OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[Cool Cats]

Interesting little word correction,
"We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source..."
I still think along with the tapes they have a witness to the conversation(s). These tapes were from when the W's returned to Ohio from Alaska correct?

BBM

I noticed that word correction right away and that is what got me thinking she was referring to wiretaps. To me "resource" sounds like something technical rather than a person. I thought she did not want to give that away and quickly changed it to the more neutral "source".

As far as a witness, what if the "resource" really was a person, a person wired up to record them.

I really can't see them taking a chance in talking in front of anyone but Fred, which they did. However, to muddy the H20s further Canepa did make it sound like possibly more people were over at Freds than just the Wagner 4:

Canepa said at Fred's bond hearing:

"We have information from a confidential reliable resource--ahh--source that there was a collection of individuals out at Miss Wagner's home on one occasion, on at least one occasion I should say..."

 

[Cool Cats]

Snipped by me
"The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

If this turns out to be an accurate description of their mindset, it woukd just amaze me they weren't apprehended sooner. What kind of morons would think slaughtering 8 people in one night and 4 different locations wouldn't bring massive state and federal investigations down on the area? I really want these trials to start and the cases against them all to be aired. Can't happen soon enough.

I believe (opinion) this was their mindset because:

#1.) Jake said they moved to AK to get away from the innuendos that they were guilty. Then he seemed surprised that quote: "it followed us here."
They simply thought that moving away was enough to "make it all go away."

#2.) They were surprised and angered that LE wasn't taking Billy's tips. Their lawyer did an interview ripping apart LE for how they were treating the Wagners and not getting back to Billy about his tips. This indicates to me that they thought they could control the investigation, that their tips would put LE on the trail of others leaving the Wagner 4 to get on with their life.

#3.) Angie gets desperate. What else would you call it when she goes on Rhoden group Facebook discussions and defends herself against people accusing her?
I think she was shocked at the SM attention and desperate to have posters stop accusing her and her family. Total strangers trashing her and she thinks she can control it.

#4.) Wanting to hurt or kill the Attorney General soon to become Governor, the Sheriff, Special agent Scheiderer and others who go against them. No one talks like this if they expect LE to come down hard on them. If they thought LE would go all out on investigating them, then they would feel LE was just doing their job.
Even the Mafia leave LE alone because they know they are just doing their job.

But the Wagners were extremely angry that BCI, DeWine and other agencies were heavily investigating them without letting up. How dare they do this! They should
not be allowed to do this! They were suppose to take the Wagner's DNA, laptops, phones, do interviews and take their tips and then go away, not hound them forever.

No statute of limitations for the 4 Wagners

 

[Betty P]

Snipped by me
"The Wagner's were shocked at the mammoth investigation with BCI and the Atttorney General getting involved, all the 100's of social media groups, blogs, threads, and all the publicity. They probably figured it would be a local case bungled by "keystone cops."

If this turns out to be an accurate description of their mindset, it woukd just amaze me they weren't apprehended sooner. What kind of morons would think slaughtering 8 people in one night and 4 different locations wouldn't bring massive state and federal investigations down on the area? I really want these trials to start and the cases against them all to be aired. Can't happen soon enough.

They thought they would get away with it because they had been getting away with much lesser crimes for years. They had friends in high places in local government, probably not just in Pike County. They thought the false information they were providing LE and prosecutors would direct attention elsewhere, a tactic they had probably used before with other criminal activity. It came very close to working. JMO, had BCI and the AG's office not been involved, this would have remained a cold case. Sheriff Reader would have encountered dead ends and resistance in his investigation. Prosecutor Junk would have resisted bringing charges against the Wags.

Wags lost their perspective in comprehending how killing so many people from one family, with innocent children nearby would attract worldwide media attention.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

"The indictments allege that “the suspects purchased ammunition, a magazine clip, brass catcher(s), and a bug detector in preparation for the crimes.”

If they had a bug detector it must not have been very good if they got themselves recorded making threats against LE and the future govenor of Ohio. Unless they lost it or it was broken and not useable.

