NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

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bears10

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Good point. I do remember how smooth our limo rides were, and I felt safe and protected -- I guess it's just how a ride like that can affect someone who doesn't experience it that often. The rides were so smooth and quiet, I could tell we were not rolling at breakneck speed wherever we were. It was a luxury ride, so we rode at a luxurious rate, especially in NYC, Baltimore, and NOLA.

I don't think this doomed party had that same floating feeling when they took their final ride, however. SMH. At least one passenger commented on her cellphone that the limo was very loud, etc., etc.

Oh in this case I absolutely think it's likely the passengers would have put on seat belts if they were available. The victims were clearly uneasy with the state of the limo and it's such a shame they didn't have the option to put on a seat belt. Idk whether or not seat belts would have saved their lives in this case, but maybe they would have.
 

alibrarian

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A few more details not in other articles, from interviews with Janet Steenburg and Kim Steenburg.

"God made a mistake": Family remembers brothers lost in Schoharie limo crash

Something that does stand out is the comment:

"The limousine had crashed into the parking lot of Apple Barrel Country Store in Schoharie, killing two bystanders and 18 people inside the limo. Police found the rental receipt in Axel's name inside the limo and followed the registration plates of the cars parked at Axel and Amy's house to find Kim. She was the first family member of the 20 victims to learn about the deadliest transportation disaster in the U.S. since 2009."

But, other reports indicate the front of the limo was completely wrecked, with the engine pushed into the passenger area. Does this seem at odds to anyone else? I guess it could also be a misquote.
 

bears10

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A few more details not in other articles, from interviews with Janet Steenburg and Kim Steenburg.

"God made a mistake": Family remembers brothers lost in Schoharie limo crash

Something that does stand out is the comment:

"The limousine had crashed into the parking lot of Apple Barrel Country Store in Schoharie, killing two bystanders and 18 people inside the limo. Police found the rental receipt in Axel's name inside the limo and followed the registration plates of the cars parked at Axel and Amy's house to find Kim. She was the first family member of the 20 victims to learn about the deadliest transportation disaster in the U.S. since 2009."

But, other reports indicate the front of the limo was completely wrecked, with the engine pushed into the passenger area. Does this seem at odds to anyone else? I guess it could also be a misquote.

Maybe the receipt was given to axel and he put it on the seat or floor or something.
 

borndem

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A few more details not in other articles, from interviews with Janet Steenburg and Kim Steenburg.

"God made a mistake": Family remembers brothers lost in Schoharie limo crash

Something that does stand out is the comment:

"The limousine had crashed into the parking lot of Apple Barrel Country Store in Schoharie, killing two bystanders and 18 people inside the limo. Police found the rental receipt in Axel's name inside the limo and followed the registration plates of the cars parked at Axel and Amy's house to find Kim. She was the first family member of the 20 victims to learn about the deadliest transportation disaster in the U.S. since 2009."

But, other reports indicate the front of the limo was completely wrecked, with the engine pushed into the passenger area. Does this seem at odds to anyone else? I guess it could also be a misquote.

bbm (bolded by me)
I read the same about the front of the limo being pushed back -- it was early in one of these threads. That would certainly imply, IMO, that the limo was under a lot of speed to make this happen. I hope the investigators will be able to tell if the brakes were faulty, or if they were even applied. If they were indeed faulty, would this mean anything in assigning blame?
There are ways to detect speed -- it's complicated and time-consuming -- one type of such measurement involves skid marks, etc., but crash investigators (at least that's what they are called here in NC) can do a good job of determining speed. I als0 hope this "luxury vehicle" does have a black box, as was also mentioned earlier. Many high-end vehicles do -- largely to show that the driver was at fault and not the vehicle -- but it would certainly be useful in this horrible accident.
 

mickey2942

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I don't think that this vehicle would qualify as a "high end" luxury vehicle. It seems like it was a barely running hunk of junk, that sounded like a old jalopy, driven by a guy who had no business driving anything other than a passenger car.

The management of the company knew all of the above, they were obviously running a dubious business, rife with safety violations, that were deliberately ignored, creating a "perfect storm" of horrific circumstances that were a given to deliberately kill people with no concern. Criminal thinking in the highest order. Money was the objective, not safety.

If this car (death trap) had merely killed 5 or 6 people, we would have never heard about this crime. Maybe a blurb, but no serious investigation. Maybe this catastrophe will serve as a catalyst for further safety recommendations, and regulations in an industry that obviously needs government intervention for public safety.
 

borndem

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I don't think that this vehicle would qualify as a "high end" luxury vehicle. It seems like it was a barely running hunk of junk, that sounded like a old jalopy, driven by a guy who had no business driving anything other than a passenger car.

The management of the company knew all of the above, they were obviously running a dubious business, rife with safety violations, that were deliberately ignored, creating a "perfect storm" of horrific circumstances that were a given to deliberately kill people with no concern. Criminal thinking in the highest order. Money was the objective, not safety.

