VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[RAISINISBACK]

Of course any bloody print would be out of place. I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

Say what? You go to someone's home for a drug deal, to kill two grown men who are awake and moving around, to shoot them with a Glock .40 cal with Hornaday hollow point ammo or a SKS 762 ammo and you do not think there will be any blood?

That is an impossible scenario. Of course there is going to be blood. A lot of blood. Just like we saw in the pictures. Jake and Billy were hunters. They knew that.

The reason for the new shoes: if they had worn old shoes and BCI searched Peterson rd the next day it is possible they could have gotten shoe print molds from Peterson rd that matched the shoe prints at the scene. Jake should have been the first one looked at and he knew he would be. If they were never worn shoes there was no way to get a shoe print mold at Peterson rd. Also dirt tracked into the crime scenes from Peterson rd location, mixture of farm animals ect could have been traced right back to jake and would have been much more solid evidence than they had.

Rule number one: The killer always leaves something at the scene or takes something away.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

Say what? You go to someone's home for a drug deal, to kill two grown men who are awake and moving around, to shoot them with a Glock .40 cal with Hornaday hollow point ammo or a SKS 762 ammo and you do not think there will be any blood?

That is an impossible scenario. Of course there is going to be blood. A lot of blood. Just like we saw in the pictures. Jake and Billy were hunters. They knew that.

The reason for the new shoes: if they had worn old shoes and BCI searched Peterson rd the next day it is possible they could have gotten shoe print molds from Peterson rd that matched the shoe prints at the scene. Jake should have been the first one looked at and he knew he would be. If they were never worn shoes there was no way to get a shoe print mold at Peterson rd. Also dirt tracked into the crime scenes from Peterson rd location, mixture of farm animals ect could have been traced right back to jake and would have been much more solid evidence than they had.

Rule number one: The killer always leaves something at the scene or takes something away.

JMO

Quote:
"Rule number one: The killer always leaves something at the scene or takes something away."

Well, the "3" Wagners did both.

 

[justtrish]

I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

Say what? You go to someone's home for a drug deal, to kill two grown men who are awake and moving around, to shoot them with a Glock .40 cal with Hornaday hollow point ammo or a SKS 762 ammo and you do not think there will be any blood?

That is an impossible scenario. Of course there is going to be blood. A lot of blood. Just like we saw in the pictures. Jake and Billy were hunters. They knew that.

The reason for the new shoes: if they had worn old shoes and BCI searched Peterson rd the next day it is possible they could have gotten shoe print molds from Peterson rd that matched the shoe prints at the scene. Jake should have been the first one looked at and he knew he would be. If they were never worn shoes there was no way to get a shoe print mold at Peterson rd. Also dirt tracked into the crime scenes from Peterson rd location, mixture of farm animals ect could have been traced right back to jake and would have been much more solid evidence than they had.

Rule number one: The killer always leaves something at the scene or takes something away.

JMO

I didn't say they didn't think there would be ANY blood. I said I don't think they planned to step in blood and leave prints.

 

[pamelado2]

I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

Say what? You go to someone's home for a drug deal, to kill two grown men who are awake and moving around, to shoot them with a Glock .40 cal with Hornaday hollow point ammo or a SKS 762 ammo and you do not think there will be any blood?

That is an impossible scenario. Of course there is going to be blood. A lot of blood. Just like we saw in the pictures. Jake and Billy were hunters. They knew that.

The reason for the new shoes: if they had worn old shoes and BCI searched Peterson rd the next day it is possible they could have gotten shoe print molds from Peterson rd that matched the shoe prints at the scene. Jake should have been the first one looked at and he knew he would be. If they were never worn shoes there was no way to get a shoe print mold at Peterson rd. Also dirt tracked into the crime scenes from Peterson rd location, mixture of farm animals ect could have been traced right back to jake and would have been much more solid evidence than they had.

Rule number one: The killer always leaves something at the scene or takes something away.

JMO

But remember, they were supposed to smear the footprints and George told Angela (regarding the CR print in blood) that was mine I didn't smear it.
How else could they drag those bodies and walk out and only leave one print?
As for the prints at Dana's - I don't think I ever realized they could find prints on linoleum like that.

 

[Skully67]

I didn't say they didn't think there would be ANY blood. I said I don't think they planned to step in blood and leave prints.

Maybe there were more then 2 shoes bought. At a different Walmart. Maybe they changed shoes in the truck between scenes. There is so much we don't know.

