GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014

Regarding resignation vs firing, there can be other issues that persuade one option to be better than the other for both the board, and teacher. If you resign, generally you are no longer eligible for any benefits (health, etc), and typically can't apply for unemployment benefits.

Resignation for more "minor" workplace infractions is one technique for the worker to maintain some control over their resume, and the outcome of the discipline situation, and avoid having a termination on their record. But as BW will certainly never have another teaching job, resume issues hardly matter at all.

Workers under contract usually have to give sufficient notice, as well (even in "at will" states). Usually 30 days or more.

If a tenured contract teacher employee is in the discipline/ firing process, I don't think the board "has" to allow that teacher to resign in lieu of firing. They can decline to accept the resignation. (But I'm not completely sure about that in every area. It may depend on the contract, and the employment law in Ohio.) The worker retains benefits, and sometimes pay, during the termination process.

Could be the board will wait to hear if the district attorney plans to file any charges, before they decide what they will do. I think if the prosecutor doesn't file charges, the board will have to be the strong force, and go through the termination process. If the prosecutor does file charges, particularly if the initial charges are felony charges, they might be relieved to perform a quick exit, and offer her resignation in lieu of firing.

I think the family will file a civil complaint against her regardless of whether BW is fired, or has charges brought. If the school doesn't fire her (allows her to resign), AND there is no criminal charges, the family (IMO) will sue the district.

If she doesn't offer a resignation in lieu of firing, the Board's course is set. They might offer HER resignation in lieu of firing, but except for the money they would save, there is no "up" side for the board. But if she decides to try to fight a termination process, the saving of thousands of dollars and months of headache might persuade the board to offer her resignation in lieu of firing.

Either way, the Board has a lot to consider-- balancing how to best get rid of this employee, against the potential liability faced by the district if the parents sue the district. IMO.
 
It depends. She has been there long, I only assume she is tenured. IF she is tenured, that essentially means she has a life contract. She can only be fired, if there is a just cause to fire her. I would consider this more than a just cause. With that said, the hassle and red tape you have to go through to fire a tenured teacher is insane. That is probably the sole reason she has not been officially fired.

The teachers union has made it exceedingly impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Hence, why so many teachers are around past their due time, like this teacher probably was.

ETA: some states are doing away with their current tenure system. I don't know if that's the case with this state, and if it is gone...when that takes place.

If a teacher is convicted of child endangerment, the teacher loses her license. If a teacher loses her license, that is just cause for terminating her contract. There is nothing a Union can do to help someone in those circumstances.

JMO
 
Interesting comment on this News facebook page. You have to go down quite a ways - it's in response to a posting on May 19.

That's the first time I've seen a parent comment who actually knows the teacher and student and has a kindergartner. Full court press in BW's defense, and some interesting discipline concerns with Ian.

I think in the end, the school district and principal will be found to be remiss in either not placing this child in a special class so he could get 1 on 1 supervision, or removing him to an alternative facility - but at the very least, assign an aide to him full time to keep the other kids safe.

The post- which is signed by a real parent at the school - sheds a little light as to why there hasn't been a single parent or child in the school who took up for the Nelson family.
 
OK I must have landed in bizarro land again....

I wont say much cause I'm angry but if this was a parent doing that to thier own kid. You better believe that parent would be outta line. My mom would shoot me dead and I'm 38 if I snatched my 4 year old up like that. WTH. He is 6...6!!!!!!!!!!!! Has the world gone mad.

So it's ok if its a teacher tired of some bratty kid to put your hands on them? You are a teacher. Its expected that all the 20+ darlings are not gonna be angels and come from messed up parents. If you cant handle it tough.

So if I worked at a animal shelter and dogs are barking and one wont shut up or pees every where it is ok to snatch the dog by his collar and push up against a wall?? I wouldnt treat an animal like that and I promise if that was caught on camera people wouldnt be giving that person the benefit of the doubt. Lawd....
 
If a teacher is convicted of child endangerment, the teacher loses her license. If a teacher loses her license, that is just cause for terminating her contract. There is nothing a Union can do to help someone in those circumstances.

JMO

Not true at all. They absolutely can fight the termination in litigation. You lose your certification if you are terminated, and they can fight termination. I've seen it many times.

Even if she were terminated, there is a whole separate hearing to lose permanent certification you get being tenured. Terminating a tenured teacher is totally different than a teacher under a limited contract. It's very, very difficult...even when a crime has taken place.
 
Interesting comment on this News facebook page. You have to go down quite a ways - it's in response to a posting on May 19.

That's the first time I've seen a parent comment who actually knows the teacher and student and has a kindergartner. Full court press in BW's defense, and some interesting discipline concerns with Ian.

I think in the end, the school district and principal will be found to be remiss in either not placing this child in a special class so he could get 1 on 1 supervision, or removing him to an alternative facility - but at the very least, assign an aide to him full time to keep the other kids safe.