If this car (death trap) had merely killed 5 or 6 people, we would have never heard about this crime. Maybe a blurb, but no serious investigation. Maybe this catastrophe will serve as a catalyst for further safety recommendations, and regulations in an industry that obviously needs government intervention for public safety.
 

borndem

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Totally agree with all you posted. That vehicle was a rolling death trap and certainly not a high-end vehicle -- but at one time, it was -- when it was brand new and a town car, and not what we saw in the photos -- it was hacked around and made into something that was dangerous as soon as it was put on the road.

I think that the many families who were affected by this tragedy, their friends, and the public at large will not let this thing go by quietly. Attorneys and watch-dog groups are probably lining up wanting to see this thing through as well.

Certainly, many managers, city/county/state institutions -- whatever governmental bodies that have to do with this horror -- are red-faced and hiding under their desks by now, knowing they will be investigated by insurance companies, attorneys, and whatever institutions watchdog this kind of thing. Twenty people are dead due to failing equipment and an incompetent driver. Much blame to go around.
Ultimately the "limo" company and its owners and/or managers will bear the weight, but I feel that they won't be alone in the lineup. This thing will not be over anytime soon, IMO.
 

Isabelle

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Granddaughter getting married next year. Even though we live in a flat land area, we are going with a long standing tour company that offers transportation services. None of these rinky dink companies will do.
 

Tripod

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Our local weekly paper has a good ( though sad, of course) article this week, written by local Dr. Luz, about a few details just after the limo crash and what all the first responders did. I can't link anything :( It's the Times-Journal of Cobleskill and their FB page does not carry the articles. I have no idea if I am allowed to paraphrase anything from my own hard copy of the paper. I think the only way anyone else could read it would be to pay for an online subscription and highly doubt any WS'rs would want to do that. If anyone knows whether I can or can't, hit me up.
 

dixiegirl1035

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Our local weekly paper has a good ( though sad, of course) article this week, written by local Dr. Luz, about a few details just after the limo crash and what all the first responders did. I can't link anything :( It's the Times-Journal of Cobleskill and their FB page does not carry the articles. I have no idea if I am allowed to paraphrase anything from my own hard copy of the paper. I think the only way anyone else could read it would be to pay for an online subscription and highly doubt any WS'rs would want to do that. If anyone knows whether I can or can't, hit me up.


It's not behind a paywall for me. Here is the link.

Joe Luz After the crash: They helped. will you? | Times-Journal Online | The News of Schoharie County
 

Charliegizmo49

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A few more details not in other articles, from interviews with Janet Steenburg and Kim Steenburg.

"God made a mistake": Family remembers brothers lost in Schoharie limo crash

Something that does stand out is the comment:

"The limousine had crashed into the parking lot of Apple Barrel Country Store in Schoharie, killing two bystanders and 18 people inside the limo. Police found the rental receipt in Axel's name inside the limo and followed the registration plates of the cars parked at Axel and Amy's house to find Kim. She was the first family member of the 20 victims to learn about the deadliest transportation disaster in the U.S. since 2009."

But, other reports indicate the front of the limo was completely wrecked, with the engine pushed into the passenger area. Does this seem at odds to anyone else? I guess it could also be a misquote.


The angle of the passenger side as it was being pulled out after accident show that. But perhaps the drivers side was impacted. What ever it was certainly was enough to kill 18 people inside that car.
 

Tripod

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The angle of the passenger side as it was being pulled out after accident show that. But perhaps the drivers side was impacted. What ever it was certainly was enough to kill 18 people inside that car.
The front end WAS completely wrecked and pushed back. It's hard to tell much from the only video and photos out there, but I believe the entire car frame was also bent. It definitely hit at a pretty high speed. I'm confident the state police and NTSB will be able to determine the rate of travel, and the cause.
 

Charliegizmo49

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The front end WAS completely wrecked and pushed back. It's hard to tell much from the only video and photos out there, but I believe the entire car frame was also bent. It definitely hit at a pretty high speed. I'm confident the state police and NTSB will be able to determine the rate of travel, and the cause.


I just didn’t have a good angle. If in the condition reported with duct tape patches and filthy, the limo was a rolling death trap.

There will be severe consequences for even offering it as a rental. I’m tired of scam business practices such as this one. And while I can’t begin to understand the loss of 20 lives and the incredible permanent impact it will have on so many, I sure hope the laws change. There are always people who look to get $$ for something of little or no value. And in this case that had dire consequences.
 

Tripod

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I just didn’t have a good angle. If in the condition reported with duct tape patches and filthy, the limo was a rolling death trap.

There will be severe consequences for even offering it as a rental. I’m tired of scam business practices such as this one. And while I can’t begin to understand the loss of 20 lives and the incredible permanent impact it will have on so many, I sure hope the laws change. There are always people who look to get $$ for something of little or no value. And in this case that had dire consequences.
Agree wholeheartedly. I had learned more info from first responders who were on scene, as far as what things looked like.
We're just waiting for a prelim report from NTSB and of course, developments on the legal side of things.
 

LLLindsayy

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In case anyone is interested, there is another special on at 6pm today on CBS for the locals. I'm sure it'll be available online afterward.

It's supposed to be an in-depth look at the the NTSB investigation.
 
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