Officer shows 'great restraint' NOT shooting charging homicide suspect

[MyBelle]

Even if an officer has his gun in his hand and extended toward a civilian, he should still have the drop on a civilian running "with his hand in his waistband".

Are we training LEO or not?

Are you saying this officer wasn't trained properly? Because I'm pretty sure he made the decision whether or not to shoot and it was his decision to make.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

This officer was trained well, be it by his department or by his Marine training. I may be mistaken, but I don't think Nova was implying this officer wasn't trained, but that every officer should be trained so well.

 

[katydid23]

Even if an officer has his gun in his hand and extended toward a civilian, he should still have the drop on a civilian running "with his hand in his waistband".

Are we training LEO or not?

well to be fair to the officer, does he have to cut it that close? It's a matter of a split second. Does he have to wait and see the gun pointed and shooting at him? Which gives him a whole 1/10 of a second 'drop' on the murder suspect?

 

[Tawny]

well to be fair to the officer, does he have to cut it that close? It's a matter of a split second. Does he have to wait and see the gun pointed and shooting at him? Which gives him a whole 1/10 of a second 'drop' on the murder suspect?

He should try to wait until he has eyes on a weapon, yes.

 

[MyBelle]

Please respect the Constitution.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

What you are advocating is no due process of law, and police officers are sworn to uphold the constitution, not their own safety or their family.

This case involves STATE crimes including homicide. Police Officers do have the power to make an arrest and take someone into custody.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I don't think we are going to retain many police officers if we begin expecting that they refrain from shooting at a double murder suspect, who is running at them full speed, yelling I'll Kill You, and gets within a few feet of them, lunging forward.

 

[MyBelle]

This officer was trained well, be it by his department or by his Marine training. I may be mistaken, but I don't think Nova was implying this officer wasn't trained, but that every officer should be trained so well.

He was trained as is every officer to use his own judgment. If he had shot the suspect, many would be crying foul and that it was unjustified.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

He should try to wait until he has eyes on a weapon, yes.

He was already told by dispatch that this suspect had a gun when he shot 2 people an hour earlier. Thus the chances were high that he had access to a weapon.

An officer can also die by being shot with his own weapon. if a suspect charges straight at him, full speed, yelling threats, he does not need to wait and see a weapon. He is legally allowed to shoot.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't think we are going to retain many police officers if we begin expecting that they refrain from shooting at a double murder suspect, who is running at them full speed, yelling I'll Kill You, and gets within a few feet of them, lunging forward.

I agree with you. In fact, a case in Nebraska several weeks ago was ruled a justified shooting but the cop decided to resign because it was the second justified shooting he had been involved in and he was tired of the emotional roller coaster and unfounded accusations lobbed his way.

In this case, I think it is significant that the Officer's family felt it necessary to protect the officer from such unfounded accusations that they purchased a body cam.

JMO

 

[EllieBee]

I'm not saying it. I believe that is how most LEO are trained and I assume that's how most react. I'm just saying, "Good job!"

That is what I am saying too! I will NOT criticize this awesome for cop for a job well done.

Sad that if you don't kill a suspect, you are viewed as not doing your job.

 

[EllieBee]

I am not understanding how this cop is not being given thanks for a job well done! He apprehended the suspect and did not need to fire his weapon or kill anyone to achieve that.

Shouldn't arrest without killing ALWAYS be the goal? Seriously? WTF? Why aren't we all applauding a positive outcome? Are there honestly people here who aren't happy unless we get another killer cop? Really? :banghead:

 

[EllieBee]

He was already told by dispatch that this suspect had a gun when he shot 2 people an hour earlier. Thus the chances were high that he had access to a weapon.

An officer can also die by being shot with his own weapon. if a suspect charges straight at him, full speed, yelling threats, he does not need to wait and see a weapon. He is legally allowed to shoot.

BBM.

And yet he made a choice NOT to shoot. And it turned out better. He is not in jail for murder and his suspect IS in jail. Win/win.

 

[katydid23]

I am not understanding how this cop is not being given thanks for a job well done! He apprehended the suspect and did not need to fire his weapon or kill anyone to achieve that.

Shouldn't arrest without killing ALWAYS be the goal? Seriously? WTF? Why aren't we all applauding a positive outcome? Are there honestly people here who aren't happy unless we get another killer cop? Really? :banghead:

I think you are misinterpreting what i am saying. Am I not happy unless a perp is killed? Absolutely not.

