO, be highly unusual, whether they were murdered, or committed a bizarre suicide.

    I know some think this is a double suicide, but I just don't see one single thing that persuades me that this could be suicide. IMO, this has all the hallmarks of a ritual cultural murder.
     
  15. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    Possible. But why would LE leave that out and not the feet and waists being duct taped?
     
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  16. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Bridges aren't so easy to jump off. Yes, there are jumpers all the time, but they aren't young women (usually) and they aren't duct-taped together.

    I think it was easier and perhaps assumed to be less painful to slide off a pier into the water (assuming suicide) and also more easily concealed (suicide or murder).

    The fact they were not seen at all going in the water is one reason I think they slid/were pushed off a pier during the night - as there are likely no cameras, no traffic, no witnesses like there would be on area bridges.

    jmo
     
  17. Inthedetails

    Inthedetails Well-Known Member

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    Leaving out details only the killer would know? IDK.
     
  18. musicaljoke

    musicaljoke Well-Known Member

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    I remember when the Shafia sisters were killed that we assumed they must have been drugged. There was just no other way to explain how they ended up in the water. But, although autopsy reports showed that they were drowned, there was no evidence of any kind of sedative.

    It was believed that they were drowned somewhere else prior to being put into the car and pushed into the canal, possibly at a hotel where they stopped that evening. Did someone hold their heads under water in the toilet? That might have explained the bruising on the crown of their heads.

    I wonder if the Farea sisters could also have been drowned somewhere else and then dumped in the river. I realise that LE said they were alive when they went into the river, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that they were pre-drowned, so to speak.

    Inside the Shafia killings that shocked a nation
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  19. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    If it’s accurate that one of the times the girls ran away they were placed into a shelter by LE, I wonder what made LE decide a shelter was a better place for the girls (especially since tala was a minor) than with their own family.
     
  20. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    True, but in the beginning they seemed to be strongly leaning towards suicide. It is possible though.
     
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