OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

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DNA? They might not have any DNA on the other 3 as well.

But remember, didn't we talk about George wanting to please his father, get his approval and act all tough around him? And that Jake is the mommas boy controlled by Angela who wouldn't let him speak alone to the media, she was always right there steering the conversation.

In other words yes George had always had more to lose but then again if his dad was all on board with it then George had something to prove to dad.

And that's peculiar because it looks like Billy is the one who would have the best chance at a deal. Canepa said George admitted to living at the Peterson Rd. house where the highly incriminating matching shell casings were found but she also said Billy was not living there.

It is Jake and George's footprints that were found in blood not Billys. Unless Billy wore one of those pairs, but Angela said she specifically bought them for Jake and George.

Some of George's incriminating statements as shared by Scheiderer and Canepa:

Don't come down here we have company.
If they have the gun they have the silencer.
I told you to get rid of your phone.
We have a family emergency.
Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
I want to bash Scheiderer's face in.
Make Reader pay make DeWine pay - violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
Making fun of Jake's religion many times.
We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
I bought a night scope to hunt raccoons it's legal.
I got a Captain America mask.

Also, he fought with Tabitha to the point Angie threatened to kill her and she ran for her life. Then he took custody away from her and took her son away to Alaska.
When she asked for more visitation in the fall of 2018 he demanded she get a psychiatric evaluation.

He wanted to kill/seek revenge on LE and break family out of jail and smash in Scheiderer's face. He didn't care about Hanna being with her daughter anymore than he cared about his EX being with her son.

Point? He has anger/revenge issues that could fold into helping Jake get sole custody...He is mean enough, shifty with a death stare in court:

https://static-22.sinclairstoryline...537-816531fe1aaf-1128GeorgeWagnerIVCourt3.jpg

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R8cb9d94f54dd4dfe5a6f19f87cf9daaa?rik=CQknKHil+84d+g&riu=http://static-20.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/ac10e054-a675-49cb-bc22-9a253a8b2e6a-large16x9_gmcgeorgewagner7.24.PNG?1563996793775&ehk=NgI34iSD+IofxriX8ItkVcyb8PI+vlewl4vFVYROsCM=&risl=&pid=ImgRaw

The only deal he would get is the DP taken off the table, life in general population instead of life in solitary waiting for .....
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An old friend of mine used to say "talk's cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey." I think G4 is all talk. But as I said I can be wrong. There is no doubt he wanted to please Billy. But he didn't like Jake much at all. Angie was all in. Keep in mind she threatened to kill G4's wife and the wife took it so serious she hid in the woods all night. There had to be something in Angie that struck more fear in the wife than G4, her husband, did. Usually the wife is afraid of her husband not her husbands mother. Like I said, Angie and Jake have the look of sociopaths, and the actions of the ex wife confirms there was something very scary about Angie. The only way we will know for sure is after we see all the evidence in a trial.

JMO
 
Feels like old times.....

Old fashioned, I heard that before!

I will credit you a point on something... the women's shoes in evidence.

Angie bought shoes for the "boys" and apparently they wore them that night so we know she was all concerned about shoes.

So why did she buy these shoes for herself? I mean if she wasn't going anywhere?

Original S.W.A.T. women's 9 inch side-zip military boots (6 pp)
Women's Georgia Boot G31 (6pp)

What on earth was she planning on doing that would require military style S.W.A.T. boots? Was she that controlling that she actually wanted to go along?

Canepa said the Wagners were obsessed with dying because the Rhodens had weapons and would fight back if the Wagner's were detected. So Angie made sure to make fake custody documents giving her custody of both kids in the event of that happening - the Rhodens fighting back and killing them.

So does this mean she would be more likely to go along to make sure they didn't get killed?

Or does this mean it is more likely she stayed behind so she could be sure not to get killed, thus get custody?

Credit me a point on this.
Well there is the shoes so she had something planned in regard to them. I think Jake and Billy wore the other shoes. Nothing says Billy and G4 doesn't wear the same size shoes. A weird thing here, my hubby, son and 2 grandsons all wear the exact same size shoes but not the exact same size clothes. So JMO based off my life experience.
 
