OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

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Cool Cats

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IMO, FW's weak spot might be providing some financing to the criminal activity.

Prosecution sure included a lot of Amazon purchases of FWs, both before and after the crime. Also "someone" purchased a lot of protective equipment over the internet, right after the crime. I can't think of anyone else "she" would purchase a 4XL suede jacket for?

Just speculating and wondering out loud:D:cool:;):rolleyes:

JMO, MOO, etc.

ETA - The W4 started surveillance of someone in 2014. Interestingly enough, FW's Amazon purchases in her discovery start at the very same time.....
WOW!

Never even thought of that! That Fred could get caught up in civil litigation because all those records are out there of all these purchases she made on-line that the Wagner's could have used in their crimes. Did she pay for internet service for them when they started their 2014 surveillance as you mention?
I think this is the time when Jake and GW4 bought the Peterson Rd. property from her for a token $1.00, someone posted a link to this but the link isn't working now.

Point is, how much financial support was she giving them during 2014 all the way to May 2017 when the surveillance stopped? Should she have known what was going on with her help? How could she not know? They had meetings at her house discussing criminal matters, she is part of their criminal conspiracy.

Interesting.
 

Puzzles8

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WOW!

Never even thought of that! That Fred could get caught up in civil litigation because all those records are out there of all these purchases she made on-line that the Wagner's could have used in their crimes. Did she pay for internet service for them when they started their 2014 surveillance as you mention?
I think this is the time when Jake and GW4 bought the Peterson Rd. property from her for a token $1.00, someone posted a link to this but the link isn't working now.

Point is, how much financial support was she giving them during 2014 all the way to May 2017 when the surveillance stopped? Should she have known what was going on with her help? How could she not know? They had meetings at her house discussing criminal matters, she is part of their criminal conspiracy.

Interesting.
Jake and George "purchased" the Peterson farm 2/2014. As Cool Cats mentions, the title to the 70+ acre farm and home was transferred into J & G name for a token $1. No mortgage.

An interesting question becomes, why would the previous owners basically give this property to G & J?

A year later G & J took out a $ 75,000 home equity loan against this property. That is a lot of money. What would G & J need that amount of ready cash for?

Lots of questions tonight, not so many answers.....

Title transactions and loan information regarding this property can be researched through

https://www.uslandrecords.com/ohlr3/controller;jsessionid=4735676941C909D667D8084B69325CFE
 

NotHammerToed

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Off topic - If a movie is made based off this crime the proceeds had better go to the Rhodens and the Gilleys. Also, the name of the movie should aptly be named - Evil Ones - not that it’s important.
 

iridized

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Jake and George "purchased" the Peterson farm 2/2014. As Cool Cats mentions, the title to the 70+ acre farm and home was transferred into J & G name for a token $1. No mortgage.

An interesting question becomes, why would the previous owners basically give this property to G & J?

A year later G & J took out a $ 75,000 home equity loan against this property. That is a lot of money. What would G & J need that amount of ready cash for?

Lots of questions tonight, not so many answers.....

Title transactions and loan information regarding this property can be researched through

https://www.uslandrecords.com/ohlr3/controller;jsessionid=4735676941C909D667D8084B69325CFE
Almost every deed includes a sentence in the first paragraph that reads substantially as follows, “For one dollar and other good and valuable consideration.” Sometimes, the number is $10, and sometimes, the sequence of the words is slightly different. However, such a statement appears in almost every real estate deed, whether the real estate was a gift or whether it was sold for $1 million.

Check your own deeds to your property. Mine says exactly that even though I had a mortgage.
 

iridized

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Off topic - If a movie is made based off this crime the proceeds had better go to the Rhodens and the Gilleys. Also, the name of the movie should aptly be named - Evil Ones - not that it’s important.
Why? The producers and directors of the movie would be deserving of the profits. Why should people be paid just for being related to a murder victim? The title you chose is good. Catchy.
 

Caylee Advocate

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Off topic - If a movie is made based off this crime the proceeds had better go to the Rhodens and the Gilleys. Also, the name of the movie should aptly be named - Evil Ones - not that it’s important.

IMO, the ones who should be compensated would be the children, and monies put in trusts for them.
 

