OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #57

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Tiff23fr said:
I have wondered about Billy a good bit. Some of the things we heard with George I don't feel can be spun the same way. He didn't live at Peterson from what we have learned and it might be easier for the defense to paint a picture of him being slightly more distanced from the "sharing of everything" and casings being on the property where he lived. JMO
Click to expand...

I noticed something interesting that the prosecution said in response to his bond motion:

The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018.

I was wondering why is what Fred looks up on-line relative to Billy's bond request?

I'm still not sure, but it made me realize that Billy was likely living with Fred and that means he was probably using her computer, at least using her router.

Point is, I wouldn't be surprised if they have found searches and purchases that would tie Billy into the murders.

We know he was part of the texts and phone calls between the 4 of them, and part of the incriminating calls GW4 made.

8,000 total recordings and texts. So they could have some very incriminating conversations from him.

You bring up a very good point. The maglite silencer was in the well and casings were on and buried in the ground at 260 Peterson Rd. and Angela, GW4 and Jake are tied into that because they lived there.

The big question is, did Billy ever live there? And if so, when?
 
Loomis124 said:
Something just dawned on me. BW's Discovery (see p.16 on Media & Timeline):

Billy Wagner's Cell Tower Records
March 2016 (1 page)
April 2016 (1 page)
Big Bear Lake (1 excel spreadsheet)

Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)

IMO, BW was living at Big Bear Lake in March and April, thus the 519 custody messages under HIS cell tower records.

Wow.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Jmo is BW billy? I don’t think he was living at big bear lake
 
Tiff23fr said:
I have wondered about Billy a good bit. Some of the things we heard with George I don't feel can be spun the same way. He didn't live at Peterson from what we have learned and it might be easier for the defense to paint a picture of him being slightly more distanced from the "sharing of everything" and casings being on the property where he lived. JMO
Click to expand...
The thing is right now from what I heard, they really don't have a case against George yet. They have casings from his gun, but can't put the gun in his hand, they have shoe prints but can't put the shoes on his feet, they have statements made by him but he could argue he knew about everything afterwards and that's why he said what he did. I know they have a lot more, but if I was on the jury right now, he would walk, on everything but accessory after the fact and obstruction.

JMO
 
Loomis124 said:
Something just dawned on me. BW's Discovery (see p.16 on Media & Timeline):

Billy Wagner's Cell Tower Records
March 2016 (1 page)
April 2016 (1 page)
Big Bear Lake (1 excel spreadsheet)

Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)

IMO, BW was living at Big Bear Lake in March and April, thus the 519 custody messages under HIS cell tower records.

Wow.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Maybe working there or if they have a bar as most vacation spots do, hanging out at the bar.

JMO
 
Cool Cats said:
I noticed something interesting that the prosecution said in response to his bond motion:

The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018.

I was wondering why is what Fred looks up on-line relative to Billy's bond request?

I'm still not sure, but it made me realize that Billy was likely living with Fred and that means he was probably using her computer, at least using her router.

Point is, I wouldn't be surprised if they have found searches and purchases that would tie Billy into the murders.

We know he was part of the texts and phone calls between the 4 of them, and part of the incriminating calls GW4 made.

8,000 total recordings and texts. So they could have some very incriminating conversations from him.

You bring up a very good point. The maglite silencer was in the well and casings were on and buried in the ground at 260 Peterson Rd. and Angela, GW4 and Jake are tied into that because they lived there.

The big question is, did Billy ever live there? And if so, when?
Click to expand...

Hey, CC, can you please post a copy or link to that document? TIA
 
Loomis124 said:
Something just dawned on me. BW's Discovery (see p.16 on Media & Timeline):

Billy Wagner's Cell Tower Records
March 2016 (1 page)
April 2016 (1 page)
Big Bear Lake (1 excel spreadsheet)

Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)

IMO, BW was living at Big Bear Lake in March and April, thus the 519 custody messages under HIS cell tower records.

Wow.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Billy isn't the only one with the BBL in his discovery or the custody messages (I'm sure but will double check) so I don't think he lived there at BBL.

As far as what we know, Billy was on disability, broke, and working for Fred and I think he would be living with Fred because it was free. I remember it came out during Fred's pre trial somewhere that Billy had been staying in his old room at Freds helping care for his dad.

I think most of those custody messages will be on Angela's laptop, the laptop in Jake's name that they think both Angela and Jake used.

Opinion
 
Cool Cats said:
Billy isn't the only one with the BBL in his discovery or the custody messages (I'm sure but will double check) so I don't think he lived there at BBL.

As far as what we know, Billy was on disability, broke, and working for Fred and I think he would be living with Fred because it was free. I remember it came out during Fred's pre trial somewhere that Billy had been staying in his old room at Freds helping care for his dad.

