NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #9 *Arrest*

[Betty P]

Well personally I don’t care what a person’s/victim’s socioeconomic status is, be they a top executive at a company, or a drug addicted homeless person or prostitute living on the fringes of society, no one has the right to assassinate/execute any person in cold blood, for any reason. Period.

I agree with some other members’ thoughts that LM’s back issues may have played a role early on but imo, once he started isolating himself he became radicalized and it became more about the big corporation, greed and I’m gonna start a revolution by taking things into my own hands and (paraphrased) wack those parasites because they deserve it/have it coming to them, all for my cause and for the American people. (I reiterate that LM does not speak or act on behalf of ALL of the American people).

IMO issues with healthcare and some health insurance companies has been going on for a very long time and some great, dedicated people have been and are advocating for changes by doing it the right way- civilized, going through the proper channels etc. to try and effect change. Yes it is frustrating that change hasn’t happened as fast as we may think it should (and maybe it never will change), but regardless, the point is that this is the way to go about making changes in a civilized society.
LM (nor anyone, mentally ill or not) has the right to be Judge, Jury, Executioner assassinating people in the streets or wherever, that they don’t like or agree with for whatever reason, whether it be because they don’t like the person, a company’s policies, their profits, their top executives salaries etc, etc.

It is against the law to take the law into one’s own hands and execute someone in cold blood. It is uncivilized, vigilantism and should neither be applauded nor accepted.
Ever.

IMHOO

ETA- clarity
ETA 2- I was quoting a post from the previous thread which I noticed didn’t pull over cuz issues posting from my mobile device ugh, apologies.

Agree about the later isolation and radicalization that may have led to his extreme response. There are probably many factors that could have contributed to that, I hope they look into his online discussions and activities.

He was likely vulnerable due to his back and other health problems and loss of work, but it would be interesting to know who he was socializing with in online discussion groups. As I’ve e tio Ed before, the health care activist community in the US is a fairly tame group, not given to discussions of violence. They’re usually nerdy. I keep wondering who he might have encountered that caused him to suddenly think violence was the answer.

I hope LE is looking into it.

 

[alfredfrajesco]

Has there been any light shed on what he was up to between the shooting and his capture?

 

[alfredfrajesco]

Hawaii resident here. I would be very reluctant to have a back surgery done here. Often times, yes people do fly to America to have all types surgery done and for cancer treatment. Healthcare here is subpar, not the fault of the doctors but of the cost of living vs what they earn here so there is a severe physician shortage. One island does not have any doctors. Why? Insurance did not want to pay the doctors $40 per office visit resulting in the office going out of business. Now the insurance company has to fly each person (plus a responsible party if needed) to either Maui or Oahu for each and every doctors visit, procedure, blooddraw, etc often times having to also cover a hotel. I wish someone could make that make sense.

What island is that?

 

[Jackalina]

What island is that?

I believe Molokai. My doctor told me about this when i was in about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Betty P]

You don’t think it’s possible to both offer good healthcare coverage and give investors a solid ROI?

JMO, no. There’s no need or benefit to having a middleman. CMS (Medicare) is perfectly capable of handling the role for all Americans. They’re already the largest payer of health care services in the US. They have a very advanced system used for Medicare, Medicaid, Tri Care (US military), etc.

https://www.cms.gov/medicare/quality-initiatives-patient-assessment-instruments/qualityinitiativesgeninfo/downloads/roadmapoverview_oea_1-16.pdf

Their administrative costs are around 3 cents of every dollar spent. Their system is integrated into every health care provider in the US.

 

[Tortoise]

Quotes from the manifesto:

..."yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy"
..."It has grown and grown, but [h]as our life expectancy?"


His manifesto refers only to reduced life expectancy, as the catalyst for his deed and his "brutal honesty". Not quality of life.

This murder came from his personal rage, IMO, not rage on behalf of the American people.

I think he is too ashamed to admit it was personal, (he may have felt his life wasn't worth living anymore and I think he planned to kill himself when he wrote about his tech being locked down and possibly leaving his notes), and he has personal entitlement issues, and has tried to piggy back on a cause for the greater good, to deny his personal issues. It's why his manifesto makes no sense, IMO, in that killing the CEO will not change the system, and why he says he doesn't pretend to be best qualified to make the full argument.

