GUILTY OH - Paris Talley, 3 wks, dies of thermal injuries, Dayton, 30 Aug 2005

[strach304]

When he says I don't think that...the babysitter was there, it's a pause and then the she went to bed meaning China. I see where he goes from making the first statement that pertains to the sitter and then says she instead of China to make it clear he's not still talking about the sitter. I'm thinking that she did leave and that's why she was cleared and that leads to the huge issue of whether the mother checked on the baby and if the baby was ok they can eliminate her as a suspect.

 

[Reannan]

I have reviewed the transcript, and here is my take on the whole baby-sitter issue: Nancy asked "When she got home that night, was the baby asleep?" and the laywer's response was: "...I don`t think that -- the baby-sitter was still there. I think she went up to bed. And I think when she came down the next morning is when all of this was sort of discovered." I think he intended to say that China can't say for sure if the baby was asleep because she had been out drinking, and since the baby sitter was still there, China just went up to bed and essentially passed out. Nancy goes onto say that the coroner had to "call in experts from around the country". Well, guess what? There are no experts when it comes to infant death by microwave. I think it is interesting that the reporter "Kirsch" says they have "new evidence and new information", but she says if it is unclear it if is from "China or Terrell or somebody else". I guarantee you it isn't from China. The kids probably haven't provided anything new, so that just leaves Terrell or somebody else! If it is from Terrell, I will be highly suspicious. What "somebody else" would have provided new information and/or evidence? His sister? Nahhhhh...I ain't buying this one.

 

[Reannan]

WARNING: Graphic information - don't read if this type of information is too much for you. In the NG transcript, Horowitz says "Didn`t I hear a statement by the mother where she said it looked like the baby was cooked? That`s not how the baby looked, according to what I understand. Microwaving may leave some burns, but it was hard to determine cause of death." Ok.....for me, this means the baby did NOT have visible external burns. The only other known case of infant microwaving left blisters on the baby. Here is a link to a story that has the most complete information on the other case that I have been able to find thus far: http://tinyurl.com/ybk5u5
For those who don't have time to follow the link and read it all, here is the pertinent information about the conditon of the other infant boy who was proven to have been killed by his mother in a microwave:
"He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh romper suit and was stiff and covered in blisters. Experts determined he probably died after about 10 minutes in the microwave, by which time his blood temperature would have risen to 106oF." If I were the lawyer, I would be investigating a medical condition called malignant hyperthermia. Most individuals have problems when given anastheisa, but some can develop problems from infections. This is a genetic condition that is frequently fatal, and is usually caused when anasthesia is given. Malignant hyperthermia can result in "high body temperature (over 110°F)". I would like to know what in the autopsy points to microwave instead of malignant hyperthermia. This information is taken from this link: http://tinyurl.com/yx2vcq.

 

[crypto6]

WARNING: Graphic information - don't read if this type of information is too much for you. In the NG transcript, Horowitz says "Didn`t I hear a statement by the mother where she said it looked like the baby was cooked? That`s not how the baby looked, according to what I understand. Microwaving may leave some burns, but it was hard to determine cause of death." Ok.....for me, this means the baby did NOT have visible external burns. The only other known case of infant microwaving left blisters on the baby. Here is a link to a story that has the most complete information on the other case that I have been able to find thus far: http://tinyurl.com/ybk5u5
For those who don't have time to follow the link and read it all, here is the pertinent information about the conditon of the other infant boy who was proven to have been killed by his mother in a microwave:
"He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh romper suit and was stiff and covered in blisters. Experts determined he probably died after about 10 minutes in the microwave, by which time his blood temperature would have risen to 106oF." If I were the lawyer, I would be investigating a medical condition called malignant hyperthermia. Most individuals have problems when given anastheisa, but some can develop problems from infections. This is a genetic condition that is frequently fatal, and is usually caused when anasthesia is given. Malignant hyperthermia can result in "high body temperature (over 110°F)". I would like to know what in the autopsy points to microwave instead of malignant hyperthermia. This information is taken from this link: http://tinyurl.com/yx2vcq.

