GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

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gizmobtj said:
But do you see evidence of complete
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"Dedication" to committing the murders doesn't apply. Being part of the planning, execution, cover up of the murders is relevant. One's mood while voluntarily carrying out the crimes isn't important.

If GW4 didn't want to murder the Rhoden family, he had many months to stop it. I guess he wasn't dedicated to that.
 
Betty P said:
"Dedication" to committing the murders doesn't apply. Being part of the planning, execution, cover up of the murders is relevant. One's mood while voluntarily carrying out the crimes isn't important.

If GW4 didn't want to murder the Rhoden family, he had many months to stop it. I guess he wasn't dedicated to that.
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I think maybe GW had the least to gain from the R's deaths... and then I think, what did he have to gain? Anything? I can't think of one thing as to gain. The inability to say "no" to his mother, father and brother? Probably, imo. AW and JW have obvious motivations and expected gains. I think BW was bound and determined to regain his battered ego by killing CRsr and being top dog again for having done so. I think those 3 had anger and hate fueling them along with their own motivations.

GW is the odd man out, it seems to me.) He already "had possession" of his own child and he may not have felt hate or personal anger against any of the R's. It was said that GW and FR had been good friends at one time. Maybe that friendship got ruined due to GW's family members and their interpersonal problems with the R's and GW had no personal reason of his own to dislike them. It would have been awkward when the rest of the family was having a beef that G's wasn't feeling personally. Maybe GW didn't want to join in on the plan. Why would he want to? And, maybe he thought the way so many people think when they hear about a plan to kill...

"They won't really do it. This won't happen. I'm not going to take this seriously. Something will happen to prevent this from happening. They're only talking."
(And maybe I missed some obvious information and GW did hate the R's... I've been out of the loop since very early after the arrests. So... this is all speculation based on what little I do think I know!)
But, the bottom line is what you said in your comment... odd man out or not. As hard as it might have been for G, he had an awful lot of time to let reality set in good and deep and notify authorities.

OR~ better yet talk to his family and tell them to drop the whole idea of he'll tell police and "I've already given someone a letter to give to police in case something happens to me. Because this plan is crazy and I don't know what my own life is worth to any of you at this point now that you know I'm not going to kill the R's."

OR~ did he just go along with it because it sounded like the most exciting hunting trip he'd ever have in his life?
We don't and can't know what he was thinking. But, I think he killed GR and at least helped to trap CRsr and may have even stood guard outside the other houses, with others, while JW had his fun. Yes... fun, imo. How exciting. What an adventure.
We do know, he told no one in authority. Legally, he's as guilty as any of them no matter what was going on in his mind from the first moment the plan was hatched until the last moment when 8 people were dead. So, I understand "dedication to committing to the murders" but the minute he chose his side... and did nothing to stop it or drop out of the plan... he was committed to carrying out the murders, imo.

This comment is a lot of speculation.
 
pepper 34, I remember you from the early days and appreciate having you back. However, I feel compelled to say "you really had to be here..." just meaning, keeping up with this case day in and day out, has been priceless, in my opinion. Not saying anything bad toward you at all. It's just that 5 years is a long time and things changed constantly in this case. Discovery documents have been overwhelming and some of us have researched our hearts out days and nights trying to understand how and why such evil could exist in our world. I've never been to the Appalachian mountains of Ohio, but one day I hope to go to Pike County. It looks like a beautiful place, and certainly, what happened there does not define the beauty of the land nor the good hearts of so many that live there. But the Wagners have proven to be evil people. Court records in Pike and neighboring counties will attest to that.

George IV had lots of choices. They were his. We need not know why he made the bad ones, but just that he was indicted by a Grand Jury for 8 counts of aggravated murder and other counts of very bad things that helped take those 8 lives.

He did not get "talked into" these crimes, in my opinion. He gladly participated and is only sorry for one thing. He got caught. All MOO.
 
Betty P said:
"Dedication" to committing the murders doesn't apply. Being part of the planning, execution, cover up of the murders is relevant. One's mood while voluntarily carrying out the crimes isn't important.

If GW4 didn't want to murder the Rhoden family, he had many months to stop it. I guess he wasn't dedicated to that.
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I agree Betty. If you are with them it doesn't make a hoot if you pulled a trigger or not, just being in on the planning and being at the scene gets you charged with a DP. George had plenty of time to make a call to LE and tell them what his family was planning. If he had did that 8 lives would have been saved and we would not all be here on this thread. But he did not make that call. LE has all the evidence that we on here do not. We have seen and heard a tiny fraction of what the prosecution has. What they have was enough for Jake to plead guilty to all charges and LE knows who was there and who was not. Who helped plan it and who didn't. Rita and Fred proved that. They were not in on the planning or at the scene otherwise they would be charged with the same charges. But they did lie to a GJ and tried to help the W4 cover it up so IMO they both need some jail time. George needs to go down the same river Jake is taking a fast raft on. JMO
 
