SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by Kid Dropsy, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. OneEye

    OneEye Former Member

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    Completely agree and share your view as many questions still remain.

    Your comment about the press coverage is interesting as the NYC press is generally better than most IMO based on past cases. But over the past few years it seems that budget levels at most media outlets for true old style investigative journalism have been slashed and so getting quality reporting on anything but the most high profile cases has been challenging at best. Maybe this case will be lucky and get some investigative journalist to delve into the story and address the wonderful questions you have raised. I hope so as I believe these sisters deserve better from the NY press than they have received.

    If you have access to SM then I would suggest sending your fantastic questions to some of the reporters following the case via Twitter as this has been an effective tactic on other missing cases. Oftentimes the reporters will see the WS comments but not always so using SM can be quite effective in my experience.
     


  2. alekto

    alekto Active Member

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    Is it normalized for the press to focus on specific suicide cases? It seems that suicide is what has been concluded so far. I realize that the investigation is ongoing from what was presented in the NYPD press conference.
     
  3. Oceans1111

    Oceans1111 Member

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    Thanks, OneEye. So true about the investigative reporting these days - a lot fewer people/resources to cover just as many, if not more, stories. I don’t use it all that often, but I do have a Twitter account. Will check it now
     
  4. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes Well-Known Member

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    Speaking about the asylum request, everyone has denied that they told the media or discussed that. Even the 'cross configuration' of how they were connected, that was quoted for days in the media, was not disputed by the police. So there's also the questions of who is leaking false information to the press.
    The police also didn't say when the credit card use stopped. They mention it being maxed out, but not when. Or if they had used other forms of payment. For two women trying to live under the radar, you'd think using a credit card would be the last thing they'd do.
    Edit: If anyone wants to see the condition of one of the bodies, seen from a distance, there's a photo in this article. You can see how the duct tape was wrapped around them. The individual is face down, which tells me that this was the one who was on the bottom and after they removed the one on top (being carried away in the same photo), they rolled her over to take more photos.
    The larger version of the image can be seen by right clicking, getting the image info, pasting it into a new browser window and deleting everything after .jpg.
    Cops Seek Surveillance Video For Two Dead Sisters Found Bound By Duct Tape In River
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  5. glenluce devil

    glenluce devil Former Member

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    When will this case be considered solved? Seems pretty solved now, iykwim.
     
  6. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    RSBM. No offense taken at all or thought that you were insinuating anything toward me.


    I am usually not a believer in whatever I am told. And, I am not in this case. However, diving into a conspiracy and not trusting the info given to date doesn't make sense to me.

    These girls weren't high profile. I can't imagine that the Saudis would be out doing things like Khashoggi on US soil. Is it possible? Yes. Probable? No. IMHO.

    So, was this an honor killing? Maybe. But, we are not aware of any evidence that these young women were near anyone, even strangers, in the time they were in NY. We do hear NYPD say that they are still putting the last five or six days together. Could they have met with killers? Totally. Could they have been shamed into killing themselves or guilted into it? Absolutely, we know that abused people can be highly susceptible to influence and harm others or themselves.

    Might many here be correct that the girls died days earlier? Yes. We have not seen the autopsy and the estimated time/day of death. The LEO/ME are holding many things close.

    Could witnesses have seen others? Yes. Do I think that the NYPD would give us a bit of that info if they were not absolutely sure? No, as it is not what usually happens.

    My thinking is to go with what the police are giving us. Ask questions. And, not get so bogged down in conspiracy that we miss the obvious.

    As to your questions--- I do think they may have had a footprint but it was probably very well hidden and unless you know them you won't find it. Many people are very careful. They had family watching and, potentially, the government watching.

    The older sister was said to have been at George Mason University. Did she make friends outside of the Saudi community? If yes, I think people would be talking (just like the neighbor that the mom talked to). However, women in the Saudi community know that you can't speak up or act out without repercussions, so I would expect that if this woman's contacts/friends were within her community, we won't hear of it. (We know that reporting abuse was handled very quietly-- as it should be.) If you don't make friends in western communities, the idea is that people will hold your secrets and also keep themselves safe from repercussions.

    The credit card and spending is very odd, especially since they had been living in a shelter for nine months. That to me is the biggest conundrum. Did they make a deal that they could live in NYC for a period of time and come home? Was it a ruse to have them come home or get them home because everything could be traced--- so dad or brother or someone could show up and force them home? Or, was it a credit card in one of their names and unconnected? We don't know. I think this is what the NYPD is working on still.

    The part of the river they were at (if the playground women in prayer were them) is a walk in site with a rocky, sandy shore. It is possible to wrap themselves there with the tape and enter the water? Yes. The roll of tape would sink. ( I never use scissors for duct tape, but that is me.) Did they drown with water in their lungs or the windpipe closing (leaving the lungs not filled with water for a period of time)? We don't know. Were they in the water for hours or days? Maybe they had a floatation device with them and maybe the device separated from them after the died. Maybe they died of hypothermia and not drowning so they didn't sink? I don't know and I am not a forensic scientist. But, somehow the NYPD thinks they died on the day they were found and without evidence to the contrary we can only conjecture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  7. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    The NYPD does not do what many LEO do when it comes to cases. They don't comment unless they want to do so at intervals. They did say unequivocally that the young women were not in a cross like position and that there was no evidence to support a fall from the GWB.

