OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

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They stop the decomposition by refrigeration. This is important because they want to accurately estimate the time of death. This can make a huge difference in who might be guilty in a murder case.

Due to decomposition John Doe's estimated TOD is from 5 - 6pm so Jane Doe could not have done it. Due to decomposition John Doe's estimated TOD is from 10pm to 11:00pm - 5 hours later - so Jane Doe could have done it.

Determining Time of Death

There are actually three different times of death:

  • The physiologic time of death, when the victim’s vital functions actually ceased.
  • The legal time of death, the time recorded on the death certificate.
  • The estimated time of death, the time the medical examiner estimates that death occurred.
It is important to note that the estimated time of death can vary greatly from the legal time of death and the physiologic time of death.

The only absolutely accurate determination of the time of death is the uncommon circumstance in which a person died with a physician or other skilled medical professional present. A death witnessed in this fashion is the only time that the three above times of death would correlate with one another.


They stop the decomposition by refrigeration. This is important because they want to accurately estimate the time of death. This can make a huge difference in who might be guilty in a murder case.

Due to decomposition John Doe's estimated TOD is from 5 - 6pm so Jane Doe could not have done it. Due to decomposition John Doe's estimated TOD is from 10pm to 11:00pm - 5 hours later - so Jane Doe could have done it.

Determining Time of Death

There are actually three different times of death:

  • The physiologic time of death, when the victim’s vital functions actually ceased.
  • The legal time of death, the time recorded on the death certificate.
  • The estimated time of death, the time the medical examiner estimates that death occurred.
It is important to note that the estimated time of death can vary greatly from the legal time of death and the physiologic time of death.

The only absolutely accurate determination of the time of death is the uncommon circumstance in which a person died with a physician or other skilled medical professional present. A death witnessed in this fashion is the only time that the three above times of death would correlate with one another.

You mention: They stop the decomposition by refrigeration. This is important because they want to accurately estimate the time of death. This can make a huge difference in who might be guilty in a murder case.

In a case like this, the time of death has to be determined before the body is refrigerated. Refrigeration is a way some perps use to make it difficult to determine the time of death. Some think the reason windows were open at two Rhoden homes was to change the ambient temperature and mislead the times of death. The time of death is determined by body temperature and ambient temperature in bodies found soon after death.

How Is Time of Death Determined for a Crime-Scene Victim?

According to Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, time of death on a fresh corpse can best be ascertained via a measurement of core temperature. “It’s not linear,” Kobilinsky cautions. Still, he says, “most examiners use a formula to…come up with an approximate range.”
For the first several hours after one’s heart has stopped beating, the body’s core temperature drops towards ambient temperature (i.e. room temperature, if indoors). The formula approximates that the body loses 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit per hour, so the rectal temperature is subtracted from the normal body temperature of 98 degrees. The difference between the two is divided by 1.5, and that final number is used to approximate the time since death.

Of course that simple formula only works if several factors are assumed constant: that the ambient temperature hasn’t changed since the death… or that the victim was discovered clothed and in the air rather than in, say, a bathtub full of water. But according to Nathan Lents, a forensic biologist colleague of Kobilinsky at John Jay, things are rarely so simple.

“A body in the field—rarely are you so lucky that it’s 72 degrees all day and all night long,” he says.

In a climate-controlled environment, it will take six or seven hours for a body to reach ambient temperature. Further biological evidence taken in conjunction with core temperature helps better fill out the picture.

Blood starts to pool

One of those factors is livor mortis. Once the heart stops beating, blood stops circulating and responds instead to gravity, pooling into the parts of the body closest to the ground. This causes marbleized discoloration of the body. Livor mortis generally begins 20 to 30 minutes after the heart stops beating, but passes through stages. Between 30 minutes after death and approximately one hour, for example, the skin will “blanch” when pushed, with blood leaving the area where pressure is applied. After that, once livor mortis has fully set in, blanching ends.

In addition to helping with time of death, livor mortis can also show investigators that the body has been moved if the markings of livor mortis don’t correspond with the position the body is in.


Becoming a stiff

About three to six hours after death, rigor mortis begins to affect the corpse. Muscles lock into place, beginning with small muscles in the head, the eyelids and the jaw, before moving on to fingertips, neck and then larger muscles. Rigor mortis sets for 18 to 36 hours before dissipating.