Maybe they purchased it for sweeping each Rhoden home and property for A/V, so that they could remove and destroy their devices. In their hubris, perhaps it never occurred to them that their own dwellings could be bugged. MOO

 

[Berrybell]

Maybe they purchased it for sweeping each Rhoden home and property for A/V, so that they could remove and destroy their devices. In their hubris, perhaps it never occurred to them that their own dwellings could be bugged. MOO

I agree no one in that family anticipated or suspected their homes or a.person being wired.they felt totally safe in their homes and with immediate family. They underestitmated LE.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe they purchased it for sweeping each Rhoden home and property for A/V, so that they could remove and destroy their devices. In their hubris, perhaps it never occurred to them that their own dwellings could be bugged. MOO

I also think they may have missed some cameras at Rhoden properties (Kenny or Chris Sr.) when doing their sweep, particularly outdoor cams/hunting cams. KR may have had some, too.

It's also possible (just speculation) that one of the Rhoden neighbors picked something up on their outdoor security cam. If the W's approached any of the crime scenes through woods or property adjacent to the crime scenes, they might have been detected that way. For example, if they parked down the road or near a neighbor's driveway.

I'm still prepared to be surprised at the trials when we finally hear the details of these murders. So little info has been released, its unknown what the evidence shows. Here's to hoping that one of the W4 decides to cut a deal and testify against the others.

 

[Sunshine99]

"The trials are set to begin this fall, said attorney Robert F. Krapenc. He represents Angela Wagner, one of the four Wagner family members charged in the Rhoden family homicides, which all occurred around the same time with 32 bullets fired into the eight victims."-Dispatch news 2020 04 22. There is also absence of info as evidence. Phones going dark, other devices going dark during the time of the murders.

 

[Nanasteele]

George Wagner iv will turn on the rest of his family if there is a chance of him being with his son one day, JMO

I totally agree!

 

[Nanasteele]

I agree no one in that family anticipated or suspected their homes or a.person being wired.they felt totally safe in their homes and with immediate family. They underestitmated LE.

JW's new wife sure left town and moved several times in fear! She knows something!

 

[sunshineray]

I believe (opinion) this was their mindset because:

#1.) Jake said they moved to AK to get away from the innuendos that they were guilty. Then he seemed surprised that quote: "it followed us here."
They simply thought that moving away was enough to "make it all go away."

#2.) They were surprised and angered that LE wasn't taking Billy's tips. Their lawyer did an interview ripping apart LE for how they were treating the Wagners and not getting back to Billy about his tips. This indicates to me that they thought they could control the investigation, that their tips would put LE on the trail of others leaving the Wagner 4 to get on with their life.

#3.) Angie gets desperate. What else would you call it when she goes on Rhoden group Facebook discussions and defends herself against people accusing her?
I think she was shocked at the SM attention and desperate to have posters stop accusing her and her family. Total strangers trashing her and she thinks she can control it.

#4.) Wanting to hurt or kill the Attorney General soon to become Governor, the Sheriff, Special agent Scheiderer and others who go against them. No one talks like this if they expect LE to come down hard on them. If they thought LE would go all out on investigating them, then they would feel LE was just doing their job.
Even the Mafia leave LE alone because they know they are just doing their job.

But the Wagners were extremely angry that BCI, DeWine and other agencies were heavily investigating them without letting up. How dare they do this! They should
not be allowed to do this! They were suppose to take the Wagner's DNA, laptops, phones, do interviews and take their tips and then go away, not hound them forever.

No statute of limitations for the 4 Wagners

It just amazes doesn't it? I think you laid it out there and it almost makes me speechless trying to figure how they could have such brain processes. How much more delusional can people be? I think they take the prize...life in prison.

 

[sunshineray]

They thought they would get away with it because they had been getting away with much lesser crimes for years. They had friends in high places in local government, probably not just in Pike County. They thought the false information they were providing LE and prosecutors would direct attention elsewhere, a tactic they had probably used before with other criminal activity. It came very close to working. JMO, had BCI and the AG's office not been involved, this would have remained a cold case. Sheriff Reader would have encountered dead ends and resistance in his investigation. Prosecutor Junk would have resisted bringing charges against the Wags.