I was thinking along your lines of a medical event; there are several conditions, and MH is one, where core temperature can rise dramatically. If the baby died by microwave, the burns that EMS saw would remain. I wonder exactly what EMS saw that made them think of burns….

Crypto6

 

[Reannan]

I don't know Crypto6...the lack of information in this case is driving me crazy; and making me suspicious!

 

[SewingDeb]

Thank you How about the time Robbi Ludwig (sp) suggested Laci committed suicide? This is the same thing imo.

Wasn't that Whiney Janey (Weintraub) who suggested it? Or did Robbi suggest it as well?

 

[harleysnana]

Fran,

I'm with you on all counts........could go any way! I can't imagine the bf being let off so easy. So what if he is working with LE he knows thats his only chance of an escape. He could of told LE what a dirty lousy Mom China was....made her out to be the biggest piece of crap that ever was born.......& he knows he can get off the hook.

If he fed the baby last....noticed something was wrong with her. He looks guilty as sin to me.

I would bet that they have some info that lead them to the mom
being the one.
From the first link on this page it says:

"According to police, detectives received some information last month that the child, Paris Talley, may have been fatally burned from an appliance in August of 2005.

The Montgomery County Coroner’s Office said they suspect that the child was killed after she was allegedly put in a microwave by her mother. Director Ken Betz said the conclusion is supported by evidence collected by police

Link

 

[T-Rex]

"In January 2000, Arnold, then 20, was placed on five years' probation for abducting a 72-year-old woman in the parking lot of a shopping mall and ordering her to drive her downtown. According to a Miami Twp. police report, Arnold told the woman she had a gun, which was actually a bottle of lotion in a glove, Arnold told police."While still on probation, Arnold was convicted in 2002 of forgery."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/11/30/ddn113006baby.html

 

[mysteriew]

While I think the possibility of someone wanting to cause the other pain is the strongest possibility, I wondered about something else.

How drunk or high were they? How big was the micro?
I am not being facetious but have you ever gone to the refrigerator to get something out, and put the butter you were holding in your hand inside instead?
What if someone got up in the night to feed the baby, sleepy and still drunk or high, they were holding the baby and went to put the bottle in the micro? And they were very drunk or very high?

If it was a negligent accident being covered up, that could explain the sincere appearance of the mother. She could be truly grieving, just not truthful.

 

[blue06]

I don`t think she did this ...
Her reactions to the babys death is not what you would expect, she seemed very genuine.
She has 3 other children and there was no signs of abuse with the other 3 ... This is too much off a stepping stone for someone that has not abused before.
The family seem to be supportive, and the mother wanted the little baby.
I think they should look into the baby sitter or the father a bit more.
If the Mum went to bed, I know when my babies were that young I could sleep through a train wreck, she woke at 6 am to find the baby unconsious, it doesn`t sound right, I think this needs to be investigated more.

 

[southcitymom]

"In January 2000, Arnold, then 20, was placed on five years' probation for abducting a 72-year-old woman in the parking lot of a shopping mall and ordering her to drive her downtown. According to a Miami Twp. police report, Arnold told the woman she had a gun, which was actually a bottle of lotion in a glove, Arnold told police."While still on probation, Arnold was convicted in 2002 of forgery."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/11/30/ddn113006baby.html

This article supports my contention that China had faced poverty issues. It also has lots of information from a friend saying that China was a good, loving mother who never could have done what she is accused of doing and that China has been working hard to better her and her children's lives.

From this same article:

Accused mom showed baby love, friend says

Neighbor at Parkside Homes says no indication that China Arnold would harm her children.


By Cathy Mong

Staff Writer


Thursday, November 30, 2006


DAYTON — Rhonda Lucas's Parkside Homes apartment faces the slope leading up to Interstate 75, so when it's hot and there's nowhere else to go, she and her friends would cool off with a cold beer in the back yard commons.

Among those who laughed and talked about their lives was China Arnold, the 26-year-old mother accused of microwaving her 3½-week-old daughter, Paris Talley.

Lucas said in the two years since moving to the housing complex off Keowee Street, she has seen nothing but a loving mother motivated to better her life for herself and four children, three of whom are sons — ages 9, 7 and 4.
That's why Lucas said the aggravated-murder charge filed against Arnold is so difficult to accept.

