VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

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Betty P

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But how many of those thousands who may have bought those same shoes from Walmart, were then later investigated/charged with murdering 8 people?

Amd I can't come up with a way that anybody, shoe expert or not, that could say what shoe somebody was wearing at a specific date and time unless they themselves saw them wearing those specific shoes. So, IMO, who wore the shoes in this case is not the most important issue thate the State is trying to put forth, but rather more important IMO is that the State wants to show that the shoes were purchased by AW prior to the murders as part of the planning (and of course that AW and JW say they were worn by JW and GW the night of the murders (and no, I don't believe everything those 2 say, but that's up to the jurors, not me). JMO

It's just circumstantial evidence that, when combined with other evidence, shows that the defendants committed the murders they're accused of. In this case, the other evidence is an admission of guilt by not one, but two of the parties involved.

Defendant 1 buys shoes for sons, in their sizes, at local Walmart per receipt and surveillance video

A short time later, brand new shoes in those same sizes leave prints in blood at 2 of 4 murder scenes. Those murder scenes also contain ballistic evidence showing guns and ammo owned by the defendants were used to kill several people in those 2 crime scenes

The victims killed at those two crime scenes were targets for the 2 killers because of personal disagreements those killers had with the victims

Later, Defendant 1 who bought the shoes for her sons, admitted that she bought them for the murderers and they wore them that night. One of the murderers confessed and confirmed that he and one of the other murderers wore those shoes that night, then later burned them.

That's enough evidence for a jury to fairly and honestly convict someone of being at the scenes of those murders. This is a conspiracy case and the jury is bring asked to convict George of being involved in the conspiracy and of being at the scene of the crimes.
 

Niner

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Okay - found it! :)


Per @rsd1200 post #131:



from Canepa opening - link:


Do we know what their actual shoe sizes are? I think it was Angenette Levy on the alibis podcast who kept honing in on the fact that “we still don’t know George’s shoe size”

You must have missed my post on the previous page - it is quoted right above yours now. George's size is 11.
edited to add - Jake size is 10.5
 

pamelado2

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Jmo Angela stating that George told her that was his print is one of the biggest reason I believe she is lying. That is information she volunteered to Capena. She went above and beyond to try to put George there. What mother does that? Even for her plea deal that information wasn’t needed, but yet she added that extra detail to try to get a good deal. To mean that statement tells that she is all about self and will lie as much as it takes for herself. Jmo
I disagree, we have no idea what they told her. If she knew going in that they still refused to take the death penalty off the table after Jake testified, her biggest fear could have been saying enough to save him. She already knew that everyone knew George was there.

So many have said that Angela and Jake were/are just in it for themselves, but I still don't see it like that. I think that no matter how much bickering and in fighting there was they still felt it was the Wagner 4 against the world. They were very much a unit. You can tell just by the fact that they lived together, even when the boys got married, even when they should have been on their own, even when their SO told them they wanted to get their own place. They scouted out Alaska, they moved there, they moved (or tried to) to Missouri, they moved back to Ohio. All their money was intermingled. They went shopping together, hunting, fishing, built things, took care of the animals and house and kids. Jake and George could have drove truck separately - they chose to work together. They could have moved out together or separately - they chose to stay, well into their 20's. I haven't heard word one about any attempt for those 2 to actually move out (saving for security deposit, apartment hunting, looking for mobile homes, etc)
 

RAISINISBACK

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Hackamore and bareback. I trained on English but never showed. I liked to ride the fields and herd. I put a bridle on for the kids, and they ride theirs bareback, if they want a saddle, they can ask for help. They were all into saddles til I started making them help drag them out and pull the cinches. Bareback it is. :)
O/T

Yeah Dad had us on those horses and bulls from the time we could walk. My youngest sister now owns dad's ranch. Her grandson just went pro this year in bull riding.
 

Cool Cats

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I didn’t miss it! Those are the shoe sizes Jake said were bought for them at Walmart. What my question is, simply- what is George’s shoe size?

Whoever posted this will you clarify again?

I remember reading a post yesterday somewhere on here where a poster said that Angela was asked to buy both Jake and George shoe sizes that were one size smaller than they normally wear.

Angela testified that she bought shoes that were of a SIZE and style that George and Jake do NOT wear.

So if it is true that Angela bought each of them shoes that were a size smaller than normal, that means that the size 11 shoes that George wore that night were actually one size smaller than he normally wears which would mean that his real shoe size is size 12.

And Jake wore the 10.5 that night so that means Jake's real shoe size is 11.5.

If this poster is correct, it does seem very realistic for men who are 6 feet tall to have shoe sizes that are 12 and 11.5.

I have a son tall like Billy, well over 6 feet tall, and he wears a size 15.

Until we find who posted this or the court testimony about this, etc...It will have to be considered just opinion. But I am sure I read someone posting that the shoes were bought one size smaller than normal and I remember Angela told Canepa she bought shoes in a SIZE they did NOT wear.
 
