GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

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LMDlong

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I actually started out with the mindset that they were innocent, not something I could say on here without starting WW III, and I had to be convinced through the evidence and testimony that they were in fact not innocent.

I did not want them to be guilty.

Well I couldn't deny as the evidence came out that the total of it together made it just too obvious that this family had conspired, spied, purchased supplies, prepared weapons and had the motive, the means, and the opportunity to do it. All 4 having zero alibis.

So sad. I was so disappointed that it was them. Still am.

But Juries like real evidence at the crime scenes that tie defendants to those crime scenes. This was thoroughly accomplished by the real footprints they left and by shell casings found at the crime scenes that actually match shell casings on their property.

The Walther Colt leaves a unique signature on the casings it fires, BCI had never seen it before. Some of the casings at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd. had this exact same signature....A Walther Colt 22 was fired at Peterson Rd. and then fired at the victims.

From Scheiderer Testimony at Bond Hearing
When the Wagner’s left Ohio for Alaska that’s when I had no doubt that they were 100% guilty.
 

LMDlong

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I actually started out with the mindset that they were innocent, not something I could say on here without starting WW III, and I had to be convinced through the evidence and testimony that they were in fact not innocent.

I did not want them to be guilty.

Well I couldn't deny as the evidence came out that the total of it together made it just too obvious that this family had conspired, spied, purchased supplies, prepared weapons and had the motive, the means, and the opportunity to do it. All 4 having zero alibis.

So sad. I was so disappointed that it was them. Still am.

But Juries like real evidence at the crime scenes that tie defendants to those crime scenes. This was thoroughly accomplished by the real footprints they left and by shell casings found at the crime scenes that actually match shell casings on their property.

The Walther Colt leaves a unique signature on the casings it fires, BCI had never seen it before. Some of the casings at the crime scenes and at Peterson Rd. had this exact same signature....A Walther Colt 22 was fired at Peterson Rd. and then fired at the victims.

From Scheiderer Testimony at Bond Hearing
When the Wagner’s left Ohio for Alaska that’s when I had no doubt that they were 100% guilty.
ITA, we should all be able to respectfully express our views.

I feel mods have done a good job moderating comments, both pro and con.

I think we can all agree, being a mod can not be easy!:)
 

Cool Cats

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When the Wagner’s left Ohio for Alaska that’s when I had no doubt that they were 100% guilty.

Yup! Many people thought so too. Now we know what was going on, that BCI knew it was them but their hands were tied. They had to get more evidence.

So in July 2018, it was mentioned in the Bond Hearing (I can find the time stamp for Bond Hearing references if asked) that Canepa convened a Grand Jury and they failed to get an indictment. I remember a search that August but would have to research that so take as opinion. Obviously they wanted to find something, anything that would be enough to get the indictments.

On the day that the new owners of the Peterson Road place took possession of the property, BCI did their well/cistern search.

That is when they found a burned maglite flashlight turned into a suppressor.
They quickly convened the GJ and quickly got the 4 indictments.

This wasn't a smoking gun per say according to DeWine, but it was the final piece of a large puzzle.
 

Covert Operative

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Yup! Many people thought so too. Now we know what was going on, that BCI knew it was them but their hands were tied. They had to get more evidence.

So in July 2018, it was mentioned in the Bond Hearing (I can find the time stamp for Bond Hearing references if asked) that Canepa convened a Grand Jury and they failed to get an indictment. I remember a search that August but would have to research that so take as opinion. Obviously they wanted to find something, anything that would be enough to get the indictments.

On the day that the new owners of the Peterson Road place took possession of the property, BCI did their well/cistern search.

That is when they found a burned maglite flashlight turned into a suppressor.
They quickly convened the GJ and quickly got the 4 indictments.

This wasn't a smoking gun per say according to DeWine, but it was the final piece of a large puzzle.

I believe the new owners took possession of Peterson Road in May 2017. The home made suppressor was found in Oct 2018. -------Investigators said information has been presented to the grand jury since July, but the final piece of physical evidence tying the Wagners to the massacre came on Oct. 30 when investigators found a homemade gun silencer they reportedly built.
4 members of the Wagner family arrested, charged with Pike County murders | WKRC (local12.com)
 

Cool Cats

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I believe the new owners took possession of Peterson Road in May 2017. The home made suppressor was found in Oct 2018. -------Investigators said information has been presented to the grand jury since July, but the final piece of physical evidence tying the Wagners to the massacre came on Oct. 30 when investigators found a homemade gun silencer they reportedly built.
4 members of the Wagner family arrested, charged with Pike County murders | WKRC (local12.com)

Then they did that first searach in May after the new owners took possession. The first reach - not well search. Mixed up the searches.

