GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

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ohioexpat63

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Everything22,
No point being argumentative over another's point of view.

8 murders and 4 Ws in the know will spend LWOP, in a miserable hell. Not one of the 4 stopped it. It would have taken one brave person to say this is dumb. One person to break the link in the chain. The Ws planned the murders for months and all 4 contributed. The results of their planning is all I need to know the 4 were in cahoots all the way.

The time for manning up was before the murders.

No post mortems, no do overs, no changing of the narrative, no I didnt agree with the murders but kept quiet and didnt intervene with authorities and definitely no second chances at freedom. LWOP in a miserable hell on earth is as lenient as they deserve.
 
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NWLady

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You're not off at all. It totally makes sense. FW, IMO, didn't take a shine to AW...ever. She also wasn't going to let AW get control of anything she left to her son or grandson's through attrition.

It shows how invested AW was in having control. Control of kids and the money her kids and/or grandkids would come to inherit from FW that she didn't destroy those custody documents it seems she herself forged and notarized. To me the only explanation, after being repeatedly questioned and according to her attorney harrassed by LE, is she was pathologically dwelling in her own world of self-grandeur thinking nothing will stop me. AJMO
Several months ago my thoughts were that if any one of the 4 talked, that it would be AW because she was the oddball out - I figured FW would be more likely to favor/support/put money on the books/commissary for her son and 2 grandsons before she would AW (especially since it's been noted that her and Billy were not living together at the time of the murders). And at that same time several months ago, I also felt that if any of them talked that JW would be the least likely. And now, obviously, was I ever wrong on those things! I do agree with OP's that JW feels no remorse for what he has done. Nope, nada.

This is all JMO.
 

Gibbo214

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Several months ago my thoughts were that if any one of the 4 talked, that it would be AW because she was the oddball out - I figured FW would be more likely to favor/support/put money on the books/commissary for her son and 2 grandsons before she would AW (especially since it's been noted that her and Billy were not living together at the time of the murders). And at that same time several months ago, I also felt that if any of them talked that JW would be the least likely. And now, obviously, was I ever wrong on those things! I do agree with OP's that JW feels no remorse for what he has done. Nope, nada.

This is all JMO.
I too, agree that he feels no remorse. He feels he has his revenge for a young woman whom he groomed as a child, for rejecting him. He is without a soul. He has ruined his and his silly family, who went along with him's lives and his daughter will never know her mother's touch again. No one on this earth will ever love those two little girls like their mother would.
He may be pleased with his revenge, but he has a long life ahead of him to revel in it.
 

molly1255

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Fair enough. Thanks for the info
h

Ohio,

I also think they were all perfectly fine with committing murder. <modsnip> The W's made some mistakes because they aren't as smart as they thought they were, but IMO, they were organized.

What makes a person ok with going along with murder? I think having no conscience is a very good start. I think having no regard for the rights or feelings of others (no empathy) would also need to be involved. Throw in an exaggerated sense of entitlement and a need for revenge and a need to win. They each knew the difference between right and wrong and doing the right thing was not even on their radar. Their own actions prove they knew there would be consequences if they were caught. They each lied to LE. Very deliberate, calculated lies to try to avoid detection.

I think we'd all like to think they will spend their lives in prison, eaten up by guilt. Sadly, I don't think they feel guilty, just sorry for themselves that they got caught. Perhaps angry at each other, and at Jake for copping a plea. I think there's also probably a lot of anger at LE.

All JMO
 
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molly1255

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Everything22,
No point being argumentative over another's point of view.

8 murders and 4 Ws in the know will spend LWOP, in a miserable hell. Not one of the 4 stopped it. It would have taken one brave person to say this is dumb. One person to break the link in the chain. The Ws planned the murders for months and all 4 contributed. The results of their planning is all I need to know the 4 were in cahoots all the way.

The time for manning up was before the murders.

No post mortems, no do overs, no changing of the narrative, no I didnt agree with the murders but kept quiet and didnt intervene with authorities and definitely no second chances at freedom. LWOP in a miserable hell on earth is as lenient as they deserve.

I agree and also, not one person who seemed to question whether they'd be able to ever live with themselves if they participated in the murders of eight innocent people and leave babies and a toddler without a parent or parents. It is hard to fathom.
 

Berrybell

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I think it assumes a lot to think they were all OK with murdering them. People do things they don't like all the time. That said, there are examples of American families that killed together, particularly in thr Midwest in the 1880s and there is a psychological concept of Folie a Deux that could be playing a role.

Folder a Deux
Shared Psychotic Disorder - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf.

Bloody Benders
Bloody Benders - Wikipedia
I respectfully disagree, looking at the evidence we've seen to date shows a complete dedication to the executions' by all four Wagners.
 

GoBuckeyes

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That's my question. Please go back and read the ends of Discovery 4-28-2021. Attorneys received Discovery "after" it was provided to the "defendants," dates recorded in the last paragraphs of the Discovery for all four defendants. If you need to, go back and compare to previous Discovery documents. Not the norm at all. MOO.