Wags lost their perspective in comprehending how killing so many people from one family, with innocent children nearby would attract worldwide media attention.

Lost their minds, IMO, if they ever had them to begin with.

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe they purchased it for sweeping each Rhoden home and property for A/V, so that they could remove and destroy their devices. In their hubris, perhaps it never occurred to them that their own dwellings could be bugged. MOO

Yeah they probably used it during the crimes and then got rid of it. Guess they didn't give a thought to electronic receipts, store videos, parking lot videos. I wonder if AW wore a disguise on her shopping sprees.

 

[sunshineray]

I also think they may have missed some cameras at Rhoden properties (Kenny or Chris Sr.) when doing their sweep, particularly outdoor cams/hunting cams. KR may have had some, too.

It's also possible (just speculation) that one of the Rhoden neighbors picked something up on their outdoor security cam. If the W's approached any of the crime scenes through woods or property adjacent to the crime scenes, they might have been detected that way. For example, if they parked down the road or near a neighbor's driveway.

I'm still prepared to be surprised at the trials when we finally hear the details of these murders. So little info has been released, its unknown what the evidence shows. Here's to hoping that one of the W4 decides to cut a deal and testify against the others.

Didn't LM mention a cam hidden somewhere that looked like an owl or was that another family member?

 

[sunshineray]

JW's new wife sure left town and moved several times in fear! She knows something!

That poor girl. She never dreamed she'd be in a situation like she found herself. I wish her well, peace and happiness.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah they probably used it during the crimes and then got rid of it. Guess they didn't give a thought to electronic receipts, store videos, parking lot videos. I wonder if AW wore a disguise on her shopping sprees.

Even if she did wear a disguise they would have her vehicle on video in the parking lot. I don't understand her shopping at 5 Walmarts in the State of Ohio.
How would that throw LE off? I can't think of a reason to drive all over the State going to different Walmarts unless she thought it would throw off the investigation.
Going to a couple different Walmarts is normal but not 5.

....Note there is an image from April 21st, 2016....

Images (4-2-16) (4-15-16) (4-21-16)
Walmart - Coshocton, OH _ 63 Miles ENE of Columbus

4 Images and receipts
Walmart - Heath, OH _ 30 Miles East of Columbus

8 Images
Walmart - New Boston, OH _ Village in Portsmouth

7 Images
Walmart - Newark, OH _ 33 Miles East of Columbus

5 Images and receipts (4-7-16)
Walmart - Waverly, OH _ Waverly is where the Pike County Courthouse is.

Didn't LM mention a cam hidden somewhere that looked like an owl or was that another family member?

Rhoden family members release video plea for information about killings

"Chris had one even in a bird house, one of those shell cameras. We ain't heard on none of that either. Kenneth had cameras all over that place where he lived," Leonard Manley said.

 

[sunshineray]

Even if she did wear a disguise they would have her vehicle on video in the parking lot. I don't understand her shopping at 5 Walmarts in the State of Ohio.
How would that throw LE off? I can't think of a reason to drive all over the State going to different Walmarts unless she thought it would throw off the investigation.
Going to a couple different Walmarts is normal but not 5.

....Note there is an image from April 21st, 2016....

Images (4-2-16) (4-15-16) (4-21-16)
Walmart - Coshocton, OH _ 63 Miles ENE of Columbus

4 Images and receipts
Walmart - Heath, OH _ 30 Miles East of Columbus

8 Images
Walmart - New Boston, OH _ Village in Portsmouth

7 Images
Walmart - Newark, OH _ 33 Miles East of Columbus

5 Images and receipts (4-7-16)
Walmart - Waverly, OH _ Waverly is where the Pike County Courthouse is.


Rhoden family members release video plea for information about killings

"Chris had one even in a bird house, one of those shell cameras. We ain't heard on none of that either. Kenneth had cameras all over that place where he lived," Leonard Manley said.