This act and the manifesto wasn't brutal honesty, it was brutal personal rage. Either he feels it was weak to admit his struggles, or he felt unable to access help for them from his personal circle.

MOO

 

[Jw192]

Your post is interesting and I appreciate your honesty but I respectfully, don’t understand. Please tell me what I’m missing. LM had a medical condition that worsened due to a surfing accident. He then chose to have surgery. After that, he was in so much pain he couldn’t work so he lived and surfed in Hawaii, went to California, travelled to Japan and then shot BT in the back. How is BT, the CEO of his insurance carrier, responsible for his back pain, the outcome of his surgery or his original medical condition?
IMO, anyone who is ‘happy’ about this murder (not implying you are)- or who inserts a laughing emoji in a post about BT’s funeral - is, at best misguided, or at worst, a fruit loop.

I think you might have somewhat misunderstood parts of my brain spew. I completely understand the mass public reaction to this case. Whilst I believe that every human life is worth (some) empathy I can totally understand why not everyone is reaching for the tissues... People aren't seeing the man, the husband father brother son, they're seeing the public head of a dragon that breathes it's firey destructive breath on so many people, leaving absolute devastation in its wake. They don't see the man, they see the corporation and unfortunately he made the choice to be the public face for that greedy corporation. I'm not saying that in any way justifies his murder as imo it doesn't, I'm just saying that I understand why Joe Public isn't crying a river over a multi millionaire stranger who ultimately sanctioned millions of people's doom being killed.
As for LM himself, I'm personally confuddled to heck over him. Part of me believes that he must have some underlying issues to even be able to be pushed to this extreme, be that something undiagnosed, or chronic pain from a longstanding issue that was worsened by an accident and surgery. Another part thinks maybe that he simply just had enough of the way things are and wanted to light a fire under it in the only way he thought would and the pathway to violence was always going that way. There's so many questions as it's a very bizarre one... Did he plan to get caught? Did he want to? Was he planning on finding another? There's just so many questions which hopefully some will be answered at trial so lessons can be learnt for the future. I think it's a tad unfair that you can just presume someone's pain though. You, me or nobody here knows what pain this man did or didn't go through during all 24hrs of the day or how it impacted him and his mindset.

Ultimately though the system is diabolical. Suits with zero knowledge of medical care deciding people's fates based on cruddy checklists and downright greed, making megabucks doing so. Physicians who have spent their whole lives studying and getting into debt to help people and save lives only to be told who they can and who they cannot help, leaving their hands tied and their hearts broken. Then we have the people - you, your family, friends, neighbours, colleagues, all whose fates lie in the hands of these companies who ruin lives whilst lining their board and higher managements pockets. It's absurd and something needs to change, so yah I ultimately understand why extreme measures were taken to attempt to make a dent in the wall. Understanding and condoning are two entirely different things... I understand it, not condone it and tbh I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner.

*I'm from England btw, I don't have first hand knowledge of what it's like for you American guys but I have family and friends stateside, two of whom are medical professionals (paediatric surgeon and psychiatrist) so I do have some personal insight as to that side. All of this has made me feel so damn fortunate for our NHS which ofc has it's faults, but the fact that we don't have to worry about not being able to afford to call an ambulance for our unwell baby whilst so many across the pond do is astounding.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I thought his Reddit posts indicated that he did get the surgery? What did he get turned down for?

Follow-up surgery or treatment if his initial surgery did not turn out to be as successful as he expected?

 

[DarkwingDuck]

Per his Reddit, he did have the full open TLIF procedure as opposed to the minimally invasive procedure. I wonder if insurance wouldn't approve the latter and how significant the difference is between the two as far as outcomes/recovery? Also from his Xray, it does look like it didn't fully fix the issue IMO.

Follow-up surgery or treatment if his initial surgery did not turn out to be as successful as he expected?