Everything22 said:
pepper 34, I remember you from the early days and appreciate having you back. However, I feel compelled to say "you really had to be here..." just meaning, keeping up with this case day in and day out, has been priceless, in my opinion. Not saying anything bad toward you at all. It's just that 5 years is a long time and things changed constantly in this case. Discovery documents have been overwhelming and some of us have researched our hearts out days and nights trying to understand how and why such evil could exist in our world. I've never been to the Appalachian mountains of Ohio, but one day I hope to go to Pike County. It looks like a beautiful place, and certainly, what happened there does not define the beauty of the land nor the good hearts of so many that live there. But the Wagners have proven to be evil people. Court records in Pike and neighboring counties will attest to that.

George IV had lots of choices. They were his. We need not know why he made the bad ones, but just that he was indicted by a Grand Jury for 8 counts of aggravated murder and other counts of very bad things that helped take those 8 lives.

He did not get "talked into" these crimes, in my opinion. He gladly participated and is only sorry for one thing. He got caught. All MOO.
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But you must have taken a break from it also it appears, so IMO no one on here has more knowledge than the next poster.

It has been a learning process for everyone. Also, IMO Cool Cats and Betty P have been master researchers that went above and beyond to keep everyone abreast of what has been going on with this case. Most posters have contributed and should be thanked.

It is okay to disagree, that's what forums basically are... debate. No one should try to change another posters mind. If any of us knew every detail of these senseless murders, we might be just as guilty as those 4 sub-humans. JMO and entitled to it.
 
pepper 34 said:
I think maybe GW had the least to gain from the R's deaths... and then I think, what did he have to gain? Anything? I can't think of one thing as to gain. The inability to say "no" to his mother, father and brother? Probably, imo. AW and JW have obvious motivations and expected gains. I think BW was bound and determined to regain his battered ego by killing CRsr and being top dog again for having done so. I think those 3 had anger and hate fueling them along with their own motivations.

GW is the odd man out, it seems to me.) He already "had possession" of his own child and he may not have felt hate or personal anger against any of the R's. It was said that GW and FR had been good friends at one time. Maybe that friendship got ruined due to GW's family members and their interpersonal problems with the R's and GW had no personal reason of his own to dislike them. It would have been awkward when the rest of the family was having a beef that G's wasn't feeling personally. Maybe GW didn't want to join in on the plan. Why would he want to? And, maybe he thought the way so many people think when they hear about a plan to kill...

"They won't really do it. This won't happen. I'm not going to take this seriously. Something will happen to prevent this from happening. They're only talking."
(And maybe I missed some obvious information and GW did hate the R's... I've been out of the loop since very early after the arrests. So... this is all speculation based on what little I do think I know!)
But, the bottom line is what you said in your comment... odd man out or not. As hard as it might have been for G, he had an awful lot of time to let reality set in good and deep and notify authorities.

OR~ better yet talk to his family and tell them to drop the whole idea of he'll tell police and "I've already given someone a letter to give to police in case something happens to me. Because this plan is crazy and I don't know what my own life is worth to any of you at this point now that you know I'm not going to kill the R's."

OR~ did he just go along with it because it sounded like the most exciting hunting trip he'd ever have in his life?
We don't and can't know what he was thinking. But, I think he killed GR and at least helped to trap CRsr and may have even stood guard outside the other houses, with others, while JW had his fun. Yes... fun, imo. How exciting. What an adventure.
We do know, he told no one in authority. Legally, he's as guilty as any of them no matter what was going on in his mind from the first moment the plan was hatched until the last moment when 8 people were dead. So, I understand "dedication to committing to the murders" but the minute he chose his side... and did nothing to stop it or drop out of the plan... he was committed to carrying out the murders, imo.

This comment is a lot of speculation.
Click to expand...
I do not have any proof, only a speculation, a feeling, that HR had information that would have cost GW his freedom and/or custody of his son. I believe for GW there was motive commit the murders. I think HR knew a lot about the family's criminal activities (more than just JW could be arrested for sex with a minor) I believe this what JW and AW used to manipulate BW and GW to be fully on-board with the murders. MOO.
 
Berrybell said:
I do not have any proof, only a speculation, a feeling, that HR had information that would have cost GW his freedom and/or custody of his son. I believe for GW there was motive commit the murders. I think HR knew a lot about the family's criminal activities (more than just JW could be arrested for sex with a minor) I believe this what JW and AW used to manipulate BW and GW to be fully on-board with the murders. MOO.
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I agree. JMO there was an escalation of threats between Wagner's and Rhodens as the custody battle went on. Some of the Rhodens may have threatened to use information about Wagner's illegal activities to keep custody of S. Those activities could have incriminated all 4 of the Wagners.

