Discussion in 'Trials' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.
They want them to remove DP officially.
**Moderator approved document from court view.**
In the first 8 Counts of the Indictment the Defense wants the #4 #5 #6 Death Penalty Specifications removed. This involves the 8 murders.
See them in Billy's Count One below:
Information comes from Moderator approved G3-7-16-21.pdf
So why the sudden push to get this officially removed from BW's charges? It's been three months since JW's plea change.
Is BW considering changing his plea? I highly doubt it, but it is at the very least a possibility. RN's plea deal doesn't really affect BW, as I see it. His signature wasn't on any of the custody papers. But JW's plea deal, on the other hand, has a huge impact on BW's case--though I find it hard to believe BW's ego would allow a guilty plea. Just my opinion.
Or, is this just a ploy by BW's attorneys to find any way possible to discredit AC and the prosecution team?
They want them to remove DP officially.
**Moderator approved document from court view.
I believe I recall G4's laywer also mentioning in court that the prosecution had not removed DP as agreed. You could be right about a plea deal but it seems that would be something they would be negotiating behind the scenes and it would be removed at that time if they were not going to trial.
Billy and GW4 both seem to be the most entitled, sociopathic members of that dysfunctional family, JMO.
They've now been proven to have helped plan, execute and cover up the murder 8 innocent people in their sleep and in the presence of their children and babies. How do they behave? Hostile, arrogant, demanding the court cater to their whims, refusing to accept responsibility for the worst mass murder in Ohio history.
They want to go to court over their murder charges and, as they'll surely be found guilty, expect the court to promise it will waive the death penalty for them. These violent, pompous killers don't deserve any more special favors from the court.
If they negotiate a plea deal with the judge, he's agreed to remove the death penalty specification.
I thought judges don't usually sign off on plea agreements until after trials are completed and agreement terms are met. That's what @PrairieWind said when answering questions about RN's plea agreement.
They'll just have to trust the judge to honor the agreement. Kind of like the way the Hanna Rhoden trusted the Wagners to not kill her entire family over a child custody battle.
I am not sure I have ever known of a case where a defendant threw everyone under the bus and negotiated their sentence to some degree. ha I am not sure how that works. There probably have been some I just do not know of them.
At BW's arraignment, his attorney talked about people thinking that BW was the "mastermind" of all the charges. He stated that BW couldn't be the mastermind because he has a "seventh grade education". I know the article linked below is talking about competency/fitness to stand trial, but IMO it could also be BW's attorney trying to prove BW has either a low IQ or a genuine seventh grade education and couldn't be the mastermind.
"An attorney can raise competency as an issue, or a judge may base a finding of competency based on observation. If there is a reasonable basis to believe that competency is an issue, the court orders an evaluation, usually by a forensic psychologist."
Quote from BW attorney:
Collins said investigators have labeled his client the mastermind of the murder plot but said Wagner has a seventh-grade education and no serious criminal history.
Do you remember when he said BW was very intelligent also at one of her motion hearings? I think BW was prob mad at him and he was trying to make him happy.
That was recently "blown out of the water" when Billy's attorneys said he is intelligent, interesting and tells them what to do. Words to that effect from his last Hearing.
Upon reading this post, it certainly sounds to me like BW and his attorney just trying to discredit AC and the prosecution team any way possible. JMO
You could be right! IMO
I sent a follow up question to @PrairieWind about this latest development in the plea deal and will let you know when I get a reply.
Here is a quote from their reply to my first questions about Jake, the other Wagners and the plea deal
@PrairieWind also said (paraphrasing) it probably won't make much difference if any of the other Wagners decide to go to trial. The prosecution wouldn't have agreed to the plea deal with Jake Wagner if they didn't have a solid case against the other 3 defendants. It's highly unlikely they will be acquitted.
An important part about the first quote is that, hypothetically speaking, if the other attorneys decided to take their clients to trial and, for whatever reason, Jake didn't live up to his promise to testify against them in court, the DP will be back on the table for all of them.
That's what I thought. That the Defendant must live up to his end of the plea bargain before it is a %100 done deal.
In other words, Jake's plea deal says he must testify at any trials his family might have. Well George plans to go to trial and Jake will have to testify. So if he refused to testify the plea would be off the table. Point is, the Prosecution does not have to sign off on the plea deal yet.
Basically the Defense is putting on pressure to get the Prosecution to completely sign off on the plea deal, to drop 3 death penalty specifications and take the death penalty out of the case before Jake has kept up his end of it.
RN has not been sentenced yet, why?
Because like Jake she has not completed her plea agreement. She must give full cooperation for the Prosecution and this includes testifying at the Wagner trials.
Why George's lawyers are pressing Canepa to sign off early is anyone's guess.
How I see it
Note in the attachment (thanks CO!) that Jake's modified sentence is 8 consecutive LWOP sentences, plus sentences for the other charges and specifications. Consecutive. So it seems highly unlikely JW will ever see the outside of a prison in this life.
IANAL, but if I were one of the other 3 Wagners, I would think twice about going to trial. If that was the best sentence Jake's attorney could negotiate, I can't imagine any of the other Wags would be able to get a lighter sentence at trial, with a guilty verdict.
The prosecution has no reason to offer to reduce the charges against Billy or GW4 when they're going to trial. The best sentence they can hope for is the same sentence Jake got in his plea deal - 8 consecutive LWOP sentences, plus.
My original take on this hasn't changed. The best option for Billy, Angela and GW4 is to take a plea deal, then work to get some privileges like conjugal visits, etc.
Do they allow conjugal visits in Ohio? I guess they could be in another prison but I do not think that many have conjugal visits.
Probably for the same reason GW4's lawyers pushed for a trial date - they were unable to convince their clients to seek a similar plea agreement with Angela Canepa and Junk. Billy and GW4 don't seem to understand they have very little bargaining power, none at all if they go to trial.
Maybe that's part of the Wagner family group-think - they believe they're above the problems and consequences other people face when they do something wrong. That's typical thinking of a sociopath - "the rules don't apply to me because I'm special". They think they're smarter and more entitled than their attorneys, Canepa and Judge Deering.
No, I guess not, according to this
States that Allow Conjugal Visits
I came up with that example when comparing Jake to Tate -LaBianca mass killer, Tex Watson. He was the only person I could think of who was imprisoned at a young age and will never be paroled, but he's in CA.
There are probably one or two other things the other Wags could bargain for. Fortunately, I'm not an expert in this area.
Criminal Law. Crimes, Legal Information & Lawyers
Conjugal Visits | Rules and History Dopplr Legal News and Information | The Legal Radar
As recently as 1995, 17 states had conjugal visit programs, although federal prisons never allowed it. Today, only four states still allow conjugal visits: California, Connecticut, New York and Washington. New Mexico and Mississippi cancelled their programs within the past two years.
There are no conjugal visitations in Ohio, The state basically says that it is too expensive to build the necessary space.