"When she found out she was pregnant, she was so excited. When she knew it was a girl, she went out shopping for baby clothes," Lucas said.

Arnold would lean back on the couch with Paris resting on her chest, Lucas said. "I'd say, 'China, lay that child down,' and she'd say, 'no, she's my little girl.' "

"I just don't believe China could do it."

Arnold's defense attorney, Jon Paul Rion, said his client, who he said was attending Sinclair Community College on her way to becoming a counselor, will be vindicated.

"You have someone living on assisted income, working and going to college, with goals for herself and having a goal to help others in life. That's someone who is picking herself up by her bootstraps and it shows how she was raised and who she was."

 

[southcitymom]

WARNING: Graphic information - don't read if this type of information is too much for you. In the NG transcript, Horowitz says "Didn`t I hear a statement by the mother where she said it looked like the baby was cooked? That`s not how the baby looked, according to what I understand. Microwaving may leave some burns, but it was hard to determine cause of death." Ok.....for me, this means the baby did NOT have visible external burns. The only other known case of infant microwaving left blisters on the baby. Here is a link to a story that has the most complete information on the other case that I have been able to find thus far: http://tinyurl.com/ybk5u5
For those who don't have time to follow the link and read it all, here is the pertinent information about the conditon of the other infant boy who was proven to have been killed by his mother in a microwave:
"He was wearing a Winnie the Pooh romper suit and was stiff and covered in blisters. Experts determined he probably died after about 10 minutes in the microwave, by which time his blood temperature would have risen to 106oF." If I were the lawyer, I would be investigating a medical condition called malignant hyperthermia. Most individuals have problems when given anastheisa, but some can develop problems from infections. This is a genetic condition that is frequently fatal, and is usually caused when anasthesia is given. Malignant hyperthermia can result in "high body temperature (over 110°F)". I would like to know what in the autopsy points to microwave instead of malignant hyperthermia. This information is taken from this link: http://tinyurl.com/yx2vcq.

Thanks for this information. They are releasing little to no information regarding why they contend a microwave was involved. I don't think they are very sure of that "fact" at all.

 

[southcitymom]

While I think the possibility of someone wanting to cause the other pain is the strongest possibility, I wondered about something else.

How drunk or high were they? How big was the micro?
I am not being facetious but have you ever gone to the refrigerator to get something out, and put the butter you were holding in your hand inside instead?
What if someone got up in the night to feed the baby, sleepy and still drunk or high, they were holding the baby and went to put the bottle in the micro? And they were very drunk or very high?

If it was a negligent accident being covered up, that could explain the sincere appearance of the mother. She could be truly grieving, just not truthful.

I've actually considered this scenario myself. Once when I was pregnant, tired and spacey, I fed my dog's phenobarbitol pill to my 18 month old (they were sitting on the floor next to each other).

In theory, if you were in a blackout from chemicals, you could make the mistake of putting the baby instead of the bottle in the microwave.

I just don't know - I would like to know if the mother and/or father had been using that night - past the point of a few drinks.

 

[mindi77]

I live in Dayton and Parkside, where she lives is one of the most horrible housing projects around. The violence and drugs in that place is all to horrible. The sad thing is, is that there is a police station right across from it. When I was a little girl probably before I was 6 and I am 29 now my aunt would suppose to be watching me for my mom while she worked and she was all to worried about partying so she would drop me and her 4 kids off at her friends to watch us and she lived in parkside. I remember I would cry because the bugs were so bad that the whole time I would be there I would just stand in one spot and cry till I got to go home. I finally told my mom and she got me a new sitter. but I remember being a kid and always hearing the adults talk about stuff going on there. I remember hearing them talk about someone cutting off a little boys pee pee, now I don't know if that was true but I rememeber hearing it. I hate to say it but if I have to drive past that place I always lock my doors. That in itself doesn't mean she did it but I have to wonder.

 

[Gmommy]

Man you people can write when a person is away from the computer

I am still in the camp that I find it hard to believe that this mother did this. Tearful television coverage of the mother aside the evidence that is available just doesn't seem strong enough to me. I know if I were seated on that jury I would definitely have reasonable doubt.