Wonder why they didn't search when the Wagners were living there? Humm.
 

Covert Operative

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Then they did that first searach in May after the new owners took possession. The first reach - not well search. Mixed up the searches.

Wonder why they didn't search when the Wagners were living there? Humm.

The new owner may have given them permission to search and they probably could not get permission from the W's. They may have not had have enough probable cause to get a warrant at the time the W's lived there.
 

Cool Cats

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The new owner may have given them permission to search and they probably could not get permission from the W's. They may have not had have enough probable cause to get a warrant at the time the W's lived there.

I think you answered my question as to why didn't they search the Wagner property at the time they lived there?

Of course it makes perfect sense the Wagners would never consent to a search, and that BCI did not have enough probable cause to get the Search Warrant.

Then BCI talked to the new owners and got their consent. Still, Angela said she was served with a Search Warrant and that would have to be for their property specifically, such as all that stuff in those trailers we saw on the ground and all the vehicles at the HWY car lot. I'm pretty sure those trailers were on the car lot property.

Imagine what the owners must have thought when the silencer and "crime scene" bullet casings were found on their property.
 

Lonicera

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At first, I didn't think the Wagners were smart enough to pull off such a large scale massacre of innocent people. But I never felt any sympathy for them.

From the beginning, it was fairly obvious (to me, anyway) the Wagners showed poorly hidden contempt and anger towards the victims and surviving family members. Jake and Angela's interviews were cold and dismissive towards Hanna Rhoden and her family. I found that a little shocking. I had a feeling they were involved somehow, but didn't think they were smart or experienced enough to pull off the murders without screwing up in an obvious way.

Listening to a recent interview with reporter Chris Graves, formerly of Cincinnati.com, she also conveyed surprise that the Wagners were the killers. She mentioned what devout Christians they were, how often Jake and Angela spoke of their religious convictions and lifestyle. She fell for that same talk that many mid-westerners do - that people who are church-going religious Christians are good people who don't commit those kind of crimes.

People who have some training or come from a different background discount those claims. It's probably a cultural difference.

Agree with you. From the beginning , a few weeks after the killings, I had the feeling they were involved . Jake was very cold towards HR and her family , contemptuous of the young mother ( his dyed hair sounded to me like a farce when I was reading his FB posts ).
Around the same time, he stated loudly and clearly that the two parents have reached a friendly agreement regarding the child's custody : it was inconsistent to me .
And very soon , the killers seemed to be part of the victim's relatives : dogs, full moon , 3 murder's locations ...
 

Covert Operative

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I think you answered my question as to why didn't they search the Wagner property at the time they lived there?

Of course it makes perfect sense the Wagners would never consent to a search, and that BCI did not have enough probable cause to get the Search Warrant.

Then BCI talked to the new owners and got their consent. Still, Angela said she was served with a Search Warrant and that would have to be for their property specifically, such as all that stuff in those trailers we saw on the ground and all the vehicles at the HWY car lot. I'm pretty sure those trailers were on the car lot property.

Imagine what the owners must have thought when the silencer and "crime scene" bullet casings were found on their property.

They may have been able to get search warrants once the W's moved or right around that time. Maybe combining that with other information they had, they then were able to obtain warrants at that point. Possible the search is when they actually had enough probable cause to do so and that was around the time they moved.
I do wonder if someone else did get the GMC from them why they did not come forward when Dewine asked for information. Maybe they did not own it at that time or they did give that information but that vehicle could not be tied to the murders at that time. If it was someone other than family that got that vehicle I guess its possible they were not familiar with the case or did not know of Dewine's request.