At some point, Wagner's realized the Rhodens weren't going to back down. That's when they decided to kill them. As AC said, they did everything as a family unit. The decision to murder the family was made by all 4 of,them, 8including GW 4
 
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W e l l . . . Just 20 days away from George 4's hearing. Anyone care to share thoughts as to what will happen?

I don't know what to think. George seemed pretty miffed at the end of his last hearing while spouting off under his mask at one of his attorneys. But at some point real soon, I think he gonna have to wake up and smell the (rotten) roses. MOO
 
@Betty P

You have so much experience in seeing cases through...Question.

As I go back and read through Motions filed by the defendants, I am amazed at how many were filed based on the DP specification, which has now been taken off the table, correct? TY
 
Betty P said:
Its behind a paywall for me. I don't register for those as I end up getting pfishing emails. A summary would be greatly appreciated.
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It's weird. I never subscribe to that stuff either. I didn't have to go through a paywall. I just did a general Google search for "Rhoden Murders" and it came right up.
 
CC
I have a question to ask of you and to all the other Sleuthers:
In the state of Ohio, if you are under Death Penalty charges that you are automatically denied bond but now the Death Penalty charges are removed does that mean the rest of the Wagners can get a bond set????
 
Betty P said:
Its behind a paywall for me. I don't register for those as I end up getting pfishing emails. A summary would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

In the article from the Columbus Dispatch a quote from Mike DeWine:

“I made a commitment to the families that we would solve this case. This plea was really a big deal, a huge step toward justice,” DeWine told The Dispatch in an interview Monday. “I felt that I should be down there with the families.”

He said he didn’t think it was appropriate to be in the courtroom during the plea, so the DeWines watched it on a livestream and then joined the families afterward. He said the most emotional moment of the day came when family matriarch Geneva Rhoden — now 78, requiring oxygen and barely able to walk — made her way over to him and threw her arms around him in a hug.
 
Johnny B Bad said:
CC
I have a question to ask of you and to all the other Sleuthers:
In the state of Ohio, if you are under Death Penalty charges that you are automatically denied bond but now the Death Penalty charges are removed does that mean the rest of the Wagners can get a bond set????
Click to expand...

IMO they would still be under death penalty specifications and not bondable. None of the other 3 have manned up to admit any guilt so for the time being nothing will change.

Although I hate the idea of any of the three letting it go to trial, they may decide to roll the dice and (in ways it is smart)... it can't do anymore in their sentencing phase as LWOP is all they are looking at regardless. I still don't get it, but A.Canepa is good at what she does. MOO.
 
Johnny B Bad said:
CC
I have a question to ask of you and to all the other Sleuthers:
In the state of Ohio, if you are under Death Penalty charges that you are automatically denied bond but now the Death Penalty charges are removed does that mean the rest of the Wagners can get a bond set????
Click to expand...
In my opinion, no. They have been charged with 8 counts of aggravated murder plus many other charges and have been ordered held without bond. Many months before JW even changed his plea, GW was denied bond.

Now that JW has confessed, changed his plea to guilty and told AC what he, his parents and brother did, I feel very confident there's no way bond would ever be possible. JMO
 
evelezrn said:
In the article from the Columbus Dispatch a quote from Mike DeWine:

“I made a commitment to the families that we would solve this case. This plea was really a big deal, a huge step toward justice,” DeWine told The Dispatch in an interview Monday. “I felt that I should be down there with the families.”

He said he didn’t think it was appropriate to be in the courtroom during the plea, so the DeWines watched it on a livestream and then joined the families afterward. He said the most emotional moment of the day came when family matriarch Geneva Rhoden — now 78, requiring oxygen and barely able to walk — made her way over to him and threw her arms around him in a hug.
Click to expand...

BBM
Thank you so much for sharing this! Made me cry happy tears all over again that Geneva was able to see JW's admission of guilt:):):)!
 
I recall in the info from GW's bond hearing last year that there was mention of GW purchasing a mask (Captain America mask??). Does anyone recall there being mention of BW, AW or JW having a mask?

If he was the only one with a mask, I wonder if he was in charge of removing the surveillance cameras--he wore the mask so his face couldn't be seen when disconnecting the cameras? If so, in my mind, the choice of Captain America would tie in with the Boondock Saints movie--the W4 saw themselves as delivering justice....?

Also, as far as trying to figure out just how long JW has been cooperating with AC, is it possible that he's been cooperating as far back as shortly after the arrests?

AW's discovery states that JW's truck was searched in January 2019, two months after the arrests. I've always wondered why his truck was searched after the arrests. Then in November 2019, there were additional searches performed--at FWF and the Bethel Road property. Again, this was done after the arrests.

Is it possible that JW started cooperating right after he was arrested? I have thought that is a possibility ever since he changed his plea, but there's a hole in my theory----If he's been cooperating since late 2018/early 2019, why did it take so doggone long to get to the point where his plea was changed? Waiting for any evidence collected to be analyzed maybe? I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.
 
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