I think most of those custody messages will be on Angela's laptop, the laptop in Jake's name that they think both Angela and Jake used.

Opinion
Click to expand...

"Billy's cell tower records" seems to stand out. But maybe not. There was some reason BBL was mentioned. JMO.
 
Cool Cats said:
I noticed something interesting that the prosecution said in response to his bond motion:

The court filing also reveals that Billy Wagner’s mother, Fredericka, who had been previously charged with perjury, searched for penalties related to lying to the grand jury the night before she testified in 2018.

I was wondering why is what Fred looks up on-line relative to Billy's bond request?

I'm still not sure, but it made me realize that Billy was likely living with Fred and that means he was probably using her computer, at least using her router.

Point is, I wouldn't be surprised if they have found searches and purchases that would tie Billy into the murders.

We know he was part of the texts and phone calls between the 4 of them, and part of the incriminating calls GW4 made.

8,000 total recordings and texts. So they could have some very incriminating conversations from him.

You bring up a very good point. The maglite silencer was in the well and casings were on and buried in the ground at 260 Peterson Rd. and Angela, GW4 and Jake are tied into that because they lived there.

The big question is, did Billy ever live there? And if so, when?
Click to expand...

If he lived there, maybe it could have been related to questions around if he was home all night?
It's hard to say what specific question(s) she anticipated she would be asked, but it clearly shows at a minimum she weighed her options around lying about something the night before her testimony to the grand jury.

As for where he lived, I have wondered if it was with his mother or on Bethel Hill Rd. Maybe Angela and the boys were the only 3 that moved from Bethel to Peterson. I have no idea, and it's only speculation on my part.
 
Tiff23fr said:
If he lived there, maybe it could have been related to questions around if he was home all night?
It's hard to say what specific question(s) she anticipated she would be asked, but it clearly shows at a minimum she weighed her options around lying about something the night before her testimony to the grand jury.

As for where he lived, I have wondered if it was with his mother or on Bethel Hill Rd. Maybe Angela and the boys were the only 3 that moved from Bethel to Peterson. I have no idea, and it's only speculation on my part.
Click to expand...
I thought the Bethel Rd. trailer burned down. I know a trailer burned down but can't remember the details.

So if that was the case then Billy either went to Peterson or FWFs.

You mention questions about Billy being home all night.

So this brings up something interesting. It was said at Billy's bond hearing that Billy was staying the night on Peterson Rd, as opposed to staying that night with Fred which is where I think he was living.

It was said that Billy was not living with Jake and GW4.

So why would Billy just happen to stay on Peterson Rd. on the night of the murders?

Why not stay where he was living, with Fred? (My opinion he lived with Fred).

Why not leave Fred's, commit the murders, then go back to Freds?

Because he didn't want Fred or Robin to see he was gone. (If Robin lives there).

To have to get them both to lie for him was too complicated so he had to say he was staying on Peterson Rd which is circumstantial evidence.

So Billy was able to tell Fred he stayed all night over with Angie and that's why Fred told the press:

"None of us was anywhere near that place that night."

Billy couldn't count on Fred and maybe Robin to be his alibi, which is what they would be if they said he was sleeping in his old bedroom at FWFs all night.

But very interesting that he did seem to count on her to lie to the GJ for him, why else was she looking up the night before her GJ testimony how to lie to a GJ? Plus Billy was living with her at that time and likely was involved with her search, or he himself did the searching.

2 cents only
 
With none of the relatives showing up for support to the Wagners makes us all think that the family of the Wagners know their guilty, and whoever that woman is that says Fredericka is her aunt on IHart podcast and tells more lies of how good those 4 Wagners are, she is just trying to taunt a jury pool, she is so full of crap that I can smell her in Ky, JMO
One thing for sure we know Chris Newcomb has told the BCI information that has helped keep GW4 in jail, JMO
 
Loomis124 said:
Most of us use certain "general" words with locations sometimes, such as, "Wanna come over?" "Why don't you come up this weekend?" "Don't come DOWN here now, we have company." (Latter is what GW4 told GW3 on the phone, according to Scheiderer.)

Would 260 Peterson Rd. be "down" from BBL? Thanks.

JMO
Click to expand...

It might be "down" from Flying W Farm, which sits on one of the higher hills in the area.
 
Cool Cats said:
I thought the Bethel Rd. trailer burned down. I know a trailer burned down but can't remember the details.

So if that was the case then Billy either went to Peterson or FWFs.

You mention questions about Billy being home all night.

So this brings up something interesting. It was said at Billy's bond hearing that Billy was staying the night on Peterson Rd, as opposed to staying that night with Fred which is where I think he was living.