Puzzles8

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Almost every deed includes a sentence in the first paragraph that reads substantially as follows, “For one dollar and other good and valuable consideration.” Sometimes, the number is $10, and sometimes, the sequence of the words is slightly different. However, such a statement appears in almost every real estate deed, whether the real estate was a gift or whether it was sold for $1 million.

Check your own deeds to your property. Mine says exactly that even though I had a mortgage.
It doesn't matter if the property is a gift, also doesn't matter what the buyer paid for it. It only matters if the property was sold with a legal lien (mortgage) against it.

I have looked at our mortgage. The deed to my home also includes a "legal lien" by our mortgage company.

I can't imagine any mortgage company would be foolish enough to lend a buyer a large amount of money for the purchase of a home and not have it leveraged against the property title until it is completely paid off.

JMO, MOO, etc.
 
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iridized

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It doesn't matter if the property is a gift, also doesn't matter what the buyer paid for it. It only matters if the property was sold with a legal lien (mortgage) against it.

I have looked at our mortgage. The deed to my home also includes a "legal lien" by our mortgage company.

I can't imagine any mortgage company would be foolish enough to lend a buyer a large amount of money for the purchase of a home and not have it leveraged against the property title until it is completely paid off.

JMO, MOO, etc.
Deeds and titles are two different things; a deed is a legal document used to confirm or convey the ownership rights to a property. A deed or property deed must be a physical document signed by both the buyer and the grantor or seller, whereas title, however, is the legal way of saying you have property ownership. The title (or property title) is not a document, but a concept that says you have the rights to use that property.
 

Betty P

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Jake and George "purchased" the Peterson farm 2/2014. As Cool Cats mentions, the title to the 70+ acre farm and home was transferred into J & G name for a token $1. No mortgage.

An interesting question becomes, why would the previous owners basically give this property to G & J?

A year later G & J took out a $ 75,000 home equity loan against this property. That is a lot of money. What would G & J need that amount of ready cash for?

Lots of questions tonight, not so many answers.....

Title transactions and loan information regarding this property can be researched through

https://www.uslandrecords.com/ohlr3/controller;jsessionid=4735676941C909D667D8084B69325CFE

Good work! I need to add this to the timeline.

Anyone have anything else, let me know.
 

RAISINISBACK

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Yes it is possible that GW4, with the most to lose and with the weakest reason to be involved, decided to avoid the inside areas of the crime scenes to make sure there was no chance of his DNA being found. He may have even said that he would participate, in order to stand with his family, but wanted to remain outside with no chance of him being connected to the victims.

I find this very plausible because emphasis was brought up early regarding his DNA. From what was said, the prosecution is not using his DNA against him at trial. He may have told (nagged) his attorneys that his DNA can't be there because he was never over visiting the victims (but that's not what he really meant.) DNA is however, listed in evidence for all 4 Wagners.

The Wagner's talked as though they did not expect all 4 to be arrested. I find this peculiar. Again, they may have taken greater measures to distance GW4 from the crimes. Just theory.

Remember, he was the only one of the 4 asking for bail at his arraignment.
I think he was surprised he got arrested....2 Cents......

If GW4 was home babysitting instead of going out that night he and the others must be really shocked that it did not protect him in any way. I always thought Angie stayed home to babysit, now I am wondering if it was GW4? I believe for sure Jake and Billy went, no doubt in my mind there.

George is also the only one who got sympathetic looks from Fred and the only one she tried to communicate with through his attorney early on after she began attending the pre trials. I think he was the driver who stayed in the car with the sleeping kids. If so i also think he is the one who got Kenny killed when Kenny saw and knew who he was.

Don't leave out Angie. No doubt she was there along with Jake telling Billy and George what to do.
JMO
 

Betty P

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George is also the only one who got sympathetic looks from Fred and the only one she tried to communicate with through his attorney early on after she began attending the pre trials. I think he was the driver who stayed in the car with the sleeping kids. If so i also think he is the one who got Kenny killed when Kenny saw and knew who he was.

Don't leave out Angie. No doubt she was there along with Jake telling Billy and George what to do.
JMO

Interesting scenario, Raisinisback.
 

Loomis124

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Maybe they just pressed the shoes down into the blood in an attempt to frame LM.