Feels like old times.....

Old fashioned, I heard that before!

I will credit you a point on something... the women's shoes in evidence.

Angie bought shoes for the "boys" and apparently they wore them that night so we know she was all concerned about shoes.

So why did she buy these shoes for herself? I mean if she wasn't going anywhere?

Original S.W.A.T. women's 9 inch side-zip military boots (6 pp)
Women's Georgia Boot G31 (6pp)

What on earth was she planning on doing that would require military style S.W.A.T. boots? Was she that controlling that she actually wanted to go along?

Canepa said the Wagners were obsessed with dying because the Rhodens had weapons and would fight back if the Wagner's were detected. So Angie made sure to make fake custody documents giving her custody of both kids in the event of that happening - the Rhodens fighting back and killing them.

So does this mean she would be more likely to go along to make sure they didn't get killed?

Or does this mean it is more likely she stayed behind so she could be sure not to get killed, thus get custody?

Credit me a point on this.
I will credit you a point on the custody documents. But did you ever think what would happen if G4, Jake and Angie were killed along with all the R's? With documents giving custody to Angie and her and the two boys being dead custody of both kids would have went to her mother Rita whos notary seal was on the forged documents. That all may have been an attempt by Angie to make sure that if her and the boys didn't make it out alive her mother and not Fred or Billy or the R's or M's got the kids. Something to think about huh? If the boys and her were killed it would have been hard to determine who died first and that would have meant Rita got both kids by default with that signed custody document. JMO

To clarify, Angie had a document giving her custody in case the boys died, but if she died too Rita as her next of kin would have had a better claim as custody would have went from George and Hanna to Angie then her next of kin would have had a better case than anyone else. JMO
 
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An old friend of mine used to say "talk's cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey." I think G4 is all talk. But as I said I can be wrong. There is no doubt he wanted to please Billy. But he didn't like Jake much at all. Angie was all in. Keep in mind she threatened to kill G4's wife and the wife took it so serious she hid in the woods all night. There had to be something in Angie that struck more fear in the wife than G4, her husband, did. Usually the wife is afraid of her husband not her husbands mother. Like I said, Angie and Jake have the look of sociopaths, and the actions of the ex wife confirms there was something very scary about Angie. The only way we will know for sure is after we see all the evidence in a trial.

JMO
BBM

Thanks for your opinions. With Angie I think you are spot-on!

You say:
"there was something very scary about Angie."

I can only imagine how onerous - oppressively burdensome - being on house arrest for a year would be. I'm talking about Rita and all she went through. She chose to do her house arrest at her mother's house and her son had to care for her animals. She wasn't allowed to go back and forth between the 2 residences last I remember from a Motion.

Can you imagine deliberately staying on house arrest like that when you don't have to? When you can admit the lie and prove your innocence? So why choose house arrest?

This was Rita's predicament. She knew it was all a lie that she forged custody
documents, she knew by telling the truth she could get her freedom back. So what happened?

Angie happened. I think Rita was scared of her and afraid of making her angry by saying "no" to her demand. The demand that put Rita's freedom and reputation in jeopardy but would make things "go better" for Angela.

You say:
"There had to be something in Angie that struck more fear in the wife than G4, her husband, did."

Yah, Angie is the one who threatened to kill her. Scheiderer did not say it was George. Normally when someone says they are going to "kill" you it's just a figure of speech, they do not mean it and you know they don't mean it.

George's wife seemed to sense otherwise, something dangerous with Angie or she wouldn't have hidden out on the property until night then snuck off on a bike to a gas station, never to live with Angie again.

Then imagine having a MIL who prints out and forges custody documents saying if her son dies she gets custody of your child not you. Its like she's planning that you will be "out of the picture."

Angie's own mother and her daughter-in-law seemed to see something scary in Angie, something to fear about her.
 
Well there is the shoes so she had something planned in regard to them. I think Jake and Billy wore the other shoes. Nothing says Billy and G4 doesn't wear the same size shoes. A weird thing here, my hubby, son and 2 grandsons all wear the exact same size shoes but not the exact same size clothes. So JMO based off my life experience.