    Many outlets (the NY POST as one outlet that sourced the cross-like position, IIRC) work to get the scoop on others. Since it is sources that are referenced, we know sources can be reliable or unreliable so unless it is said outright (like much early on in this case) we can only go with the official statements.

    I think it is telling that the credit card use stop date was not disclosed. I would guess that it was the 5 or 6 days prior as that it the last official word from NYPD. And, I have no doubt we will find out about those days before the case is closed.
     
  8. musicaljoke

    musicaljoke Well-Known Member

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  9. Alethea

    Alethea Verified Attorney

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    Is this customary? Do families usually do this? I'm not sure I understand what they mean by residents of Medina - just people who live in the city?
     
  10. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    I guess somehow all was accomplished wrt their burial.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  11. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Yes, I still have questions and doubts as well.
    I just hope, now that the burial/services have been accomplished, that the NYPD will let the public know their final report of this sad incident. Let's hope we'll soon hear more. And can a report on an incident such as this ever be definitely determined?

    I'll believe double suicide when the NYPD tells us how they arrived at that conclusion, if it does turn out to be their conclusion. I'm still not convinced.
     
  12. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Welcome to Websleuths, Oceans1111 !!
     
  13. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    There's got to be a lot of CCTV, etc., to see and evaluate. And how far out and around did NYPD want to observe? Is NYPD sure of where they were living those last several days?
    Maybe the sisters decided that before they left for KSA or their double suicide (who knows which??) that they would live it up for a few days -- good food, shopping, luxury hotel, movies, sight seeing, etc., etc.
     
  14. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Thanks, and a belated
    Welcome to Websleuths, SammieJean!!

    Good info! That protocol is essentially how it is where I live, too. The ME is in charge of the bodies and scene until he/she gives the scene over to LE. The ME will direct LE what to do with the body -- which is to have it delivered to the ME's office for autopsy if the scene and/or COD is suspicious.
     
  15. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Good points, Elley Mae, thanks for the article.

    A couple of things in the article confuse me, and please know that nothing in your post confused me at all! :)

    I may have missed an MSM article somewhere...
    This article says the women were seen by a jogger on Oct. 24th with their heads down, apparently praying, and later the same day, the bodies were found. An earlier report said that their bodies had been exposed to the water for some time.

    Now which is it -- or did I mis-read the earlier MSM article? Or was the jogger mistaken about when s/he had seen two women probably praying or were the two women not the two sisters? Or is it that I have misunderstood or imagined something? D'oh is me. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  16. kaen

    kaen Trying to be a good human.

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    The easiest way that I have justified the information from prior to the NYPD press conference is that the news outlets were stringing side conversations and anything they could conjecture. The officer at the press conference cleared up a couple of fallacies out there.
     
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  17. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes Well-Known Member

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    Is this even a real story? I mean, we've been told that the family came from Jeddah. Medina is a 4 hour drive north of Jeddah. Wasn't the mother and father involved in the ceremony? Nothing is even mentioned of them in the article. Very strange.

    The police claim that the eyewitness was 'credible', but haven't really given us much to believe anything more than perhaps two women were seen praying, but how can they say it was these two sisters?
    And yes, the bodies would have been in the water for more than just a day if they were floating in the river. A drowning victim, especially fully clothed (even in boots) would sink, unless they were attached to some flotation device. The only way they would float is after some decomposition had taken place, bacteria in the bodies would have created enough air inside to make the bodies buoyant.
     
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  18. OneEye

    OneEye Former Member

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  19. OneEye

    OneEye Former Member

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    It will be interesting to see what the NYPD release about the timeline of the last 6 days before the sisters were found. One of the MSM articles made the statement that the sisters hadn't been in the water for long and frankly I was never sure what this meant exactly. Could the sisters have been in the water for 5-6 days and this mean they 'weren't in the water for a long time'?
     
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  20. Shlock Homes

    Shlock Homes Well-Known Member

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    That's a reason why I was surprised at the police so readily accepted that the sisters were seen the same morning 'praying' at a park several miles upstream. They kept saying at the news conference how the sisters could easily just walk into the water. But gave no explanation as to how they would have floated down stream in less than 5 hours, if they would have sunk. And if you look at google satellite view, you will see a long pier directly north of where their bodies were found, so that would have been a barrier.
    Their bodies were only on the rocks after the tide went out, according to all the news reports of that day, the bodies were seen floating and that's when the police were alerted. The police must know about how drowning victims sink, I think the preliminary examination indicated they must have been dead for some time, long enough to float from George Washington bridge until they ruled that out due to lack of video footage of them.
     

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