At that time, investigators said they were “interested in receiving information regarding any interactions, conversations, dealings, or transactions that the public may have had with these individuals, which could be personal, business or otherwise. Specifically, information could include, but is not limited to, information regarding vehicles, firearms and ammunition.”
UPDATED: 4 members of Wagner family facing capital murder charges in Rhoden family murder case - The Highland County Press
 

Betty P

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Agree with you. From the beginning , a few weeks after the killings, I had the feeling they were involved . Jake was very cold towards HR and her family , contemptuous of the young mother ( his dyed hair sounded to me like a farce when I was reading his FB posts ).
Around the same time, he stated loudly and clearly that the two parents have reached a friendly agreement regarding the child's custody : it was inconsistent to me .
And very soon , the killers seemed to be part of the victim's relatives : dogs, full moon , 3 murder's locations ...

Yes, the surviving family members were very clear about their suspicions, especially Len Manley. It was very frustrating for many when it appeared LE wasn't listening to the family, when they told them about the dogs, the brutal fight over custody that occurred just before the murders, etc. Even more frustrating when some LE turned on them.

In most other situations, LE would have looked closely at the bitter custody battle, the reports of threats and physical fights and Jake's changing stories about his activities that night and taken action, cell phone and social media data from the victims. IANAL, but LE had enough probably cause early on (especially the big fight between the Rhodens and Wagners in the weeks before) to ask a judge to approve a search warrant.

Probable Cause

I think a lot of us assumed they had already fully checked out the Wagners. Murders, assaults, etc. over child custody is sadly not unusual in the US, so its natural to assume JW would be high on the list of suspects. Regardless, I'm glad they finally turned their attention towards the Wagner family.

Now some folks are having to accept the fact that a family who appeared to be what some consider ideal - religious, powerful in the community, related to big landowners, etc. - was an insular, enmeshed family of violent sociopaths who were adept at avoiding detection and pulling the local levers of power to escape accountability and suspicion.

All MOO
 

Cool Cats

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They may have been able to get search warrants once the W's moved or right around that time. Maybe combining that with other information they had, they then were able to obtain warrants at that point. Possible the search is when they actually had enough probable cause to do so and that was around the time they moved.
I do wonder if someone else did get the GMC from them why they did not come forward when Dewine asked for information. Maybe they did not own it at that time or they did give that information but that vehicle could not be tied to the murders at that time. If it was someone other than family that got that vehicle I guess its possible they were not familiar with the case or did not know of Dewine's request.

At that time, investigators said they were “interested in receiving information regarding any interactions, conversations, dealings, or transactions that the public may have had with these individuals, which could be personal, business or otherwise. Specifically, information could include, but is not limited to, information regarding vehicles, firearms and ammunition.”
UPDATED: 4 members of Wagner family facing capital murder charges in Rhoden family murder case - The Highland County Press

Darn. Fireworks canceled again! Geeez

This is a good reason why they could have simply stashed the car in that other County. No one comes forward about the Wagners selling it to them.

On the other hand, the person who they actually did buy it from could have called BCI. Even if the Wagners assumed aliases the seller would recognize them.

So this car might have been on BCI's radar since summer 2017.

Interesting if they find forensic evidence in it. That could come up with George's trial.

I knew George would not plead guilty. <modsnip - discussing minor>
 
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Betty P

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<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modnsip>. He's in jail, preparing to stand trial for helping plan, execute and cover up the murders of 8 innocent people. He is such a monster, he even chose to wear a Captain America mask while helping with the murders.

<modsnip - discussing a minor>

The state has a huge amount of very clear evidence linking George to these crimes. If he cared at all <modsnip> he would accept the plea deal, serve his sentence and ask for forgiveness from the Rhoden, Manley and Gilley families. Instead, he wants a show trial, where all the gory details of the murders and George's involvement in them, will be displayed to a national audience.

<modsnip- discussing a minor>
 
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Betty P

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Yup! Many people thought so too. Now we know what was going on, that BCI knew it was them but their hands were tied. They had to get more evidence.

So in July 2018, it was mentioned in the Bond Hearing (I can find the time stamp for Bond Hearing references if asked) that Canepa convened a Grand Jury and they failed to get an indictment. I remember a search that August but would have to research that so take as opinion. Obviously they wanted to find something, anything that would be enough to get the indictments.

On the day that the new owners of the Peterson Road place took possession of the property, BCI did their well/cistern search.

That is when they found a burned maglite flashlight turned into a suppressor.
They quickly convened the GJ and quickly got the 4 indictments.

