OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 Apr 2006 #5

[justinkjones1993]

I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread yet, but I think it's notable that Brian is listed in the FBI's VICAP section, which is the violent criminal apprehension program.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything at face value, but I've always wondered if the FBI has some evidence or speculates that Brian indeed was a violent crime victim.

BRIAN RANDALL SHAFFER - COLUMBUS, OHIO — FBI

 

[george14]

I don't know if this has been brought up in this thread yet, but I think it's notable that Brian is listed in the FBI's VICAP section, which is the violent criminal apprehension program.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything at face value, but I've always wondered if the FBI has some evidence or speculates that Brian indeed was a violent crime victim.

BRIAN RANDALL SHAFFER - COLUMBUS, OHIO — FBI

The authorities always know more than the public, especially with a case like this. It’s simply based on access to information and tips. No matter how much an investigator purports to know, the cops/FBI have some information the others don’t. And there is no incentive to release it if it could compromise an investigation. Other than obliging to the publics curiosity.

 

[Ozoner]

The authorities always know more than the public, especially with a case like this. It’s simply based on access to information and tips. No matter how much an investigator purports to know, the cops/FBI have some information the others don’t. And there is no incentive to release it if it could compromise an investigation. Other than obliging to the publics curiosity.

Sometimes nobody—LE included—knows anything that can actually be used to solve the case.

 

[george14]

Sometimes nobody—LE included—knows anything that can actually be used to solve the case.

I agree. I assume they have leads on who is responsible for Brian’s disappearance. I personally believe he is dead.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree. I assume they have leads on who is responsible for Brian’s disappearance. I personally believe he is dead.

They might have leads, but all of their leads might be dead ends—especially if he's entombed in the construction area.

 

[justinkjones1993]

Speaking as someone who worked in construction for over 12 years, and poured concrete hundreds of times, it's extremely difficult for me to believe that he's "entombed" in the construction area.

When you pour concrete, you don't just start dumping material into a hole. There are specific dimensions and measurements that you must meet, and the pour has to be perfectly level or else you have problems. I guarantee you somebody was down in that hole the day they got ready to pour concrete in checking for debris and making sure the measurements were correct. If we saw as much as a 4 inch block of wood in the hole we would get it out or risk screwing the job up entirely. I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to think that they would have overlooked a 6'2" body lying in there and dumped concrete over it anyway. I've worked in many construction crews and I've never seen anyone that careless.

My opinion is that he indeed made it out of the bar. The cameras probably just missed him, and I think we have put far too much stock in the camera situation to begin with. It's almost a red herring in my opinion.

 

[MerryB]

Speaking as someone who worked in construction for over 12 years, and poured concrete hundreds of times, it's extremely difficult for me to believe that he's "entombed" in the construction area.

When you pour concrete, you don't just start dumping material into a hole. There are specific dimensions and measurements that you must meet, and the pour has to be perfectly level or else you have problems. I guarantee you somebody was down in that hole the day they got ready to pour concrete in checking for debris and making sure the measurements were correct. If we saw as much as a 4 inch block of wood in the hole we would get it out or risk screwing the job up entirely. I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to think that they would have overlooked a 6'2" body lying in there and dumped concrete over it anyway. I've worked in many construction crews and I've never seen anyone that careless.

My opinion is that he indeed made it out of the bar. The cameras probably just missed him, and I think we have put far too much stock in the camera situation to begin with. It's almost a red herring in my opinion.

100% agree. In addition, there was no construction done over the weekend. Brian disappeared Saturday morning, investigators were there on Monday.
IMO the fact that Brian is not seen leaving the bar is a red herring that has distracted us from other details that could have helped solve this case. MOO

 

[justinkjones1993]

100% agree. In addition, there was no construction done over the weekend. Brian disappeared Saturday morning, investigators were there on Monday.
IMO the fact that Brian is not seen leaving the bar is a red herring that has distracted us from other details that could have helped solve this case. MOO

The cell phone activity is much more important than the cameras, IMO. I'm convinced somebody nearby had his phone for some time after the disappearance. I do not believe the ringing was a "glitch".

Figuring out who exactly had his phone, how they got it, and what they did with it is the key to solving this thing, I believe.

 

[juan1]

I believe that the Sept ringing may have been a glitch, but the initial pings were not. Unfortunately it seems highly unlikely that we will ever find his phone; and even if we did and were able to access it, there's a good chance that nothing notable is on the device. That said, knowing his possible location following UTS is still very helpful information.

I see Occam's razor quoted here a lot. I agree that the simplest explanation is usually correct, and was convinced for years that he was still in that building. But now, I would argue that Occam's razor points to him getting out unseen.

 

[george14]

Believing Brian is buried under concrete is about as believable that he is currently chillin in Mexico.

Not that either of those are impossible, but I doubt they are the truth. I read quite a bit about construction protocol and how getting buried under concrete is very unlikely due to the specificities of pouring concrete.

People need to stop being married to their ego and open their minds to the fact that Brian could have very well made it out of the bar. I used to think he was buried but I no longer do. I think maybe he was killed in the bar and put in a dumpster. Or possibly died somehow after leaving the bar.

 

[XPh]

What I am sure of, based on the facts of this case, is that he made it out of the bar that night

I think you need to be really careful with making a statement like this, because it’s potentially misleading and borderline inaccurate.

To my knowledge, there is no conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar.

Conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar would include:
-Him on video leaving the bar
-Him on video anywhere outside of the bar after 2am on 4/1/06
-Some sort of verified eyewitness sighting

None of these things exist, so I think you should be careful saying you’re “sure,” “based on the facts of the case.”

 

[XPh]

Believing Brian is buried under concrete is about as believable that he is currently chillin in Mexico.

Not that either of those are impossible, but I doubt they are the truth. I read quite a bit about construction protocol and how getting buried under concrete is very unlikely due to the specificities of pouring concrete.

People need to stop being married to their ego and open their minds to the fact that Brian could have very well made it out of the bar. I used to think he was buried but I no longer do. I think maybe he was killed in the bar and put in a dumpster. Or possibly died somehow after leaving the bar.

Theories involving Brian being stuck or “entombed” in the bar do not necessarily have to end in him buried in concrete. As you suggested to others, perhaps you should open your mind to other ways one can get stuck in a rather large building.

We have seen stories about people getting stuck in between walls, behind coolers at a grocery store, and in duct work. They’ve been posted here. Some weren’t found for years until something triggered the discovery. It happens.

I tend to agree with you that being covered in concrete is unlikely, but open your mind to other possibilities. MOO.

 

[MerryB]

I think you need to be really careful with making a statement like this, because it’s potentially misleading and borderline inaccurate.

To my knowledge, there is no conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar.

Conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar would include:
-Him on video leaving the bar
-Him on video anywhere outside of the bar after 2am on 4/1/06
-Some sort of verified eyewitness sighting

None of these things exist, so I think you should be careful saying you’re “sure,” “based on the facts of the case.”

My unsnipped comment ends with MOO (my opinion only). I feel that the phone data as well as the scent detection by the dogs are facts that indicate Brian made it out of the bar. Investigators agree based on that, as well as their thorough inspection of the building. Obviously if there was conclusive evidence such as those you listed, his exit would not even be in question. I think posters here are intelligent enough to understand that. MOO

 

[itsrak]

I think you need to be really careful with making a statement like this, because it’s potentially misleading and borderline inaccurate.

To my knowledge, there is no conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar.

Conclusive evidence that Brian left the bar would include:
-Him on video leaving the bar
-Him on video anywhere outside of the bar after 2am on 4/1/06
-Some sort of verified eyewitness sighting

None of these things exist, so I think you should be careful saying you’re “sure,” “based on the facts of the case.”

Other:
- Him having used his cell phone after 2:30am.
- Him having used a credit card outside the complex.
- Him having touched bank account.
- Him having accessed web - such as myspace account - after 2:30am
- Him having spoken with someone who knew him after 2:30am
- Him having hosted small afterparty said to have been planned for that morning.
- There being any sign of life whatsoever after 2:30am.
- Body/remains being found outside the complex.
- Wallet or phone being found outside the complex.

I think Brian was likely incapacitated/dead by around 2:10am. I think Randy Shaffer's instincts - search the 'completely dug up' construction area even though LE already had - were right. His choice of tools - dogs rather than shovels - may have been wrong. Input of construction crew is big unturned stone in this case. Why, here's an actual member of the crew right here, in the actual construction area, just days after Brian permanently disappeared - what did he have to say then, what would he have to say today? Are Brian's remains nearby? 10 feet? 50 feet? 200 feet?

 

[Old Mozez]

My unsnipped comment ends with MOO (my opinion only). I feel that the phone data as well as the scent detection by the dogs are facts that indicate Brian made it out of the bar. Investigators agree based on that, as well as their thorough inspection of the building. Obviously if there was conclusive evidence such as those you listed, his exit would not even be in question. I think posters here are intelligent enough to understand that. MOO

OMG (Oh My God) That detection is hardly a "fact" for LE . The dog had a reaction outside while the rain was pouring down, ie he could have just sneezed. Hardly conclusive evidence that places Brian outside the Gateway building. Not even CPD believes that.

 

[King91]

Are there more pictures of the construction site at the time? Also, this abandoned factory that the dogs led investigators to...are there pictures of that? What is it now?

 

[itsrak]

Are there more pictures of the construction site at the time? Also, this abandoned factory that the dogs led investigators to...are there pictures of that? What is it now?

The dogs led the cops to a burger joint. Dogs LOVE hamburger.

 

[King91]

The dogs led the cops to a burger joint. Dogs LOVE hamburger.

Haha. I knew about the Wendy’s but I saw older post by Looking4Brian that his scent was tracked to a Wendy’s and then an abandoned factory.

I listened to one of the Podcasts and they mentioned that when Brian and Clint went to UTS for the first time that night, they walked there after meeting at Brian’s apartment. Interesting to know which route they took and if it’s at all possible that this scent they picked up on was actually from earlier in the evening.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yikes. Probably should have stopped there.

Whatever the truth may be.. for Derek, Brian’s nephews and Brian’s remaining family/friends’ sakes if anyone doesn’t want him to be alive on a human level what are we doing here?

Thanks for the updates Kelly @Looking4Brian . Your hard work will pay off!

Nicely stated!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Unfair comment IMO, I've seen posts where @Ozoner has contemplated scenarios like Brian ending up in bodies of water and/or ending up in waste containers, amongst else. The construction area scenario is by far the most likely scenario as there is no evidence suggesting Brian got out of the building. At least none that I've found at least. I'm still all ears of course.

However, neither is there any evidence that Brian was in the construction area, correct?