She must have thought she was being stealthy...again it boggles the mind as to why?
Thank you for finding that! I thought it was LM that mentioned that.

 

[Cool Cats]

She must have thought she was being stealthy...again it boggles the mind as to why?
Thank you for finding that! I thought it was LM that mentioned that.

No problem.

Just in case you or someone else on here doesn't know about this search feature, I want to point it out.

You can search through all your posts (or someone elses).

For example, I wanted to find out where I posted about the different Walmarts (and camera in birdhouse) so I could copy and paste them. So in the search I typed in Walmart, for member I put myself, and I kept the search on this forum. Then a bunch of my posts come up referencing Walmart.

Like if I want to find the photos I posted of the examples of boots Angie bought, I can type in Walmart boots and easily find the photos:

https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/732prfjygw6tp04l/images/1-af7990f0b4.jpg

Original SWAT 1152 Women's Classic 9" Side Zip Boot

Reeboks Mens Rapid Response



Tactical Research Sage Green Kiowa Boot



WALMART WOMEN'S GEORGIA BOOT G31

Cool Cats, Mar 21, 2020 - If you click on this date it goes right to my original post.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Great post and funny!

"She nibbles on his hind end for a while"

"Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family"

Yes! It was about more than custody....Jake wanted control of Hanna and wanted her back and was jealous. I used to think Chris Senior was the main target, now I think it was Hanna. I think they made it obvious it was Hanna because they waited for her to come home from the hospital and could barely wait, not even a week, to go after her and her family.

Some posters have given their opinion that HR was not the target and custody was not the main motive but I'm not convinced that an undercurrent of drugs was a motive.

As far as the fight with Chris being a part of the motive, remember, they were planning this starting in January 2016 and the "mystery fight" with Chris appears to have happened much nearer to April 22nd 2016.

So why were they planning murder in January before these confrontations? Because at that time it was all about HR.

As for Fred and GW4, it was strange that GW4 totally ignored her the last time he was in court. She was looking right at him, practically alone on that side of the courtroom except for Robin, and he didn't give her a single glance as he walked out.
Other posters wondered about it too.

And George IV is the only one she spoke out about to the media after a hearing:

George Wagner has a young son. He appears much thinner since his arrest last November. His grandmother, Fredericka Wagner, was in court Wednesday to support him along with his aunt, Robin Wagner.

“George is innocent. My whole family is innocent. That’s all I have to say. It will all come out eventually,” Fredericka Wagner said after the hearing. “He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob. Our whole family and we just believe, I know Christ is with him.

Note she says Jake did, past tense, have faith in God. Freudian slip?

BBM

As far as the fight with Chris being a part of the motive, remember, they were planning this starting in January 2016 and the "mystery fight" with Chris appears to have happened much nearer to April 22nd 2016.

That is the only confrontation we know about at this time. But I am certain Hanna was the target and it was Jake's show all the way. He was the only one who had anything to gain.

As for Fred and GW4, it was strange that GW4 totally ignored her the last time he was in court. She was looking right at him, practically alone on that side of the courtroom except for Robin, and he didn't give her a single glance as he walked out.

Watch her face when he turns away without even glancing at her. She was hurt, no doubt about it. To my way of thinking George is either being very careful to follow the judges "no contact" order to the letter, or he in some way blames Fred for it all. Maybe he thinks that even if she had no part in the murders (we have no evidence she did and her charges were dismissed) she played a part by encouraging it. But she definitely does not look at Jake the same way she looks at George.

When Fred looks at George there is a look of sympathy or maybe even guilt there that is absent when she looks at Jake, Billy or Angie. It's like she knows he was rooked into the whole thing by Jake and Angie playing on his weakness's of no impulse control and hot temper and was in over his head from day one. I don't think this was the first time George was talked into doing something by Jake.

He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob.
Maybe George had more faith than the other three from the start but was easily swayed by Jake. I don't think Jake was ever religious. The Bible says your wife is your helpmate and to cherish her as part of yourself, not beat around on her everyday.