 

[Friday Fan]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

CEO shooting suspect left winding trail of Reddit posts about health issues

Snippets of discussions on popular message board Reddit offer a glimpse into the life of Luigi Mangione's health battles.

www.usatoday.com

In other Reddit posts from "Mister_Cactus," he referenced health battles with Lyme disease as a teenager and "brain fog" that accompanied it. He missed soccer tryouts when he contracted Lyme at 13 and didn’t make the team, then started noticing “mild cognitive decline” when he was 15, he posted. He said his symptoms severely worsened in 2017, when he was a student at the University of Pennsylvania, but additional tests for Lyme disease were negative.

 

[GRT]

Your post is interesting and I appreciate your honesty but I respectfully, don’t understand. Please tell me what I’m missing. ...

Respectfully snipped for focus...

I think you missed the whole intent behind Jw192's post. Nowhere did that poster state it was okay to kill someone--in fact--just the opposite was said.

But, whether anyone empathizes with the killer or not--we can't escape the fact that his "message" resonated with many Americans who have either lost loved ones or watched loved ones (or themselves) suffer in pain because their insurers denied the treatments that might have given them a chance at a longer, or pain-free life.

Sympathizers are ideologically aligned with the killer's underlying message--some may even see the killing as an extension of their own frustrations, yet they can still condemn the violent act.

What happens to Luigi now is in the hands of our justice system, but there's no denying that he touched a very real nerve. We may see stricter oversight of insurance companies. I've already heard talk about penalizing companies for wrongful denials of essential care claims.

So, while Luigi will surely be punished for his violent act, that act may very well lead to positive change that saves lives. We don't like to admit things like that because they make us uncomfortable.

And yet, that's what's happening. Luigi's crime shined a spotlight on a form of injustice that many can relate to. His violent act amplified the voices of patients and their families who have suffered in silence.

Luigi's violent act has disrupted the status quo and forced many to look deeper and confront uncomfortable truths.

It behooves us to remember that sometimes--good can come from evil. That doesn't make evil good.

 

[Warwick7]

Luigi's Reddit was deleted. But he was on Reddit. I think his user name was Mountain_Cactus. His user name was Mister_Cactus. We are allowed to share his posts. Someone found them on PushPull PullPush which archives Reddit posts.

Post in thread 'NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #8 *Arrest*'

Dec 10, 2024

With the newest admin ruling, here's an archived post from LM's reddit account:



It appears surfing is what caused the major issues that led to his surgery.

Post is accessible by using pullpush (a well-known aggregator/archiver/indexer of reddit posts):

PullPush Reddit Search

• m00c0w

• 

It appears surfing is what caused the major issues that led to his surgery.

Post is accessible by using pullpush (a well-known aggregator/archiver/indexer of reddit posts):

PullPush Reddit Search

Thank you for this info!

 

[Warwick7]

Respectfully snipped for focus...

I think you missed the whole intent behind Jw192's post. Nowhere did that poster state it was okay to kill someone--in fact--just the opposite was said.

But, whether anyone empathizes with the killer or not--we can't escape the fact that his "message" resonated with many Americans who have either lost loved ones or watched loved ones (or themselves) suffer in pain because their insurers denied the treatments that might have given them a chance at a longer, or pain-free life.

Sympathizers are ideologically aligned with the killer's underlying message--some may even see the killing as an extension of their own frustrations, yet they can still condemn the violent act.

What happens to Luigi now is in the hands of our justice system, but there's no denying that he touched a very real nerve. We may see stricter oversight of insurance companies. I've already heard talk about penalizing companies for wrongful denials of essential care claims.

So, while Luigi will surely be punished for his violent act, that act may very well lead to positive change that saves lives. We don't like to admit things like that because they make us uncomfortable.

And yet, that's what's happening. Luigi's crime shined a spotlight on a form of injustice that many can relate to. His violent act amplified the voices of patients and their families who have suffered in silence.

Luigi's violent act has disrupted the status quo and forced many to look deeper and confront uncomfortable truths.

It behooves us to remember that sometimes--good can come from evil. That doesn't make evil good.

This is exactly how I have felt. However, you have said it more professional than I ever did.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Hawaii resident here. I would be very reluctant to have a back surgery done here. Often times, yes people do fly to America to have all types surgery done and for cancer treatment. Healthcare here is subpar, not the fault of the doctors but of the cost of living vs what they earn here so there is a severe physician shortage. One island does not have any doctors. Why? Insurance did not want to pay the doctors $40 per office visit resulting in the office going out of business. Now the insurance company has to fly each person (plus a responsible party if needed) to either Maui or Oahu for each and every doctors visit, procedure, blooddraw, etc often times having to also cover a hotel. I wish someone could make that make sense.