What I am saying is that it is UNFAIR to put the burden on the cop, when a murder suspect takes the cop on a high speed chase and then runs at him threatening to kill him. At THAT POINT, the safety of the perp should not be the number one priority of the officer. It should be his own safety.

Now look at that video. Do you see the point where the suspect comes within a few feet of the officer and the officer stumbles backwards? THAT is a very dangerous moment. And I do criticize the officer for allowing the murder suspect, who was threatening to kill him, to be so dangerously close to him and his weapon. When he fell backwards he was extremely vulnerable. It was just a matter of blind luck at that point that the suspect did not jump on him.

So I will applaud him for making it through safely, but I will not say it was totally a job well done because I think he put his own life in danger, and if I was his wife I would be very angry. :slap:

 

[mysteriew]

He should try to wait until he has eyes on a weapon, yes.

So if the guy has a little .22 that he can hide in his hand, the officer shouldn't shoot? Or a gun in a jacket pocket, the officer should wait until the suspect shoots it before he fires?

We are getting to the point that no officer should shoot unless they have been shot at first. And trust me if we get to that point I will feel I have to arm myself. And if you knew me, you really wouldn't want that.

 

[mysteriew]

I think you are misinterpreting what i am saying. Am I not happy unless a perp is killed? Absolutely not.

What I am saying is that it is UNFAIR to put the burden on the cop, when a murder suspect takes the cop on a high speed chase and then runs at him threatening to kill him. At THAT POINT, the safety of the perp should not be the number one priority of the officer. It should be his own safety.

Now look at that video. Do you see the point where the suspect comes within a few feet of the officer and the officer stumbles backwards? THAT is a very dangerous moment. And I do criticize the officer for allowing the murder suspect, who was threatening to kill him, to be so dangerously close to him and his weapon. When he fell backwards he was extremely vulnerable. It was just a matter of blind luck at that point that the suspect did not jump on him.

So I will applaud him for making it through safely, but I will not say it was totally a job well done because I think he put his own life in danger, and if I was his wife I would be very angry. :slap:

I agree with your whole post!

 

[katydid23]

BBM.

And yet he made a choice NOT to shoot. And it turned out better. He is not in jail for murder and his suspect IS in jail. Win/win.

He would not have been in jail for murder if he had shot the suspect. Not at all. It was a totally justified shot if he had taken it.

And by a stroke of luck it turned out better. But I do not believe that cops should have to rely upon luck to keep them alive in confrontations with dangerous murder suspects.

 

[katydid23]

That is what I am saying too! I will NOT criticize this awesome for cop for a job well done.

Sad that if you don't kill a suspect, you are viewed as not doing your job.

No one is saying that you have to kill a suspect to do your job.

What I am saying is that IF a murder suspect runs at you screaming they are going to kill you, then you have every right to shoot them in self defense if they refuse to stop.

 

[EllieBee]

I think you are misinterpreting what i am saying. Am I not happy unless a perp is killed? Absolutely not.

What I am saying is that it is UNFAIR to put the burden on the cop, when a murder suspect takes the cop on a high speed chase and then runs at him threatening to kill him. At THAT POINT, the safety of the perp should not be the number one priority of the officer. It should be his own safety.

Now look at that video. Do you see the point where the suspect comes within a few feet of the officer and the officer stumbles backwards? THAT is a very dangerous moment. And I do criticize the officer for allowing the murder suspect, who was threatening to kill him, to be so dangerously close to him and his weapon. When he fell backwards he was extremely vulnerable. It was just a matter of blind luck at that point that the suspect did not jump on him.

So I will applaud him for making it through safely, but I will not say it was totally a job well done because I think he put his own life in danger, and if I was his wife I would be very angry. :slap:

BBM
If I were his wife, I would hold him and be grateful he was alive and came home to me. And that he was not in jail, under investigation, or dead.

But that is just me.

This man is honorable and IMO, what I wish more cops were like.

 

[EllieBee]

No one is saying that you have to kill a suspect to do your job.

What I am saying is that IF a murder suspect runs at you screaming they are going to kill you, then you have every right to shoot them in self defense if they refuse to stop.

But this officer did not NEED to do that to do his job and arrest the suspect! This should be APPLAUDED! Nothing will make me say this man is not a hero. Sorry we disagree.

 

[katydid23]

BBM
If I were his wife, I would hold him and be grateful he was alive and came home to me. And that he was not in jail, under investigation, or dead.

But that is just me.

This man is honorable and IMO, what I wish more cops were like.

I would hold him, be grateful he is alive, and then be angry and ask him to NEVER allow a charging murder suspect so close to his gun ever again. But that is just me.