Once livor mortis, rigor mortis and ambient temperature are all in place, determining a precise window of death becomes trickier.
 
Angela Wagner Comment: was Really

Chris Rhodens Sr didn’t get a autopsy’s until Monday so in fact he was deceased 2 days longer than some of the other members of the family? Again this is just my opinion

They were all held in refrigerated vehicles and lockers. The information in the preliminary autopsy is a realistic assessment by the coroner. If it were due to a delay in processing CR1's body, it would have been noted as such.
 
Who is that in handcuffs by the black truck?

Probably James Manley. Recall LE suspected him and his sister at the beginning. They submitted to questioning, DNA, fingerprint testing, etc. and were cleared.

The Wagners killed the Rhodens. DNA will prove it, along with ballistics evidence, blood evidence and 4 terabytes of other evidence.
 
I said:

"This is the only thing that makes sense to me as to how he was shot in the eye."

And: "2 Cents"

Some things are common sense, his face had to be facing the killer for the killer to even be able to shoot him directly in the eye. I don't see the killer boosting themselves up on the bunk to stand over him to shoot him in the eye, it makes more sense that he was already turned towards the killer, like if he got woke up and looked in that direction which is what the whole conversation was about.

It was a small camper, his bed was near the door. It likely happened very quickly. He may or may not have seen them before he was shot. It really doesn't matter, LE found the killers and they will be tried soon, hopefully this fall or winter.
 
Probably James Manley. Recall LE suspected him and his sister at the beginning. They submitted to questioning, DNA, fingerprint testing, etc. and were cleared.

The Wagners killed the Rhodens. DNA will prove it, along with ballistics evidence, blood evidence and 4 terabytes of other evidence.
JM had illegal plates on his truck. They may have cuffed him till they sorted that out. I didn't think that person was cuffed, I thought they were just standing with hands behind their back as some people do...
 
They were all held in refrigerated vehicles and lockers. The information in the preliminary autopsy is a realistic assessment by the coroner. If it were due to a delay in processing CR1's body, it would have been noted as such.
D
 
Sorry for some bumping around in here.

Some posts that were Alerted on and removed have been reinstated because a link was in fact provided further down thread.

Thanks for all your efforts, sillybilly, in making sure we keep up the quality of this sub forum. There are some important trials ahead and we want to be sure we have our facts straight here. We appreciate your assistance in helping us keep a quality sub here.
 
Those hounds bark at everything. You would get so used to hearing it that you don’t notice it. I lived half a block from a busy railroad and trains with blaring air horns didn’t wake me after a short time...

I could see that. But I'm still left wondering how they got close enough to 6 of the 8 to leave a muzzle burn? I was trying to think of ways the W's may have incapacitated them. The only thing I could come up with that might not show up on a standard tox screen is ketamine, a horse tranquilizer. However, it's got enough of a street drug devotion, that it may be standard also. And then, how would they dose them? If the new Mom was nursing, that would be a huge problem. Many potential problems with that.

I considered: carbon monoxide (but leaves visible signs to the body, would be much more harmful to the children...I would think, and would show up on a tox screen; stun gun (would leave tell-tale marks), and a couple other things that would leave evident signs or show up in a tox report.

Anybody have ideas? (Other than what I can't bear to think about, threat to the young babies and/or dogs.) I can't even kind of go there.
 
Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge



I wonder who these "other persons" were, that an informant said they (*Wagner's*)) discussed taking revenge against? I have thoughts, but just no proof so my lips are zipped. :D
 
JM had illegal plates on his truck. They may have cuffed him till they sorted that out. I didn't think that person was cuffed, I thought they were just standing with hands behind their back as some people do...


JMO, but to me it looks like LM and I agree, I see no handcuffs. Possibly JM was in the truck and his Dad was talking to him????
 
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After the murders happened I think Fred became suspicious that her family did it because they were discussing revenge and jail breaks in front of her.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

"Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. "

It also looks like Fred was helping her family hide their involvement in the murders because before Fred testified before the GJ she searched on-line for what the penalties are for lying to the GJ.

AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

"The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018."