The post- which is signed by a real parent at the school - sheds a little light as to why there hasn't been a single parent or child in the school who took up for the Nelson family.

I am genuinely curious. In your opinion, what could the child have done to be at FAULT for a grown adult assaulting them in a hallway. Not just a grown adult, but a teacher who has a responsibility to create a safe and secure atmosphere. How do you think a child should be responsible for her CHOICE to assault him.

Seriously, I'm curious...and I don't mean that in a snarky way.
 
He is a child!!! Not a buding serial killer. I swear. He is still a kid. I'm still bigger than a 6 year old. So I guess behavioral issues equal somehow he deserved it? Short skirt=rape too I guess....I'm done. Thanks blue22
 
Not true at all. They absolutely can fight the termination in litigation. You lose your certification if you are terminated, and they can fight termination. I've seen it many times.

Even if she were terminated, there is a whole separate hearing to lose permanent certification you get being tenured. Terminating a tenured teacher is totally different than a teacher under a limited contract. It's very, very difficult...even when a crime has taken place.

It is true in Ohio.

What are unemployable offenses? What does unemployable mean?

ORC 3319.39 says that no board of education of a school district, no governing board of an educational service center, and no governing authority of a chartered nonpublic school shall employ a person as a person responsible for the care, custody or control of a child if the person has previously been convicted of or pleaded guilty to any of the offenses listed.

Crimes against family

2919.12 - Unlawful abortion
2919.22 - Endangering children
2919.24 - Contributing to unruliness or delinquency of a child
2919.25 - Domestic violence


http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Teaching/Educator-Conduct/Educator-Conduct-FAQs#FAQ1057
 
It is true in Ohio.

What are unemployable offenses? What does unemployable mean?

ORC 3319.39 says that no board of education of a school district, no governing board of an educational service center, and no governing authority of a chartered nonpublic school shall employ a person as a person responsible for the care, custody or control of a child if the person has previously been convicted of or pleaded guilty to any of the offenses listed.

Crimes against family

2919.12 - Unlawful abortion
2919.22 - Endangering children
2919.24 - Contributing to unruliness or delinquency of a child
2919.25 - Domestic violence


http://education.ohio.gov/Topics/Teaching/Educator-Conduct/Educator-Conduct-FAQs#FAQ1057

Right, but she isn't guilty of anything right now. (I mean legally, she is guilty in my eyes.) So...terminating a tenured teacher quickly without the charge, can be quite difficult. There is a due process involved. What I was saying, is I think they would have charged her by now. I don't think they will, sadly. Without the charge, she can really fight it and the union will give her everything she needs to do so. The process involves quite a bit of red tape.
 
If BW gets an attorney and fights it then there will be an issue. I am not sure what a union can do in this case?

Teachers do get attorney insurance through the union, if you pay for it, where I live.

but you only get the attorney paid for if you are found not guilty of any charges filed against uou.
 
If BW gets an attorney and fights it then there will be an issue. I am not sure what a union can do in this case?

Teachers do get attorney insurance through the union, if you pay for it, where I live.

but you only get the attorney paid for if you are found not guilty of any charges filed against uou.

She would still get hearings (they are a requirement under due process) and you don't need a lawyer for that. I would think it's beneficial, but it's not required. I have had a really hard time finding anything solid about tenured teachers in Ohio. I only assume she was tenured, since they didn't simply terminate her. It is not hard to terminate a teacher under contract, but not tenure. I don't know if she is tenured, but it would be quite strange for such a longtime teacher not to be.

ETA: IF she chose not to have hearings, than it could go pretty quickly. I guess I feel like a lady who assaults a kid and threatens to rip him apart...doesn't seem like someone who is going to just slink away. I'd love to be wrong. Heck, I'd love if she is charged with a crime and gets kicked to the freaking curb.
 
Right, but she isn't guilty of anything right now. (I mean legally, she is guilty in my eyes.) So...terminating a tenured teacher quickly without the charge, can be quite difficult. There is a due process involved. What I was saying, is I think they would have charged her by now. I don't think they will, sadly. Without the charge, she can really fight it and the union will give her everything she needs to do so. The process involves quite a bit of red tape.

She's been suspended without pay. If she is charged and convicted of a felony, she will lose her pension. I think they will offer her a deal: Agree to plea guilty to a lessor charge and resign.

JMO
 
Interesting comment on this News facebook page. You have to go down quite a ways - it's in response to a posting on May 19.

That's the first time I've seen a parent comment who actually knows the teacher and student and has a kindergartner. Full court press in BW's defense, and some interesting discipline concerns with Ian.

I think in the end, the school district and principal will be found to be remiss in either not placing this child in a special class so he could get 1 on 1 supervision, or removing him to an alternative facility - but at the very least, assign an aide to him full time to keep the other kids safe.