This wasn't a smoking gun per say according to DeWine, but it was the final piece of a large puzzle.

In most jurisdictions in the US, the prosecution would have been able to get a search warrant for the Wagner's Peterson Rd farm before they moved. Not sure why they didn't get one or, possibly, didn't ask for one. Pike County is strange.

I hope they all learn something from these crimes, the criminals involved and the need to work harder at having a functional criminal justice system. Maybe they can apply for some grants to provide better training and education regarding these matters. They shouldn't feel alone, however. There are numerous instances of similar problems around the US. Lack of adequate funding, the opiod crisis and other problems made things difficult. MOO
 

LMDlong

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Yup! Many people thought so too. Now we know what was going on, that BCI knew it was them but their hands were tied. They had to get more evidence.

So in July 2018, it was mentioned in the Bond Hearing (I can find the time stamp for Bond Hearing references if asked) that Canepa convened a Grand Jury and they failed to get an indictment. I remember a search that August but would have to research that so take as opinion. Obviously they wanted to find something, anything that would be enough to get the indictments.

On the day that the new owners of the Peterson Road place took possession of the property, BCI did their well/cistern search.

That is when they found a burned maglite flashlight turned into a suppressor.
They quickly convened the GJ and quickly got the 4 indictments.

This wasn't a smoking gun per say according to DeWine, but it was the final piece of a large puzzle.
I too remember the failed indictment. I will admit I was worried someone was paying someone off to prevent the indictment. But Canepa didn’t let that stop her.
 

LMDlong

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In most jurisdictions in the US, the prosecution would have been able to get a search warrant for the Wagner's Peterson Rd farm before they moved. Not sure why they didn't get one or, possibly, didn't ask for one. Pike County is strange.

I hope they all learn something from these crimes, the criminals involved and the need to work harder at having a functional criminal justice system. Maybe they can apply for some grants to provide better training and education regarding these matters. They shouldn't feel alone, however. There are numerous instances of similar problems around the US. Lack of adequate funding, the opiod crisis and other problems made things difficult. MOO
JMO I think the prosecution knew they would screw up with the move. The Wagner’s left a trail everywhere they went. Rushing to move things get left behind . The prosecution wanted enough evidence to make sure the Wagners did not get off. Again JMO
 

Betty P

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JMO I think the prosecution knew they would screw up with the move. The Wagner’s left a trail everywhere they went. Rushing to move things get left behind . The prosecution wanted enough evidence to make sure the Wagners did not get off. Again JMO

True, the search was probably easier once the Wags had moved their stuff out of barns, etc.

But the fact that the Pike County judge gave JW custody of S, then allowed the family to take her to AK when they were suspected of murdering the Rhodens shows there was some poor decision-making. MOO
 

LMDlong

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True, the search was probably easier once the Wags had moved their stuff out of barns, etc.

But the fact that the Pike County judge gave JW custody of S, then allowed the family to take her to AK when they were suspected of murdering the Rhodens shows there was some poor decision-making. MOO
I agree about the custody being a poor decision. I didn’t think that custody decision legal. JMO

<modnsip - quoted post removed due to no link>

JMO if the Wagner’s and Rhoden’s were such good friends and S lost her mother why didn’t they attend? Because they knew what the did, the families knew too . The Wagner’s were cowards.
 
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Covert Operative

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I agree about the custody being a poor decision. I didn’t think that custody decision legal. JMO

I think LE probably had been told about the issues between them and the R's at that point but I doubt there was anything they could legally do to stop him from filing or getting custody at that time.
I think he also filed it so soon after while everyone else was still planning funerals and grieving to beat anyone else to causing an issue for him. Someone may have tried to bring up the underage sexual misconduct against him or try to get custody themselves. LE probably did not have evidence at that time to stop JW. It was done very soon after the murders.
 

LMDlong

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I think LE probably had been told about the issues between them and the R's at that point but I doubt there was anything they could legally do to stop him from filing or getting custody at that time.
I think he also filed it so soon after while everyone else was still planning funerals and grieving to beat anyone else to causing an issue for him. Someone may have tried to bring up the underage sexual misconduct against him or try to get custody themselves. LE probably did not have evidence at that time to stop JW. It was done very soon after the murders.
JMO I think being that HR was murdered a temporary custody should have been issued to give time for the funerals .
 
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