I always always say.... i learn new things everyday, here on websleuths.
These dire conditions in Hawaii are shocking to me....
Was there a turning point/specific time frame when conditions started to suck?

 

[peas n carrots]

MOO any point this young man was trying to make will not be understandable by anyone because his point is the product of a very disordered mind. MOO We are dealing with a person who is seriously mentally ill.

ETA people who are experiencing psychosis can exhibit erratic physical movements that are outside of their control. So his movements to me don't indicate he fakes having or having had a real spinal injury or condition. IME DM Headline was exactly what I would expect. Meant to grab attention and not based on fact. Headline read "Luigi Mangione's disturbing claim about cruel way his mother made him eat" where the article reads: Her recalled how his mother Kathleen Zannino Mangione made him eat steak with his right hand 'out of adherence to social norms.' which says nothing about complaining or cruelty.

Do I hope Mr. Mangione receives consequences for taking a life? Absolutely, he should be tried for murder. But IMO he is no narcissist, no hero, no villain, none of those things. He is IMO most likely severely mentally ill and not a safe person to be in society. Just as I didn't think to myself "Good serves him right" when Brian Thompson was murdered, so will I not create a super villain out of a man I think is very ill and a danger to himself and others.

More and more I’m wondering if the spinal surgery earlier this year didn’t trigger some kind of mental illness. In my understanding of the timeline, he cut himself off from family and friends shortly after that surgery.

Schizophrenia onset tends to happen to males when they are in their 20’s - the Unabomber also suffered with this condition. I’m starting to wonder what we are going to learn about LM’s mental health in the near future.

 

[sds71]

Maryland Gov. Wes Moore says he has lived with the "brokenness of the healthcare system" since his father died decades ago. Yet, he doesn't condone violence, like the Dec. 4 fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan.

"I also know the way we solve things is not by killing people in cold blood," Moore said Wednesday during a press conference on the Preakness Stakes. "The way we solve things is not killing people because we do not like the industry they are in or the company they represent."

"I'm glad the wheels of justice are now moving," Moore said. "We need to have justice for what happened to Brian Thompson. I would ask people to remember that because of the actions of this person, there are two teenagers in Minnesota who are growing up like I did, fatherless. And we can never forget that."

The suspect in the slaying, 26-year-old Luigi Mangione, comes from a wealthy Maryland family that owns country clubs and healthcare facilities in the Baltimore area.

Maryland Governor Moore condemns killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO

Maryland Governor Wes Moore condemned the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[krikken]

Quotes from the manifesto:

..."yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy"
..."It has grown and grown, but [h]as our life expectancy?"


His manifesto refers only to reduced life expectancy, as the catalyst for his deed and his "brutal honesty". Not quality of life.

This murder came from his personal rage, IMO, not rage on behalf of the American people.

I think he is too ashamed to admit it was personal, (he may have felt his life wasn't worth living anymore and I think he planned to kill himself when he wrote about his tech being locked down and possibly leaving his notes), and he has personal entitlement issues, and has tried to piggy back on a cause for the greater good, to deny his personal issues. It's why his manifesto makes no sense, IMO, in that killing the CEO will not change the system, and why he says he doesn't pretend to be best qualified to make the full argument.

This act and the manifesto wasn't brutal honesty, it was brutal personal rage. Either he feels it was weak to admit his struggles, or he felt unable to access help for them from his personal circle.

MOO

Ah, I wondered what he meant by "locked down." (BTW, the notebook is accounted for and has been read.)

 

[citygirl]

They had to shut down the school because of the way he was leaf blowing?

Not the school. The newscast.

 

[JennieM]

I wonder if this rage he has would have led him to violence and kill one way or another - for example, if he was in a relationship, and he was rejected, could he have killed his partner?

 

[soap mama]

I wonder if the activist mentality of Ivy league professors contributed to his antisocial mental state.

I'm sure the activist mentality (as a whole) of elite NE schools played into this.