I honestly think that George is the only one suffering remorse for what happened. He is the only one showing physical effects from it anyway.

Remember this.

There are three kinds of people in this world:

Those who watch things happen (Billy).

Those who make things happen (Angie and Jake).

And those who ask "what the heck just happened?" (George).

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I wonder what made him so certain he wouldn't be arrested?

I sometimes think he was the one who sat home and babysat the kids that night. Other times I think with his quick temper he would have been in the thick of it all.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

As far as the fight with Chris being a part of the motive, remember, they were planning this starting in January 2016 and the "mystery fight" with Chris appears to have happened much nearer to April 22nd 2016.

That is the only confrontation we know about at this time. But I am certain Hanna was the target and it was Jake's show all the way. He was the only one who had anything to gain.

As for Fred and GW4, it was strange that GW4 totally ignored her the last time he was in court. She was looking right at him, practically alone on that side of the courtroom except for Robin, and he didn't give her a single glance as he walked out.

Watch her face when he turns away without even glancing at her. She was hurt, no doubt about it. To my way of thinking George is either being very careful to follow the judges "no contact" order to the letter, or he in some way blames Fred for it all. Maybe he thinks that even if she had no part in the murders (we have no evidence she did and her charges were dismissed) she played a part by encouraging it. But she definitely does not look at Jake the same way she looks at George.

When Fred looks at George there is a look of sympathy or maybe even guilt there that is absent when she looks at Jake, Billy or Angie. It's like she knows he was rooked into the whole thing by Jake and Angie playing on his weakness's of no impulse control and hot temper and was in over his head from day one. I don't think this was the first time George was talked into doing something by Jake.

He’s lost a lot of weight. But he’s strong and he’s got a strong faith in God. So have I and so did Jacob.
Maybe George had more faith than the other three from the start but was easily swayed by Jake. I don't think Jake was ever religious. The Bible says your wife is your helpmate and to cherish her as part of yourself, not beat around on her everyday.

I honestly think that George is the only one suffering remorse for what happened. He is the only one showing physical effects from it anyway.

Remember this.

There are three kinds of people in this world:

Those who watch things happen (Billy).

Those who make things happen (Angie and Jake).

And those who ask "what the heck just happened?" (George).

JMO

Post from January 21, 2020 GW4 hearing:

IType Well-Known Member:

"BBM--during that conversation after the hearing was adjourned, I overheard a background conversation with two women. the person called to someone named "Robin" and asked a question, I don't recall the exact wording. The "Robin" answered her by saying something about taking presents and mentioned a "little boy". She mentioned several dinosaur toys. I wonder if the "Robin" is RW and she was talking about taking Christmas presents to GW4's son. IMO"

"GW4 certainly looked very concerned today. Maybe there will be a YouTube video up soon so I can watch itain."

I think IType is right about Robin and the Christmas presents. It could be that Robin is helping build a bridge between GW4 and his son, after all, there is a photo of Robin teary eyed at GW4's arraignment.

( Go to Bing Search and type in "George Wagner IV Court" then click on IMAGES. Photo is 2nd row 4th photo down, ENLARGE photo. Robin is with Chris, Angie's brother.)

I suspect Angie relies on her brother because he set up her 3-way call between Jake, Rita and Angela.

Point is, if GW4 is getting any type of help or support from Robin, then I'm surprised that he ignored Fred that day in court. For him to ignore her rather than giving her a simple nod acknowledging her presence could be, as you say, that he blames her for something. Maybe for the incriminating recordings made at her house?

I do not think he is ignoring her because of strict adherence to the no-contact order. Other possibilities are that he was just not in the mood to see anybody, or he can't look family in the eye because he is turning against his family members.

Sometimes I feel like he is a time bomb waiting to go off. If your right that he has low impulse control then he could, in a moment of frustration, blurt out something bad that could be used against him to staff, on the phone, through letters, to other inmates etc...

Right now the biggest thing is to see if and when he finally gets a new hearing date, it's been 4 months!