It was said that Billy was not living with Jake and GW4.

So why would Billy just happen to stay on Peterson Rd. on the night of the murders?

Why not stay where he was living, with Fred? (My opinion he lived with Fred).

Why not leave Fred's, commit the murders, then go back to Freds?

Because he didn't want Fred or Robin to see he was gone. (If Robin lives there).

To have to get them both to lie for him was too complicated so he had to say he was staying on Peterson Rd which is circumstantial evidence.

So Billy was able to tell Fred he stayed all night over with Angie and that's why Fred told the press:

"None of us was anywhere near that place that night."

Billy couldn't count on Fred and maybe Robin to be his alibi, which is what they would be if they said he was sleeping in his old bedroom at FWFs all night.

But very interesting that he did seem to count on her to lie to the GJ for him, why else was she looking up the night before her GJ testimony how to lie to a GJ? Plus Billy was living with her at that time and likely was involved with her search, or he himself did the searching.

2 cents only
Click to expand...

Just thinking, BCI and others must have known Billy was staying at Flying W Farms. All the evidence photos for the search for the BPV and other items were in what's believed to be the bathroom adjoining Billy's room. Recall the bathroom with the bad tile job and sauna heater?

They may have been tracking Billy, knew he was there and knew where to look.
 
Loomis124 said:
Something just dawned on me. BW's Discovery (see p.16 on Media & Timeline):

Billy Wagner's Cell Tower Records
March 2016 (1 page)
April 2016 (1 page)
Big Bear Lake (1 excel spreadsheet)

Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)

IMO, BW was living at Big Bear Lake in March and April, thus the 519 custody messages under HIS cell tower records.

Wow.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
If they were text messages or e-mail type messages, They could have anyone added to the address list and would get all messages. In fact,I would wager that is how JW monitored Hanna's messaging. All he had to do was get hold of her cell for a couple of minutes and he could have every thing she did bcc (Blind Carbon Copy) to him and the family. MOO
 
Betty P said:
It might be "down" from Flying W Farm, which sits on one of the higher hills in the area.
Click to expand...
Jmo if you south on st rt 104 (a main road) you go past the road big bear lake is on. In order to go to Lucasville from Wagner’s you more than likely go past the road that big bear lake is on. The lake is very close to st rt 104. Or you can go down big bear to get to Lucasville from Wagner’s farm. Jmo I am sure my phone pings the tower near BBL a lot
 
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Cool Cats said:
I thought the Bethel Rd. trailer burned down. I know a trailer burned down but can't remember the details.

So if that was the case then Billy either went to Peterson or FWFs.

You mention questions about Billy being home all night.

So this brings up something interesting. It was said at Billy's bond hearing that Billy was staying the night on Peterson Rd, as opposed to staying that night with Fred which is where I think he was living.

It was said that Billy was not living with Jake and GW4.

So why would Billy just happen to stay on Peterson Rd. on the night of the murders?

Why not stay where he was living, with Fred? (My opinion he lived with Fred).

Why not leave Fred's, commit the murders, then go back to Freds?

Because he didn't want Fred or Robin to see he was gone. (If Robin lives there).

To have to get them both to lie for him was too complicated so he had to say he was staying on Peterson Rd which is circumstantial evidence.

So Billy was able to tell Fred he stayed all night over with Angie and that's why Fred told the press:

"None of us was anywhere near that place that night."

Billy couldn't count on Fred and maybe Robin to be his alibi, which is what they would be if they said he was sleeping in his old bedroom at FWFs all night.

But very interesting that he did seem to count on her to lie to the GJ for him, why else was she looking up the night before her GJ testimony how to lie to a GJ? Plus Billy was living with her at that time and likely was involved with her search, or he himself did the searching.

2 cents only
Click to expand...

I believe it did burn down. Given it was searched I was thinking a camper or trailer or something could have been there. However it could have just been a land/pond search. It's likely accurate as you state he lived with his mother.

Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how it is presented since he didn't live at Peterson (At least in the time just prior to the murders).

It will be interesting to see how the evidence continues to weigh on "doing everything together" as this goes forward. I feel Billy not living with the other 3 shows a divide. That's all I had in mind.

In case it needs stated: not questioning the charges or accused in this line of thinking. Just wondering how it might be argued by the defense.
 
@OhioBlues I want to congratulate you on your new responsibilities being a moderator, it takes a special person to do it. Also alot of commitment and hard work! Not alot of thanks either from my understanding.

I respect you as a moderator.
You have been on the Rhoden thread a long time, certainly alot longer than me.

Looking forward to your posts on the Pre-trials and Trials of the 4 Wagners and Rita also. I think she will testify in the 4 trials. Opinion only.

Take care Ohio!..;):)
 
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