 

[justtrish]

Good point. I very much don't doubt that G3 was there. One thing that I don't think that JW made up, was G3's reaction after the murders at CR1's. I said that man was NOT the mastermind. He is a criminal and was a decently successful one, but he had a partner in crime, who kept pushing him along (AW). I think the business stuff got mixed with personal, afa CR!, and he carried a grudge against CR1 and AW was the impetus, for both of them to act. The pastor spoke about G3's reaction toward his little dog dying, could've been over more than his dog he was crying over. He may actually have remorse. Idk. I don't read it in JW's testimony, nor AW's.

I think there were many possible smaller motives in this case. This was unfortunately a perfect storm created by AW and BW in raising their kids like they did and getting away with so much before these murders. They knew how to get away with crimes and go undetected.

 

[Skully67]

I was looking through BW court filings and saw the below that I cut/paste. BW has 4 attorneys? Has this been discussed before on this forum?

The Defendant was present in court and was represented his attorneys, Mark C. Collins and Thomas F. Hayes, each of whom has been appointed by the Court to represent the Defendant. Also, present were Attorneys Kaitlyn C. Stephens and Emily Enstett, each of whom are part of the defense team, but neither of whom are attorneys appointed by the Court to represent the Defendant in the present action.

 

[sunshineray]

Yet somehow eight humans were murdered in just hours, and then just hop in the victim's truck, CR1's, in case DR or one of the other two, sees it and pulls up, so they'll think it's CR1. Doesn't seem the murderers felt too icky.

I don't think after GWIV froze, when he was suppose to do his I'm the best hunter here thing and his little brother stepped in to get the "show" started, that he was anything but in a support role. After that JW and BW took over the assassins role and GWIV was their support person. Move the bodies, stand guard at CRJR's door, drive the truck, stand watch again on KR's road. Then the cover-up phase...dig this, mix this, build this, put this in your truck, float this in the pond. Those are my conclusions. GWIV couldn't killed a human being personally but he sure could help with the planning, aiding the trigger men and in covering up the whole venture afterwards. He's as guilty as if he did pull the trigger.

His demeanor and testimony on the stand did nothing to change my mind about what JW and AW testified to about GWIV being a part of all three phases of this family's massacre and in fact verified they were telling the truth about GWIV's participation. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Come on!!! you never rode bareback? lol

Never. Was shown how to ride without using stirrups though.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think after GWIV froze, when he was suppose to do his I'm the best hunter here thing and his little brother stepped in to get the "show" started, that he was anything but in a support role. After that JW and BW took over the assassins role and GWIV was their support person. Move the bodies, stand guard at CRJR's door, drive the truck, stand watch again on KR's road. Then the cover-up phase...dig this, mix this, build this, put this in your truck, float this in the pond. Those are my conclusions. GWIV couldn't killed a human being personally but he sure could help with the planning, aiding the trigger men and in covering up the whole venture afterwards. He's as guilty as if he did pull the trigger.

His demeanor and testimony on the stand did nothing to change my mind about what JW and AW testified to about GWIV being a part of all three phases of this family's massacre and in fact verified they were telling the truth about GWIV's participation. AJMO

I can see it, but I'm still on the fence if the prosecution nailed it, only based on what I've seen and heard.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't think the prosecution nailed at all. Canepa got too flustered when questioning George. She lost her case right there I think. But you never know about juries and which way they will go. I don't like them having a whole week off to think about it. I am hoping they go with their gut feeling.

JMO

 

[Niner]

Some of you are saying they never said the size of shoes. Then how come I had a note in my stuff that JW wore the 10.5 size & GW4 wore 11? I must have got from a tweet. I believe it was like 1 week or so ago when I put that note in there. But I took it out the other day when I redid my notes.

Let's see if I can find it... that is going to be tough - alot of posts! LOL! But I shall try!

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think the prosecution nailed at all. Canepa got too flustered when questioning George. She lost her case right there I think. But you never know about juries and which way they will go. I don't like them having a whole week off to think about it. I am hoping they go with their gut feeling.

JMO

Are there not going to be closing statements first? That will bring both sides fresh into the juror's minds before they start deliberating.

 

[Niner]

Okay - found it!

OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

I highly doubt they would have ever been offered an Alford plea, once JW caved and agreed to testify the state probably thought they would find it easier to convict the other 3, then AW caved so they have no use of BW or GW pleading to anything, as they have nothing to offer they can plead...

www.websleuths.com

Per @rsd1200 post #131:

Jake indicated that he wore the size 10 and a half that night and that george wore the size 11 that night
um and you will see that that size 11 that i told you that was in scene 3 at dana's place is almost exactly where he
says that george was stationed to make sure that little chris didn't come out of his room

from Canepa opening - link:

 

[rsd1200]

Nm. dbm.

 

[Betty P]

Okay - found it!

OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

I highly doubt they would have ever been offered an Alford plea, once JW caved and agreed to testify the state probably thought they would find it easier to convict the other 3, then AW caved so they have no use of BW or GW pleading to anything, as they have nothing to offer they can plead...

www.websleuths.com

Per @rsd1200 post #131:



from Canepa opening - link:

Thanks for searching this out. There are so many facts revealed during this trial that some folks forget or claim don't exist. It helps to review the pertinent evidence again to remind ourselves there is a great deal of evidence against GW4 and that claims he wasn't involved in the murders is mistaken.

JMO, it's impossible to ignore the evidence against him.

 

[Myland]

But remember, they were supposed to smear the footprints and George told Angela (regarding the CR print in blood) that was mine I didn't smear it.
How else could they drag those bodies and walk out and only leave one print?
As for the prints at Dana's - I don't think I ever realized they could find prints on linoleum like that.

Jmo Angela stating that George told her that was his print is one of the biggest reason I believe she is lying. That is information she volunteered to Capena. She went above and beyond to try to put George there. What mother does that? Even for her plea deal that information wasn’t needed, but yet she added that extra detail to try to get a good deal. To mean that statement tells that she is all about self and will lie as much as it takes for herself. Jmo

 

[Dudly]

Do you have any theories on why she bought 2 pairs of shoes if 3 men were going?

Just wonderin'

JMO

My thought was there was no stock in GWIII’s size.
My opinion only…

 

[justtrish]

Jmo Angela stating that George told her that was his print is one of the biggest reason I believe she is lying. That is information she volunteered to Capena. She went above and beyond to try to put George there. What mother does that? Even for her plea deal that information wasn’t needed, but yet she added that extra detail to try to get a good deal. To mean that statement tells that she is all about self and will lie as much as it takes for herself. Jmo

I think George was close with his mom. We can hear it in the recorded calls between them. He was telling her all about how BCI was in Alaska and all that he did. She was telling him all about the house she found. Tabby testified to her having to leave the room at night so they could talk about their day. I think this comment he made about shoe print could be as simple as seeing it on the news and saying we left those prints, I tried to mess them up, but dad was rushing me out of there or even something like I knew we needed to check to make sure we got all those prints. I think if he did express any concern about things it was to her. He was not going to talk to his dad about it or Jake. She bought those shoes for them so it's something that connects them to the crime scene. I'd think it made her and George paranoid.

 

[Betty P]

But how many of those thousands who may have bought those same shoes from Walmart, were then later investigated/charged with murdering 8 people?

Amd I can't come up with a way that anybody, shoe expert or not, that could say what shoe somebody was wearing at a specific date and time unless they themselves saw them wearing those specific shoes. So, IMO, who wore the shoes in this case is not the most important issue thate the State is trying to put forth, but rather more important IMO is that the State wants to show that the shoes were purchased by AW prior to the murders as part of the planning (and of course that AW and JW say they were worn by JW and GW the night of the murders (and no, I don't believe everything those 2 say, but that's up to the jurors, not me). JMO

It's just circumstantial evidence that, when combined with other evidence, shows that the defendants committed the murders they're accused of. In this case, the other evidence is an admission of guilt by not one, but two of the parties involved.

Defendant 1 buys shoes for sons, in their sizes, at local Walmart per receipt and surveillance video

A short time later, brand new shoes in those same sizes leave prints in blood at 2 of 4 murder scenes. Those murder scenes also contain ballistic evidence showing guns and ammo owned by the defendants were used to kill several people in those 2 crime scenes

The victims killed at those two crime scenes were targets for the 2 killers because of personal disagreements those killers had with the victims

Later, Defendant 1 who bought the shoes for her sons, admitted that she bought them for the murderers and they wore them that night. One of the murderers confessed and confirmed that he and one of the other murderers wore those shoes that night, then later burned them.

That's enough evidence for a jury to fairly and honestly convict someone of being at the scenes of those murders. This is a conspiracy case and the jury is bring asked to convict George of being involved in the conspiracy and of being at the scene of the crimes.