Billy wearing the shoes? Humm.....But Angela's statement to BCI at the Montana-Canadian boarder, that she bought the shoes for George and Jake, will be what the Jury hears. To me, that will make it sound like George wore them.

I think that the defense attorneys are using this Motion #50 .....

#50 DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF

..... to try and get Angela's shoe statement thrown out, keeping it away from the Jury. All the Wagners are non-testifying co-defendants who made many statements to BCI. The shoe statement from Angela directly contradicts Jake and George's statement that they never saw the shoes and know nothing about them. I bet there are other statements where the Wagner's contradict each other, try as they might to stick to the same story...2 Cents...
I will credit you a point on the custody documents. But did you ever think what would happen if G4, Jake and Angie were killed along with all the R's? With documents giving custody to Angie and her and the two boys being dead custody of both kids would have went to her mother Rita whos notary seal was on the forged documents. That all may have been an attempt by Angie to make sure that if her and the boys didn't make it out alive her mother and not Fred or Billy or the R's or M's got the kids. Something to think about huh? If the boys and her were killed it would have been hard to determine who died first and that would have meant Rita got both kids by default with that signed custody document. JMO

To clarify, Angie had a document giving her custody in case the boys died, but if she died too Rita as her next of kin would have had a better claim as custody would have went from George and Hanna to Angie then her next of kin would have had a better case than anyone else. JMO
I don't think Angie was thinking that far ahead - as to who gets custody if she herself were killed, but that is an interesting theory.

If Angie is a sociopath - can kill and threaten to kill without having a conscience to bother her - then I don't think her motive for wanting both kids was just to be a good grandma. I think her "boys" not only always lived with her but also have always helped support her financially, especially when Billy moved out.

I think one reason she was psychotic over gaining custody, if her "boys" were killed, is because without her sons to help support her she would need the 2 children to help her survive. There is zero evidence that she had a job after she stopped selling animals through the Wagner Defiance Farms Facebook.

The children would receive some type of State benefits through child welfare or social security etc... Enough to keep her going along with selling animals. When Billy moved out his disability check went with him. Many posters have said that they think Billy was the one who got that small disability check...2 Cents...
 
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If Angie is a sociopath - can kill and threaten to kill without having a conscience to bother her - then I don't think her motive for wanting both kids was just to be a good grandma. I think her "boys" not only always lived with her but also have always helped support her financially, especially when Billy moved out.

I think one reason she was psychotic over gaining custody, if her "boys" were killed, is because without her sons to help support her she would need the 2 children to help her survive. There is zero evidence that she had a job after she stopped selling animals through the Wagner Defiance Farms Facebook.

The children would receive some type of State benefits through child welfare or social security etc... Enough to keep her going along with selling animals. When Billy moved out his disability check went with him. Many posters have said that they think Billy was the one who got that small disability check...2 Cents...

BBM
ITA - she needed money.

Clearly I don't think Billy planned to share any of his inheritance with Angie. I'm guessing Fred's estate included her blood descendants only, her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. In other words, Billy, their two boys and their two grandchildren. Angie is the odd man out - no blood relation.

Certainly I think until S and B turned 18/21, Angie would receive a living allowance for them.

The only way she could get back "in" on money would be if her grandchildren "supported" her out of their trusts/inheritance, when they turned 18/21 and s & b had some control over their inheritances. So if Angie raises them, cuts off most of their access to the outside world (formal schooling and religion) for the next 10-15 years, she would be the biggest influence in their lives and forming their values. She convinces them they can't live without her. Doesn't every family pool their money?;) Once she raised S & B, they would likely support her and be controlled by her for the rest of their life. I think Angie has shown time and time again she does like to micromanage and control things.

I wouldn't be surprised if some changes were also made to Gvi and Jake's will, so that Angie would get some $ of that.

Follow the Money.........

IANAL - I use the ages of 18/21 for example only.

JMO
ETA- correct Gvi to GWWiv and for grammar
 
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BBM
ITA - she needed money.

Clearly I don't think Billy planned to share any of his inheritance with Angie. I'm guessing Fred's estate included her blood descendants only, her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. In other words, Billy, their two boys and their two grandchildren. Angie is the odd man out - no blood relation.