Outside of it not being the norm, in your opinion, what is its significance? TIA
 

ohioexpat63

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I do believe the results AC and the entire investigative team has provided, speaks to their dogged determination, dedication and professionalism from the outset. No leaks attributed to anonymous sources is virtually unheard of in today's digital age.
 

Cool Cats

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I do believe the results AC and the entire investigative team has provided, speaks to their dogged determination, dedication and professionalism from the outset. No leaks attributed to anonymous sources is virtually unheard of in today's digital age.

I think Canepa is sharper and more calculating than we can see and knew from the beginning that dragging it out for 2+ years would get one of them to plea.

I think from the beginning she planned the timeline for maximum effect. I think she gave the Defense Attorneys the Discovery Evidence in the time frame she calculated.

The longer it drags out the more time the Defendant has to sit in a cell staring at 4 walls thinking about the stark reality of getting the DP.

The longer it drags out the more likely to get the Defendant to plea.

When playing the long game don't let the Defendant know that all this time you were holding the Aces. Finally he folds.
 
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Chelly

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I think Canepa is sharper and more calculating than we can see and knew from the beginning that dragging it out for 2+ years would get one of them to plea.

I think from the beginning she planned the timeline for maximum effect. I think she gave the Defense Attorneys the Discovery Evidence in the time frame she calculated.

The longer it drags out the more time the Defendant has to sit in a cell staring at 4 walls thinking about the stark reality of getting the DP.

The longer it drags out the more likely to get the Defendant to plea.

When playing the long game don't let the Defendant know that all this time you were holding the Aces. Finally he folds.
Interesting. It never occurred to me that for over-two-years, Canepa had strategized this outcome.
 

Cool Cats

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Interesting. It never occurred to me that for over-two-years, Canepa had strategized this outcome.

I think so anyway.

I also think the defense was part of the strategy. They, just like us only more so, knew they were all guilty. You can't even indict a death penalty case without super strong evidence, evidence that has to be stronger than that of a non-DP case.

George was scheduled for trial September 4th, 2019. Imagine if he had gone through with that trial he may have been found not guilty but his attorneys convinced him to waive his speedy trial for the 2nd time.

Had they not waived speedy trial but went through with it then Jake wouldn't be testifying against him at his trial plus it throws off the prosecution who then has to scramble to try to get everything together which is impossible to do.

Those defense attorneys are smart they knew that the longer George sat around the more likely someone would plea.

So just draw it out as long as possible with all kinds of excuses like giving prosecutors the wrong sized devices to download evidence on, complain you can't make head nor tails of the evidence unless you meet at BCI, call the ballistics and shoe print evidence inadmissible pseudoscience and ask for a Daubert hearing,

put in a time consuming motion to hire someone just to organize the evidence and then let the prosecution sort it all out, make sure your client keeps renewing his waiver for speedy trial, let other defendants go to trial first. Eventually someone will plea.


Then do the job you were hired to do which is to get your client out from under the DP. That's workable and no one can say you didn't accomplish anything for your client.

You didn't sign up to get your client off on 8 cold blooded aggravated murders with babies and a toddler who were left alone for 8 hours, the babies soaked in blood.

Nope, you need to sleep at night.

I think so anyway.
 
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Betty P

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Interesting. It never occurred to me that for over-two-years, Canepa had strategized this outcome.

Yes, she likely has. Maybe not every minute aspect, but she seems to have strategized the use of the evidence gathered in their investigation to its best advantage. It's probably been a team effort. DeWine was a prosecutor for many years, she worked with him on quite a few investigations before this.

The early strategy was keeping details of the crimes out of the news. Once arrested, they put all the defendants in separate jails and got the judge to issue a gag order. Also made sure the defendants couldn't talk to each other or anyone else about the case. Then they started doling out the evidence - more to defendants but less to the public.
They got RN to take a plea deal, which raised the pressure. They caught AW talking on the phone about defense strategy.

The pressure kept building.

ETA: I don't think GW4 would have gotten out. He has a LOT of very solid evidence against him. No one was going to let him out on the street when there's evidence of him buying parts for the silencers, his shoe prints at the crime scenes, record of his threats against others.
 
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molly1255

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I think so anyway.

I also think the defense was part of the strategy. They, just like us only more so, knew they were all guilty. You can't even indict a death penalty case without super strong evidence, evidence that has to be stronger than that of a
non-DP case.

George was scheduled for trial September 4th, 2019. Imagine if he had gone through with that trial he may have been found not guilty but his attorneys convinced him to waive his speedy trial for the 2nd time.

Had they not waived speedy trial but went through with it then Jake wouldn't be testifying against him at his trial plus it throws off the prosecution who then has to scramble to try to get everything together.

Those defense attorneys are smart they know that the longer George sat around the more likely someone would plea. It would have been better for George to not have waived speedy trial.

So what do you do when you know for sure you are representing a client who murdered 8 people in cold blood?

Well, you want him to be found guilty but on the other hand you are paid to defend him so nfow what?