All I know is that it would have to be somebody close to the baby to do this-can't imagine a stranger being involved. I don't think this three week old would have cried in any way that would have seemed out of the ordinary since most babies that age tend to cry a lot and at that age you're still sort of figuring out what all your babies cries mean. I guess with the parents both having several drinks that night they may not have noticed the baby skipping a middle of the night feeding or two.

I was thinking maybe they arrested the mother only in order to place the father and babysitter under surveillance. Passing a lie detector hasn't seemed like enough evidence to me for the police to write you off as a suspect so maybe they are still watching the father and the sister/babysitter hoping that now that they have arrested mom these two will let their guards down.

southerncitymom-when you accidentally gave your dog's meds to your child what did you do? I once accidentally gave my cat my meds and I took his-we were both on the same med (amatryptaline) but his dosage was 5-10mg and mine was 100mg, it was an antidepressant that can also be prescribed for sleep disturbances which is why I used it. My vet just suggested I try getting my cat to eat grass in the back yard and that did the trick for him thankfully. I did not have to eat grass

 

[southcitymom]

.......southerncitymom-when you accidentally gave your dog's meds to your child what did you do? I once accidentally gave my cat my meds and I took his-we were both on the same med (amatryptaline) but his dosage was 5-10mg and mine was 100mg, it was an antidepressant that can also be prescribed for sleep disturbances which is why I used it. My vet just suggested I try getting my cat to eat grass in the back yard and that did the trick for him thankfully. I did not have to eat grass

Hi Gmommy,

It's nice to know that someone else made a similar mistake! I felt like a complete nincompoop. I called my pediatrician right away and she said "You did WHAT?" and told me to take my child to the ER, which I did. The ER people said "You did WHAT?" and ran all these tests on my son. The tests traumatized him more than the phenobarbitol! He was a little drowsy, but fine.

 

[tezi]

Something ain't adding up here. The mom has no history of abuse toward the other kids, and the dad has a questionable past and his sister was the babysitter? Plus, they had a fight. I think LE needs to look some more here.

 

[Gidgette]

The babysitter is the bf's sister. I believe the mom's attorney said she had gone to bed before the couple returned to the home that evening.

The bf has taken a polygraph and police said he passed.

The mom has taken a polygraph and her attorney said she passed.

NG is giving the attorney trouble because the mom took her polygraph from an outside ceritified polygrapher and not directly from the police. I believe the attorney said the mom would be willing to take another one.

NG seems to have already made up her mind that it's the mom. I'm not so sure.

JMHO
fran

Standard Nancy Grace. As much as it hurts to hear these kinds of things that people can do to their children and I want to know more about the cases....Nancy turns me off every time. She is way too biased against these people and convicts each and every one in the media before the facts are known.

 

[southcitymom]

Standard Nancy Grace. As much as it hurts to hear these kinds of things that people can do to their children and I want to know more about the cases....Nancy turns me off every time. She is way too biased against these people and convicts each and every one in the media before the facts are known.

I'm with you on that, Gidgette. I don't watch her.

 

[Gidgette]

I have finally been able to read this thread....I agree with the poster who said - Wow you guys are quick. I can barely catch up after I post. LOL

Thank you southcitymom....Nope, I'm not ready to pin this on mommy yet either. I didn't see her on NG so I can't say how I felt about her reactions and/or distress. If daddy was the one to find this sweet wee-one and it only takes seconds - which I would believe - to cause the death of this baby, who's to say he didn't do it when he first got up and then called the mommy? Many a time a guilty has passed a polygraph so I am not convinced on that statistic at all. There's a reason they aren't used in a court of law.

Now my feeling of what to do with whomever did this - Yes, I'd push the button too. What a sick mind. There are no words to even say - at least none that wouldn't get me banned. What in the he!! is this world coming too? All of these prescious lives that are so innocent, haven't had the time on this earth to cause anyone any harm are being murdered (I finally said it). I can't fathom it......I just can't. There are so many people who would give everything they owned to be blessed with a child and this happens to one that they would have wrapped their world of love around. I'm beyond speechless.

I really hope that it is proven that the mommy wasn't involved.....another black mark for Nancy. IMO