I don't think Rita knew anything about the murders. It's my theory that Angie signed Rita's signature on the fraudulent custody documents without Rita knowing about it, then when Rita got her GJ summons Angie admitted the fraud but only to convince Rita to lie about it. If Angie hid fraud from her mom she would hide murder from her as well.

‘It’s not a good, Christian thing to lie’ Pike County grandmother enters plea deal

"Canepa said Rita Newcomb admitted to falsely testifying before the grand jury because her daughter, Angela Wagner, told her to.

When Judge Randy Deering asked Newcomb if she was coerced into pleading guilty, she responded: “It’s not a good, Christian thing to lie, so I didn’t want to do that anymore.”
But surely RN was aware of their previous criminal activities. Maybe a case of denial where she didn’t want to believe her daughter was a felon.
 
But surely RN was aware of their previous criminal activities. Maybe a case of denial where she didn’t want to believe her daughter was a felon.
Rita believed what Angie told her to believe. Angie got her to sit on house arrest for 1 year and lie that she signed forged documents that Angie actually signed.

Then, Rita is out on bail and court ordered not to have contact with Angie and the others. In my opinion Angie knows Rita's bond could be revoked if she doesn't abide by all the rules of her release.

So what does Angie do? Calls her mom over a 6 month period of time. Angie is not jeopardizing her freedom because she's already locked up, but Rita gets a Motion to Revoke Bond filed against her and almost ends up going to jail along with a stern warning from the judge.

This is extremely controlling behavior on Angie's part and quite frankly I do not know anyone who would sit on house arrest for a year and take a chance on being sent to jail, all because their daughter told them to. Imagine how hard it was for Rita waiting for her Bond Revocation Hearing, not knowing if she would leave court in handcuffs.

Prosecution asks for Rita Newcomb's bond to be revoked

July 25th 2019

“The court considers violation of a bail order as a very serious matter,” Deering said. “If that call is from someone she’s been ordered not to have contact with, I would expect her to tell that person that she’s not permitted to have contact and hang up the phone.”

“No contact means no contact of any kind, regardless of what the discussion may be. If it’s determined they were discussing cases, then it’s much more egregious,” Deering said.


Judge expands court order for Pike Co. grandmother to have no contact with daughter

August 28, 2019

“It’s a serious thing to violate court orders and you could go to jail,” Deering said. "There’s been a serious violation of this court order, so I’m going to expand the order. No phone calls can be taken from Angela Wagner and no calls are to be taken by her from anyone else in that house.

If the court finds calls are being received or made to Wagner or if people while at that house are receiving or making calls to her then one of two things will happen; you’ll go to jail or you can’t live in that home anymore."

 
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I could see that. But I'm still left wondering how they got close enough to 6 of the 8 to leave a muzzle burn? I was trying to think of ways the W's may have incapacitated them. The only thing I could come up with that might not show up on a standard tox screen is ketamine, a horse tranquilizer. However, it's got enough of a street drug devotion, that it may be standard also. And then, how would they dose them? If the new Mom was nursing, that would be a huge problem. Many potential problems with that.

I considered: carbon monoxide (but leaves visible signs to the body, would be much more harmful to the children...I would think, and would show up on a tox screen; stun gun (would leave tell-tale marks), and a couple other things that would leave evident signs or show up in a tox report.

Anybody have ideas? (Other than what I can't bear to think about, threat to the young babies and/or dogs.) I can't even kind of go there.

Even if the Rhodens were awakened by the noise, if you wake up to an armed person saying don’t move, you probably won’t move. I have always thought this was more of a “revenge” murder. I think the Ws wanted the Rs to know who was killing them. Like a “see what happens when you cross us” situation. They may have threatened to kill the kids if they moved. At that point they could easily get close enough, or, maybe already close enough, to leave the muzzle burns on skin. All this is just an opinion on what may have happened.
 
Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge



I wonder who these "other persons" were, that an informant said they (*Wagner's*)) discussed taking revenge against? I have thoughts, but just no proof so my lips are zipped. :D

I think she said it was a confidential reliable source. For some reason they did not want to divulge if it was a person or a listening device of some kind. It could have been a person but I don’t think, in my opinion, that we know what the source was at this time.
 
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