Identified! OH - Dobbstown, 'Belle in the Well' WhtFem UP6259, 30-60, in cistern, Apr'81 - Louise Petersen

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Mrs. Badcrumble said:
Bumping the thread with a little mention from Margaret Press of the DDP when about the status quo:
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I wonder what's "tough" about her. Very few matches in the database? Too many matches as with Lyle Stevik?

Maybe her family were recent immigrants to the US so there are few relatives within the general population.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
I wonder what's "tough" about her. Very few matches in the database? Too many matches as with Lyle Stevik?

Maybe her family were recent immigrants to the US so there are few relatives within the general population.
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From what I understand, based on earlier posts and comments on DDP's Fb page, she has many, many matches.
 
taramarie said:
I inquired into Belle's status last week and received this reply:

"We are working away as usual, and yes, things have definitely been hectic! Thank you for asking. :)

We are having to double back a bit to recheck some of the branches we researched -- Belle's tree in particular is a slow process, because so many of the families seem to have a lot of the same names. It gets confusing! ;) So sometimes we have to pause and do some checks and balances and administrative house cleaning on the trees (so to speak) to keep things as organized as possible. Some of our trees for the cases get huge ...

Last week we were all a bit distracted with the DNA Day activities and news events But doing our best to get the show back on the road this week. :) Lots of late nights for sure. :)"



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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Bumping this post to explain why this case is tough. Margaret replied to a comment of mine a few minutes ago and says “Belle will be solved”, so they must be making some progress!
 
Mrs. Badcrumble said:
From what I understand, based on earlier posts and comments on DDP's Fb page, she has many, many matches.
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In that case things are looking positive. I don't think I've seen any explanation of when DDP/LE start talking to the wider family. In cases like this one family members may be able to short-circuit much of the analysis work by identifying a cousin or similar who hasn't been heard from in 30 years or whatever.
 
AmonAmarther said:
Why is it tough when there are many matches? You'd think it's easier that way (I have no idea about genealogy construction)
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I've done a little work on my family tree and run into what I think is the problem they're talking about: one branch of the family had a fondness for using the same names over and over in various combinations. And it's a fairly common name. I pretty much have to try to figure out the birth and death dates of every reference to figure out whether I have the right person's marriage certificate or whatever.

And at one point two sisters married two brothers. To make matters more complicated, the brothers are apparently the nephews of the grandmother's third husband. And each brother named their first son for the other brother. So the younger James William Carbuff is the son of the older Peter James Carbuff, and the younger Peter James Carbuff is the son of the older James William Carbuff. The grandfather is Peter William Carbuff.

Confused yet? I kind of gave up.

No, no kind of. I gave up.
 
carbuff said:
I've done a little work on my family tree and run into what I think is the problem they're talking about: one branch of the family had a fondness for using the same names over and over in various combinations. And it's a fairly common name. I pretty much have to try to figure out the birth and death dates of every reference to figure out whether I have the right person's marriage certificate or whatever.

And at one point two sisters married two brothers. To make matters more complicated, the brothers are apparently the nephews of the grandmother's third husband. And each brother named their first son for the other brother. So the younger James William Carbuff is the son of the older Peter James Carbuff, and the younger Peter James Carbuff is the son of the older James William Carbuff. The grandfather is Peter William Carbuff.

Confused yet? I kind of gave up.

No, no kind of. I gave up.
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Lord! I fell off by the second sentence :eek: In my family, there was the case of exact opposite of your family, carbuff; they all had different names! My grandmother was number 13 of 14 siblings (!), 10 grew up, all had the same two parents, and according to tradition, your surname became the same name taken from where you were born. So, there you go; 14 kids born with completely different names because they were born in different places.
 
carbuff said:
I've done a little work on my family tree and run into what I think is the problem they're talking about: one branch of the family had a fondness for using the same names over and over in various combinations. And it's a fairly common name. I pretty much have to try to figure out the birth and death dates of every reference to figure out whether I have the right person's marriage certificate or whatever.

And at one point two sisters married two brothers. To make matters more complicated, the brothers are apparently the nephews of the grandmother's third husband. And each brother named their first son for the other brother. So the younger James William Carbuff is the son of the older Peter James Carbuff, and the younger Peter James Carbuff is the son of the older James William Carbuff. The grandfather is Peter William Carbuff.

Confused yet? I kind of gave up.

No, no kind of. I gave up.
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Wow, I totally understand now. Thank you for the explanation!!
 
Based on their comments, it sounds like Belle's tree suffers from endogamy--people marrying and procreating within a small community. So there may be issues of both similar/the same names recurring as well as the same, ahem, people recurring (consanguinity, aka inbreeding). They actually also mentioned this in relation to Lyle.

With Belle and MCSM we are dealing with degraded DNA in both, but Belle's case definitely has a lot of endogamy. And in addition to Belle, several of our new cases (St. Tammany, Butler County, and Find John Clinton Doe) look like they might have extensive endogamy. Yay!
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These particular families in this area – we are learning – often married among themselves, as close-knit communities often do. This is known as “endogamy” – many intermarriages between close or distant cousins occur frequently enough that individuals end up sharing a lot of DNA with each other. IF this is what we are seeing with Lyle’s matches, this means that although someone may appear to be a first cousin based on how much DNA they have in common, they may actually be a second cousin who shares great-grandparents on both sides of the family. It can be tricky to pull apart these family lines and relationships (as anyone who has worked with endogamous family groups knows). So although Lyle has many good matches, teasing apart these lines will take time.
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The interesting part about this, is that if this were such a small community, you'd think they'd be more likely to notice someone missing, or at least remember someone who had left. If they can narrow it down to a rough family/area, and it is genuinely that restrictive, I'd think that someone will be able to come up with someone fitting that description, even if it's difficult to pinpoint an individual purely through genetics.
 
Description

Belle in the Well aka Chesapeake Jane Doe is the name given to a Jane Doe who was found in a rural well in Windsor Township, Lawrence Co., OH, in April 1981. She was weighted down by a rope around her neck that was tied to a cinder block. She had been strangled.

Based on the absence of her 12-year-old molars and some evidence of gum recession, Belle’s age was estimated at between 30-60 years old. She had a noticeable overbite. She was 5’4″ and weighed about 140 pounds.

The woman was found wearing a pair of grey flannel pants, and a lightweight shirt under a gray pullover. She also wore a red cable-knit cardigan sweater, with rubber bands around her wrists. The only items found on her body were the key to a locker at a Greyhound terminal in Huntington, WV, a bus ticket, a pay stub, and a Jerry Falwall commemorative coin.

Authorities say that these leads have not been useful in identifying the woman. Because of the advanced state of decomposition, her facial features were not recognizable, and no fingerprints were available. As of February 2018, a total of 241 women have been ruled out.

Agency of Jurisdiction
Lawrence County Coroner’s Office
Kurt Hoffman
740-533-0202

Links to More Information
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Belle in the Well
1027UFOH
Facial Reconstruction Created for Lawrence County's "Belle in the Well"

Belle-new-reconstruct.png
 
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