Certainly I think until S and B turned 18/21, Angie would receive a living allowance for them.

The only way she could get back "in" on money would be if her grandchildren "supported" her out of their trusts/inheritance, when they turned 18/21 and s & b had some control over their inheritances. So if Angie raises them, cuts off most of their access to the outside world (formal schooling and religion) for the next 10-15 years, she would be the biggest influence in their lives and forming their values. She convinces them they can't live without her. Doesn't every family pool their money?;) Once she raised S & B, they would likely support her and be controlled by her for the rest of their life. I think Angie has shown time and time again she does like to micromanage and control things.

I wouldn't be surprised if some changes were also made to Gvi and Jake's will, so that Angie would get some $ of that.

Follow the Money.........

IANAL - I use the ages of 18/21 for example only.

JMO
ETA- correct Gvi to GWWiv and for grammar

Thanks Puzzles, I thought I was the only one seeing a money angle. I thought about the Wills also. If Jake and George have Wills, regardless of the year they were drawn up, I am sure Angie's name is on them.

Yes Angie would have raised the grandchildren as she raised her "boys" if she had full custody, but actually I believe she was already helping them to be raised that way when first one then both grandchildren were living with her.
424FE4E800000578-4683690-image-a-2_1500034235472.jpg

When my son was engaged he and his fiance lived with us for a while. At one point they had an argument and some problems and my first instinct was "oh my God I don't want them to break up, is there anything I can do?" But I knew enough to stay out of it and it all blew over, like those things do.

Note when George and wife were fighting Angie used that opportunity to insert herself on George's side and go after his wife threatening to kill her. If I did this with my soon to be DIL my family would think there was something seriously wrong with me. Like I'm some type of psyco.

Angie got rid of George's wife and never tried to get them back together. She could have actually helped them reconcile.

Angie is just evil and was going after the next generation, her grandkids, just like she did with her sons. Have them live with her full time, control them full time, and to eventually have them support her through any means possible.

What happened is she is not smart. Not bright. She had 100% success getting her way with her "boys" and with her grandson so she just thought she could walk in and do the same with her granddaughter. She was cocky, she was entitled, arrogant, a control freak who always batted 1000 getting her way.

Only not being smart enough she over played her hand, went too far, and now she has been sitting in jail for 2 years and 3 months cut off from the family she controlled, eating high carb dull meals, not able to communicate with anyone by mail or phone, shackled and put into stun vests and wearing prison scrubs.
db5cf562-cf52-4dab-bb3f-7244671ab5cf-_40A3496.jpg

That's the price she pays for the 2 1/2 years she had her sons and grandchildren all to herself. April 2016 - November 2018.
 
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Billy wearing the shoes? Humm.....But Angela's statement to BCI at the Montana-Canadian boarder, that she bought the shoes for George and Jake, will be what the Jury hears. To me, that will make it sound like George wore them.

I think that the defense attorneys are using this Motion #50 .....

#50 DEFENDANT'S MOTION IN LIMINE REQUESTING A PRETRIAL EVIDENTIARY HEARING TO DETERMINE THE ADMISSIBILITY OF ANY NON-TESTIFYING CO-DEFENDANT STATEMENTS THE STATE INTENDS TO PRESENT IN ITS CASE IN CHIEF

..... to try and get Angela's shoe statement thrown out, keeping it away from the Jury. All the Wagners are non-testifying co-defendants who made many statements to BCI. The shoe statement from Angela directly contradicts Jake and George's statement that they never saw the shoes and know nothing about them. I bet there are other statements where the Wagner's contradict each other, try as they might to stick to the same story...2 Cents...

I don't think Angie was thinking that far ahead - as to who gets custody if she herself were killed, but that is an interesting theory.

If Angie is a sociopath - can kill and threaten to kill without having a conscience to bother her - then I don't think her motive for wanting both kids was just to be a good grandma. I think her "boys" not only always lived with her but also have always helped support her financially, especially when Billy moved out.