The post- which is signed by a real parent at the school - sheds a little light as to why there hasn't been a single parent or child in the school who took up for the Nelson family.

Your link is missing. Could you add it please?

Also, (and this is to EVERYBODY) please be careful about blaming the victim.

Salem
 
She's been suspended without pay. If she is charged and convicted of a felony, she will lose her pension. I think they will offer her a deal: Agree to plea guilty to a lessor charge and resign.

JMO

If she is vested in her pension, they can't take away what she has earned.

I would be surprised if they charge her with a crime. It seems ridiculous they haven't by now. They have video tape, it's not just he said, she said. I wonder what's up with the delay in this?! But I agree, a resignation is the more likely scenario.
 
If she is vested in her pension, they can't take away what she has earned.

I would be surprised if they charge her with a crime. It seems ridiculous they haven't by now. They have video tape, it's not just he said, she said. I wonder what's up with the delay in this?! But I agree, a resignation is the more likely scenario.

Ohio does have a forfeiture statute for public employees. I believe the delay is because they are negotiating a plea agreement.

Ohio 2929.192 Pensions of public officials and employees can be revoked for conviction of specific list of felonies during time of public service.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/other/state-pension-forfeiture-laws.html
 
Ohio does have a forfeiture statute for public employees. I believe the delay is because they are negotiating a plea agreement.

Ohio 2929.192 Pensions of public officials and employees can be revoked for conviction of specific list of felonies during time of public service.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/other/state-pension-forfeiture-laws.html

Yeah, I never expected them to charge her with a felony though. I actually think it's a shame if they plead her down so she can keep her pension and stuff. Oh well.
 
Your link is missing. Could you add it please?

Also, (and this is to EVERYBODY) please be careful about blaming the victim.

Salem

Yes. I'm sorry, I had intended to post it before.

You have to scroll a long way down, to a May 19 posting of an article, and then click on the "recent" replies instead of "most popular".

https://www.facebook.com/wtol11

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste the actual posting by a reader - but her first name is Brooklyn and she generated some discussion.
 
I am genuinely curious. In your opinion, what could the child have done to be at FAULT for a grown adult assaulting them in a hallway. Not just a grown adult, but a teacher who has a responsibility to create a safe and secure atmosphere. How do you think a child should be responsible for her CHOICE to assault him.

Seriously, I'm curious...and I don't mean that in a snarky way.

Hm. I wouldn't say he's at fault for causing her to react like that, because that reaction was inappropriate and as a result, IMHO, she should resign from teaching.

When I read that post on facebook I have no reason to doubt it's true - and if it is true, I believe the school was remiss in placing him in a mainstream classroom without additional support. His behavior appears to have made him a danger to others and himself.

So when I picture the moments leading up to the incident - BW discussing details of the upcoming IEP, she may have had those incidents very fresh on her mind and may have been a stressed about how she was going to document them, and stressed about how the parents would react, as they had a very sour relationship apparently brewing all year. Then, at that moment, she sees him coming out of a restroom in another part of the school far from where he should be.

Although apparently incidents of his behaviors were documented and publicly known, in my opinion the school didn't react appropriately to stop it.

BW's reaction wasn't appropriate either - and I don't mean to say that's the kind of reaction that a kinder teacher should be encouraged to have when they are as completely frustrated as she may have been.
 
Man it just floors me the vile excuses and justifications for clear-cut abuse we make just because the victim is a child. There is something seriously wrong with that mentality.

Not directed at anyone in particular. I've just been reading around on this. Jesus, people. Keep ur f-in hands off kids. It's really that simple. And each time someone abuses a child like this and keeps their job, it makes it easier for someone else to justify it.

Do I think she is a monster? Evil? Well I don't know her, so I don't know. But probably not. Is she more stressed out than some of us? Maybe, maybe not. Has she done it before and not gotten caught? Don't know. None of that matters. What matters is she violently put her hands on a child and IMO she should lose her license.
 
Yes. I'm sorry, I had intended to post it before.

You have to scroll a long way down, to a May 19 posting of an article, and then click on the "recent" replies instead of "most popular".

https://www.facebook.com/wtol11

I don't think I'm allowed to copy and paste the actual posting by a reader - but her first name is Brooklyn and she generated some discussion.

That was a very interesting read.

More than one Riverdale parent weighed in with comments and examples.

All I'll say is that I'm more persuaded that this was a situation where a previously good employee "snapped", as opposed to a long term concealed pattern of abuse and bullying.

Snapped or not, BW was clearly in the wrong for what she did, and will continue to face consequences. She should be, and will be (IMO) fired, but I think there is a possibility she will be allowed to resign. The whole picture of the situation is becoming clearer to me.

I guess I'm beginning to change my mind about the implications for a civil suit against the school district, regardless of what happens to BW. I think a civil suit is inevitable, at this point. I thought it might be avoidable, but I'm beginning to doubt that. JMO.
 

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