Just draw it out with all kinds of excuses like giving prosecutors the wrong sized devices to download evidence on, complain you can't make head nor tails of the evidence unless you meet at BCI, put in a time consuming motion to hire someone just to organize the evidence and then let the prosecution sort it out, make sure your client keeps renewing his waiver for speedy trial.....

Then do the job you were hired to do which is to get your client out from under the DP. That's workable and no one can say you didn't accomplish anything for your client.

You didn't sign up to get your client off on 8 cold blooded aggravated murders with babies and toddlers who were left alone for 8 hours soaked in blood.

Nope, you need to sleep at night.

Interesting and good points! I agree, it may have been better for GW4 if he had not waived his right to a speedy trial. I imagine GW4 has thought about that. It was interesting to watch his most recent hearing. After it was over, his attorneys and GW4 stood up. GW4 had on a mask and he turned to the attorney on his left and it's hard to tell because he was wearing a mask, but his masked moved and I think (JMO) he said one word to the attorney on his left and then he walked away. That attorney had a very strange look on his face after that, and I'm not sure if he was nervous or if he was afraid. JMO.

When I was a kid, a family member of mine was a homicide detective. It's different than being a defense attorney on a murder case because the defense attorney is trying to help them. But in both occupations, they are dealing with the same kind of people. My relative worked on several cases that were conspiracies that involved multiple participants in the murder (s). He received death threats on numerous occasions and he had to move his family from place to place to hide.

In this case, the defense attorneys have been interacting with the W's for several years now. The DP was on the table and I imagine some of those interactions may have become contentious. I would never want that job, not for all the money in the world. If you are defending a murderer and that murderer is acquitted, they should feel gratitude, right? Not necessarily. My Dad used to say, with some people, if you want gratitude, you will need to look it up in the dictionary. I would NOT want to be interacting with murderers, giving them advice, trying to steer them in the right direction, all the while knowing you are not dealing with a normal person and fearing that if you ever rubbed them wrong, if they have the opportunity, they may one day rub you out.

All JMO.
 

Cool Cats

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  1. Interesting and good points! I agree, it may have been better for GW4 if he had not waived his right to a speedy trial. I imagine GW4 has thought about that. It was interesting to watch his most recent hearing. After it was over, his attorneys and GW4 stood up. GW4 had on a mask and he turned to the attorney on his left and it's hard to tell because he was wearing a mask, but his masked moved and I think (JMO) he said one word to the attorney on his left and then he walked away. That attorney had a very strange look on his face after that, and I'm not sure if he was nervous or if he was afraid. JMO.
When I was a kid, a family member of mine was a homicide detective. It's different than being a defense attorney on a murder case because the defense attorney is trying to help them. But in both occupations, they are dealing with the same kind of people. My relative worked on several cases that were conspiracies that involved multiple participants in the murder (s). He received death threats on numerous occasions and he had to move his family from place to place to hide.

In this case, the defense attorneys have been interacting with the W's for several years now. The DP was on the table and I imagine some of those interactions may have become contentious. I would never want that job, not for all the money in the world. If you are defending a murderer and that murderer is acquitted, they should feel gratitude, right? Not necessarily. My Dad used to say, with some people, if you want gratitude, you will need to look it up in the dictionary. I would NOT want to be interacting with murderers, giving them advice, trying to steer them in the right direction, all the while knowing you are not dealing with a normal person and fearing that if you ever rubbed them wrong, if they have the opportunity, they may one day rub you out.

All JMO.

How nice, go to defend your client and they thank you by cornering you in a dark alley waving a gun.

George seemed mad after his 2 motions were cancelled. One was to toss out evidence due to a violation and one was to depose a witness. Perhaps he did not agree to put off his motions but the attorneys over ruled him, Wagners don't allow anyone to "boss" them around.

Yes I noticed the strange look on his attorney's face when George was facing him. There was no conversation, his attorney didn't open his mouth, but you could be right that George said something. That would be a bit stupid if George said something intimidating to his attorney.

His other attorney was shuffling papers when George just turned around and walked out. That attorney seemed surprised when he turned his head and George wasn't there. He turned around looking for him then saw him leaving with his contingent of LE.

Interesting about your relative diving into the dark side then being followed, wow.

Yes defense attorneys get pared with unseemly characters and the Wagners are the most horrid of them all. Worst of the worst. I suppose they get used to it like EMTs and homicide detectives.

Imagine getting up for work, having your coffee, then driving straight to a house to see a dead body - I think they compartmentalize it.

There's a photo of Scheiderer with his head on the table like he is stressed out. I seriously think he has had tremendous amounts of stress thrown at him in dealing with the 4 Wagners including Jake avoiding conversation with him.

Sometimes to see appreciation from their clients the defense attorneys have look up the word in a dictionary, then they will see it.
 
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Everything22

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I know this is not Sheriff Reader's forum, but, with all due respect, I cannot even begin to fathom the depth and magnitude of the sheer Hell he and his family endured and keep on enduring as a result of these heinous murders. He was just doing his job (a damn good one at that) when that awful call came...the one that forever changed his life. He didn't ask for any of this, either. The evil Wagners. Ugh!
 
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