I think one reason she was psychotic over gaining custody, if her "boys" were killed, is because without her sons to help support her she would need the 2 children to help her survive. There is zero evidence that she had a job after she stopped selling animals through the Wagner Defiance Farms Facebook.

The children would receive some type of State benefits through child welfare or social security etc... Enough to keep her going along with selling animals. When Billy moved out his disability check went with him. Many posters have said that they think Billy was the one who got that small disability check...2 Cents...

BBM
If Angie is a sociopath - can kill and threaten to kill without having a conscience to bother her -

We have agreed that Angie is a text book Sociopath right? So having no conscience what makes anyone think she meant to let those two kids live if she did happen to get custody of them? You know you can buy a hundred grand of life insurance on a child under 10 for about 15.00 a month? You can buy a million of accidental insurance on a kid for about 6 dollars a month. How do I know that? I have policies on my grandkids under 15 and great grands under 10. There are many women who have killed their own kids for life insurance money let alone their grandkids. Who says Jake is not the same mindset as Angie? Something to think about on a cold snow day huh? I think G4's wife was correct to run like heck and my opinion is G4 should have taken his son and ran with her. Could even be the reason Billy cut a path to his mother's house. Who knows how much life insurance she had on him? Just something to think about while it's snowing lol. JMO.
 
BBM

Thanks for your opinions. With Angie I think you are spot-on!

You say:
"there was something very scary about Angie."

I can only imagine how onerous - oppressively burdensome - being on house arrest for a year would be. I'm talking about Rita and all she went through. She chose to do her house arrest at her mother's house and her son had to care for her animals. She wasn't allowed to go back and forth between the 2 residences last I remember from a Motion.

Can you imagine deliberately staying on house arrest like that when you don't have to? When you can admit the lie and prove your innocence? So why choose house arrest?

This was Rita's predicament. She knew it was all a lie that she forged custody
documents, she knew by telling the truth she could get her freedom back. So what happened?

Angie happened. I think Rita was scared of her and afraid of making her angry by saying "no" to her demand. The demand that put Rita's freedom and reputation in jeopardy but would make things "go better" for Angela.

You say:
"There had to be something in Angie that struck more fear in the wife than G4, her husband, did."

Yah, Angie is the one who threatened to kill her. Scheiderer did not say it was George. Normally when someone says they are going to "kill" you it's just a figure of speech, they do not mean it and you know they don't mean it.

George's wife seemed to sense otherwise, something dangerous with Angie or she wouldn't have hidden out on the property until night then snuck off on a bike to a gas station, never to live with Angie again.

Then imagine having a MIL who prints out and forges custody documents saying if her son dies she gets custody of your child not you. Its like she's planning that you will be "out of the picture."

Angie's own mother and her daughter-in-law seemed to see something scary in Angie, something to fear about her.

Yah, Angie is the one who threatened to kill her

Yes but isn't always the ex that threatens to kill? Very rare a woman would be so afraid of her MIL, but not her husband. JMO
 
Yah, Angie is the one who threatened to kill her

Yes but isn't always the ex that threatens to kill? Very rare a woman would be so afraid of her MIL, but not her husband. JMO
I tend to believe Angie aggressively ran off all of her DIL's so that she would be the Queen Bee (Alpha) of the pack. They were just in the way of her control. I'm sure she didn't want to share any potential inherited money with them either.

JMO
 
Yah, Angie is the one who threatened to kill her

Yes but isn't always the ex that threatens to kill? Very rare a woman would be so afraid of her MIL, but not her husband. JMO

I think that alot built up over time to that day the EX wife left for good, as is how it usually is with domestic violence/abuse.

I think the EX will be called to the stand to testify to "OTHER ACTS" of George's. This is another thing the defense filed a motion on and wants thrown out.

I think George and Angela both made threats and were too much to handle because they stood together. I think at his trial it will come out how George treated his wife.
And I don't think it will look good...at all. Scheiderer's testimony - of the day she left - was just the tip of the iceberg I believe.
 