Possible, but I think it's all about their hammertoe. Odd, isn't it? That someone would go to so much trouble to unknowingly bring attention to a major piece of evidence against yourself. All just my OPINION before the hornets start attacking me. The evidence will speak for itself when the time is ripe. Way to go, Prosecution!
 

RAISINISBACK

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Deeds and titles are two different things; a deed is a legal document used to confirm or convey the ownership rights to a property. A deed or property deed must be a physical document signed by both the buyer and the grantor or seller, whereas title, however, is the legal way of saying you have property ownership. The title (or property title) is not a document, but a concept that says you have the rights to use that property.
I paid cash for my home. The person who owned it before me paid cash for it. My deed says for "the sum of 10.00(ten dollars) the seller does hereby grant and convey to (insert names here) a married couple and their assigns and heirs in perpetuity property located in (insert name of county here) county in the state of .(insert state here) (insert legal description here).

The deed of the former owner is in the abstract and it says the same. My deed is signed by the former owner but hubby and I did not have to sign it.

It makes a difference whether it is a quit claim deed or a warranted deed also and whether the abstract has been brought up to date by a title company and read by an attorney. We had to do this for another property we bought last year and it was fairly expensive. Depending on how many pages an abstract can cost up to 3000.00 and we paid the attorney 300.00.
JMO
 

Chingaling

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Possible, but I think it's all about their hammertoe. Odd, isn't it? That someone would go to so much trouble to unknowingly bring attention to a major piece of evidence against yourself. All just my OPINION before the hornets start attacking me. The evidence will speak for itself when the time is ripe. Way to go, Prosecution!
You think they wore 2 left shoes?
 

Cool Cats

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Was it one person wearing two left shoes in two sizes? Not sure I get it. JMO

Or...could it have something to do with hammer toe?

I think only one killer was wearing the size 11W Walmart shoe. I think this killer stepped in blood from the "drag marks" on Chris's floor, but only with their left shoe. The killer's left shoe print was then found inside the house near the front door. Then when the killer stepped outside onto the porch, which is North of the front door, they left a second bloody shoeprint.

I think this same person then went to Dana's and still had enough blood on their left 11W shoe to leave one more print.

In theory, even if the footprint at Dana's was invisible to the naked eye, or just a partial print, Luminol would have very easily identified it. Opinion

LP-4-7820_2048x2048.png

Crime-Scene-Spray.jpg


Crime Scene Spray - Awesome Stuff 365

The luminol reacts with the iron in blood hemoglobin and glows a bluish purple when the lights are turned out. It will actually react to any iron present on a surface where it is sprayed.
 
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Cool Cats

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George is also the only one who got sympathetic looks from Fred and the only one she tried to communicate with through his attorney early on after she began attending the pre trials. I think he was the driver who stayed in the car with the sleeping kids. If so i also think he is the one who got Kenny killed when Kenny saw and knew who he was.

Don't leave out Angie. No doubt she was there along with Jake telling Billy and George what to do.
JMO
Agree about George and in regards to not leaving out Angie......

LOL :eek: Yes ;) in past discussions with you I would relegate Angie to being the babysitter at home because I figured the guys would not want her to see the violence and you would argue why you believed she was there.

However, as time marches on I believe Angie is more involved than I previously realized. Mastermind even? I believe she is the sole instigator of the fake custody documents including signing her mom's name and telling her mom to take the blame so as not to jeopardize her case. The manic phone calls from jail, even roping her brother and Jake into a forbidden 3-Way call, show how controlling and obsessed and manipulating she is towards her family.

Then she bought at least 2 pairs of shoes that the shoe print expert matches to Chris's trailer and to Dana's. And if she bought a pair of shoes for herself it means she had planned to be at the crime scenes, in fact the evidence specifically mentions 1 or 2 women's boots from Walmart.

Then there is the Oxygen show where a credible witness explains that Angie was apparently very mad at Hanna for leaving Jake, much "bad blood" between them.
Yet she told a different story to the press and even told Jake what to say. In fact, Jake did not even communicate with the press without her doing it with him, they were always giving interviews together. She made sure he said what she wanted, correcting him even. She even went into Facebook groups to try to sway the narrative on her family.

So more and more I think Angie was at the crime scenes. And I think she is trying to manipulate someone, in some way, regarding her stubborn refusal to wear her regular clothes to court. Who does that after going on 2 years in jail?
 
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