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Cool Cats

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Are there not going to be closing statements first? That will bring both sides fresh into the juror's minds before they start deliberating.

Yes they will be doing their closing arguments this coming week. Then Deering has a long list of jury instructions to give the jury, Motions have been filed about this.
 

Puzzles8

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Do you have any theories on why she bought 2 pairs of shoes if 3 men were going?

Just wonderin'

JMO
Yes, because CRsr would have immediately known something was off if Billy walked in with brand new velcro closing tennis shoes. That night, Billy had to have worn footware that he normally would have worn.
No doubt those boots were later destroyed. EW made it very clear in her testimony, she was strongly persuaded to believe the Wagner men only wore boots....

If there were only two single footprints found at all four bloody crime scenes there had to have been some attempt to clean them up. Maybe that was one of George's jobs in the crimes to be in charge of cleaning up or marring footprints. Maybe that is why he later felt guilty and confessed to Angie that he might have missed cleaning one up.

JMO
 

Puzzles8

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I was looking through BW court filings and saw the below that I cut/paste. BW has 4 attorneys? Has this been discussed before on this forum?

The Defendant was present in court and was represented his attorneys, Mark C. Collins and Thomas F. Hayes, each of whom has been appointed by the Court to represent the Defendant. Also, present were Attorneys Kaitlyn C. Stephens and Emily Enstett, each of whom are part of the defense team, but neither of whom are attorneys appointed by the Court to represent the Defendant in the present action.
I think KS and EE might be only Associate Attorneys at Collins and Hayes law firm.

JMO
 
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Cool Cats

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Yes, because CRsr would have immediately known something was off if Billy walked in with brand new velcro closing tennis shoes. That night, Billy had to have worn footware that he normally would have worn.
No doubt those boots were later destroyed. EW made it very clear in her testimony, she was strongly persuaded to believe the Wagner men only wore boots....

If there were only two single footprints found at all four bloody crime scenes there had to have been some attempt to clean them up. Maybe that was one of George's jobs in the crimes to be in charge of cleaning up or marring footprints. Maybe that is why he later felt guilty and confessed to Angie that he might have missed cleaning one up.

JMO

George wanted to smear the print but Billy told him to just leave it, evidently in a hurry. That was really stupid as Billy has found out.
 

TopHat123

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Remind me about the reconfigured truck plz? I thought the phony bottom would work until someone said that much hay is just too heavy. I guess I wasn’t taking into account that they would’ve used bales of hay. I just thought they threw some loose hay on top (yeah, I’m a city slicker), but if that were the case then it would probably get blown away once the truck hit 45 mph or so.
I did wonder how George IV would get underneath that as he was around 300lbs at the time iirc.
Those jurors probably aren’t city slickers though & that could help the defense.

Also Jake said he covered Chris Sr & his cousin with a blanket, but I think he said he didn’t cover Dana. Yet Dana’s brother said that when he found her body, her head was literally stuck to the pillowcase that was on top of her head. Troublesome detail, but not necessarily a deal breaker for on-the-fence jurors.

I think George IV was there, knew about it, helped with the plan & cover up, but unless the prosecution has a vigorous closing argument (& imo the prosecution has not been very vigorous), I think George IV will beat the most critical charges & be convicted on some of the lesser ones. If, that is, the jurors don’t allow themselves to get bogged down on a distinct issue (like the shoe discussion, for example) & can’t agree & there’s a hung jury. I just don’t see George as being the lily white totally 100% innocent nice guy that his lawyers are making him out to be. Idk
 

Puzzles8

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I don't think after GWIV froze, when he was suppose to do his I'm the best hunter here thing and his little brother stepped in to get the "show" started, that he was anything but in a support role. After that JW and BW took over the assassins role and GWIV was their support person. Move the bodies, stand guard at CRJR's door, drive the truck, stand watch again on KR's road. Then the cover-up phase...dig this, mix this, build this, put this in your truck, float this in the pond. Those are my conclusions. GWIV couldn't killed a human being personally but he sure could help with the planning, aiding the trigger men and in covering up the whole venture afterwards. He's as guilty as if he did pull the trigger.

His demeanor and testimony on the stand did nothing to change my mind about what JW and AW testified to about GWIV being a part of all three phases of this family's massacre and in fact verified they were telling the truth about GWIV's participation. AJMO
George's demeanor on the stand also spoke volumes to me. He didn't come off as an innocent man pleading for his life.
Instead George came off as very rehearsed, cold and arrogant.

There was an obvious angry look in his eyes, not consistent with the look of an innocent man.
JMO
 

TopHat123

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Also- Angela is the textbook image of the Mother-In-Law From H***
Way too involved in every detail of her adult sons’ lives
Didn’t she say she wanted her sons’ kids to call her Mom? Even though they already had mothers?
Those baby mamas never stood a chance against Angela
 

Cool Cats

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George's demeanor on the stand also spoke volumes to me. He didn't come off as an innocent man pleading for his life.
Instead George came off as very rehearsed, cold and arrogant.