BBM
If Angie is a sociopath - can kill and threaten to kill without having a conscience to bother her -

We have agreed that Angie is a text book Sociopath right? So having no conscience what makes anyone think she meant to let those two kids live if she did happen to get custody of them? You know you can buy a hundred grand of life insurance on a child under 10 for about 15.00 a month? You can buy a million of accidental insurance on a kid for about 6 dollars a month. How do I know that? I have policies on my grandkids under 15 and great grands under 10. There are many women who have killed their own kids for life insurance money let alone their grandkids. Who says Jake is not the same mindset as Angie? Something to think about on a cold snow day huh? I think G4's wife was correct to run like heck and my opinion is G4 should have taken his son and ran with her. Could even be the reason Billy cut a path to his mother's house. Who knows how much life insurance she had on him? Just something to think about while it's snowing lol. JMO.

I think her grandkids and kids were worth more to her alive than dead.

Now Billy? That's conceivable. That she had life insurance on him and would think she was better off with him dead than alive. Certainly a good reason for him to move out to the safety of FWF.

But if he had life insurance on himself with Angie as the beneficiary, I'm sure Fred had him change it to other family members before he moved back in with her when they went to AK.


3 bed • 2bath • 3,014sqft • 3.9acre lot
• 53233 Melody Ln, Kenai, AK, 99611
6184348-6389679-image-a-19_1542217530810.jpg


I don't think it was only about money with Angie, she craved total control. You can't have control when there is no one to control. She needed family to live with her.

Her dream came true when she had the 4 of them living with her. Also, despite not living with him her relationship with Billy may have been friendly, otherwise I don't see how they could have lived together in AK.

Family accused of Ohio massacre spent months living quietly in an Alaska mobile home
Anchorage Alaska Daily News
 
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I think her grandkids and kids were worth more to her alive than dead.

Now Billy? That's conceivable. That she had life insurance on him and would think she was better off with him dead than alive. Certainly a good reason for him to move out to the safety of FWF.

But if he had life insurance on himself with Angie as the beneficiary, I'm sure Fred had him change it to other family members before he moved back in with her when they went to AK.


3 bed • 2bath • 3,014sqft • 3.9acre lot
• 53233 Melody Ln, Kenai, AK, 99611
6184348-6389679-image-a-19_1542217530810.jpg


I don't think it was only about money with Angie, she craved total control. You can't have control when there is no one to control. She needed family to live with her.

Her dream came true when she had the 4 of them living with her. Also, despite not living with him her relationship with Billy may have been friendly, otherwise I don't see how they could have lived together in AK.

Family accused of Ohio massacre spent months living quietly in an Alaska mobile home
Anchorage Alaska Daily News


IMO it's always about the money. JMO
 
IMO it's always about the money. JMO

Yup. An intense need for financial security at any cost.

The money being that the sons go to work and support her while her job is to stay home and take care of their children while also benefiting from money and inheritance the children receive.

Providing 24/7 childcare, especially when the sons go over-the-road on long haul trucking jobs, made her indispensable and was sure to keep the sons living with her.

Think how much anxiety you would have being 50 and living alone with no retirement, no health insurance, no partner to share expenses with, no guarantee of getting any inheritance from your rich MIL, no career and no real useful employment skills.
1140-no-nest-egg.imgcache.rev.web.1053.600.jpg

No Nest Egg?

...2 Cents...
 
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I tend to believe Angie aggressively ran off all of her DIL's so that she would be the Queen Bee (Alpha) of the pack. They were just in the way of her control. I'm sure she didn't want to share any potential inherited money with them either.

JMO

Imagine the arguments between Angie and Fredericka.. one a matriarch the other power hungry for that status.
 
Imagine the arguments between Angie and Fredericka.. one a matriarch the other power hungry for that status.

I know this but consider it opinion since it's not apart of MSM.

Here is what used to happen alot.

Angie was involved with selling dogs and horses for FWF.

So Angie would tell a buyer a price and then Angie would contact Fred and Fred was always pissed off at the price Angie offered.

Fred wanted a higher price. Fred would tell her to tell the buyer that the animal was a more premium-top pure bred type and worth more than the price Angie quoted.

So when I saw that Angie developed her OWN Defiance farms aninals to sell I wasn't surprised.

What I want to know is why did Angie abandon her Defiance Farms after the murders. She had a good thing going with her farm business.
 
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