There was an obvious angry look in his eyes, not consistent with the look of an innocent man.
JMO

Imagine how angry he is at his mom and brother testifying against him. Without their testimony he had a much better chance of getting acquittals. Their testimony could possibly be what adds enough evidence for him to be convicted. Hard not to get convicted when co-conspirators turn State's evidence against you.

If he is ever free again I bet he will have zero to do with them. Angie said she had no way to make phone calls so I suspect family isn't rushing to add money to her commissary account.

Opinion.
 

justtrish

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George's demeanor on the stand also spoke volumes to me. He didn't come off as an innocent man pleading for his life.
Instead George came off as very rehearsed, cold and arrogant.

There was an obvious angry look in his eyes, not consistent with the look of an innocent man.
JMO
It was just plain disturbing to me. The very rehearsed direct and then the way he twisted things on cross. He's a con man who says he likes to bet on everything even the weather. Everyone must be mistaken or lying, but him of course. We are to believe the angry man on those recordings was just a caffeinated, sleep deprived paranoid man who thought BCI was framing his family. Now he's just so innocent and didn't know a single thing until his brother confessed. That is scary, but that is how people like him operate. Excuses for everything, explaining away everything that makes him look guilty. Always having a reason and trying to convince others what they feel is just not so and let me tell you why. Tabby had it all wrong, must be mistaken, and Beth, and his niece... his 4 year old niece is a [email protected]@ but again he was just sleep deprived and paranoid.
 

Puzzles8

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It was just plain disturbing to me. The very rehearsed direct and then the way he twisted things on cross. He's a con man who says he likes to bet on everything even the weather. Everyone must be mistaken or lying, but him of course. We are to believe the angry man on those recordings was just a caffeinated, sleep deprived paranoid man who thought BCI was framing his family. Now he's just so innocent and didn't know a single thing until his brother confessed. That is scary, but that is how people like him operate. Excuses for everything, explaining away everything that makes him look guilty. Always having a reason and trying to convince others what they feel is just not so and let me tell you why. Tabby had it all wrong, must be mistaken, and Beth, and his niece... his 4 year old niece is a [email protected]@ but again he was just sleep deprived and paranoid.
Exactly, he insisted everyone in his life was either wrong or lying. Everyone.

What are the odds.......

JMO
 

RAISINISBACK

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Remind me about the reconfigured truck plz? I thought the phony bottom would work until someone said that much hay is just too heavy. I guess I wasn’t taking into account that they would’ve used bales of hay. I just thought they threw some loose hay on top (yeah, I’m a city slicker), but if that were the case then it would probably get blown away once the truck hit 45 mph or so.
I did wonder how George IV would get underneath that as he was around 300lbs at the time iirc.
Those jurors probably aren’t city slickers though & that could help the defense.

Also Jake said he covered Chris Sr & his cousin with a blanket, but I think he said he didn’t cover Dana. Yet Dana’s brother said that when he found her body, her head was literally stuck to the pillowcase that was on top of her head. Troublesome detail, but not necessarily a deal breaker for on-the-fence jurors.

I think George IV was there, knew about it, helped with the plan & cover up, but unless the prosecution has a vigorous closing argument (& imo the prosecution has not been very vigorous), I think George IV will beat the most critical charges & be convicted on some of the lesser ones. If, that is, the jurors don’t allow themselves to get bogged down on a distinct issue (like the shoe discussion, for example) & can’t agree & there’s a hung jury. I just don’t see George as being the lily white totally 100% innocent nice guy that his lawyers are making him out to be. Idk
Jake said he had an OSB board that had 2 2x4 studs nailed lengthwise to each side it. He then sat it on top of the four eyelets in each corner of the truck. Nothing was said about securing the 2x4 studs to the eyelets so we can only assume they were literally just sat down on top of them. Then he stacked 12 bales of hay on top of the board. A bale of straw weighs at minimum Parker said of 40 to 50 lbs each. Parker figured it at 480 lbs. But depending on what kind of hay e.g. alfalfa weighs much more at 140 lbs per bale, there could have been up to 1200 lbs on that OSB board. OSB is not solid board. It is used for decking on roofs. It is much weaker in it's equivalent size and thickness than plywood. My opinion is once even 480 (the smallest calculated weight that was put on that OSB), the OSB would have bowed in a downward V shape in the middle making it impossible for 300 lbs George to crawl under. Then take that bowed board with that weight on top and travel down a road with a lot of bumps and potholes, which one poster who lives in the area said is the condition of the road they traveled and the board would have broken in the middle and crushed whoever was under it. The whole thing was a lie from start to finish. Maybe something Jake saw on Walking Dead or one of those other effed up shows he watched.


JMO
 
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