GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Cool Cats]

I'm looking at doing a quick summary of them, mostly the relevant parts where something important happened or something new revealed. I'd like to avoid the ones where the attorneys were just arguing for more time, etc. People can see that stuff online.

As with the original timeline, each item has to have a link to a Websleuths approved source.

I've been thinking of updating it for a while. I've actually added some key things to the copy I have on my computer. I was noticing some mistakes and omissions in things being reported and written about online.

For instance, I'm pretty sure when Rita Newcomb entered her plea agreement with the court, the judge also said she would assist the prosecution, but she wouldn't have to testify in any trials. For some reason, this wasn't reported in the news media, but it really should be included. It shows the court and prosecution have always been considerate about the difficulty of making close family members testify against each other in this case.

Interesting about Rita. I'm going to listen to her plea hearing again.

One more question. If you put it in the timeline that Rita won't have to testify (I thought she did) how would you do a link for that since the information only comes from the hearing. Link to the YouTube video of it?
Give the time stamp?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think that is what we have been doing with what evidence we have so far, some have been speculating what strategy the defense might use, how the jury could perceive the evidence/lack of, and/or JWs testimony. I have not read where anyone said they thought any of the 3 could be acquitted only that there is always the possibility of the a sentence lighter than LWOP. I don't think it is unreasonable to discuss the potential of various outcomes.

For myself, I have long said it has been Jake's show all the way, his GF, his child, his in-laws, his problem, his confession and his guilty plea. I think Jake was the ringleader, the motivator, and the manipulator, in persuading his family to do what he wanted done. Hannah and her whole family dead. No one left to contest his right to custody of SW. I also think when they were caught Jake spilled his guts about everything. He threw them all under the bus to save his own life. If you will all recall the discovery of evidence, the search warrants, everything speeded up right after Jake was arrested. I think he started talking right away, because they had the goods on him, including that weird text he sent JM at 2:00 AM the night of the murders.

I think he gave them all the evidence they needed to hang his brother, parents. All going down with LWOP including him.

And maybe some information about one or both of his grandmothers, such as when they knew and what they knew, that is assuming they knew before the arrests. No facts or evidence as of yet to prove Fred or Rita knew about the murders at this time. Don't know what will come out if or when one of the other 3 goes to trial.

Then he played the master manipulator and all around hero one more time by making sure everyone, including his brother, knew he bargained a guilty plea in exchange for taking the DP off the table for all the rest of them. That's our Jake, always thinking of others before himself. Or..... just maybe he was afraid he might end up one day in the same prison as his brother or dad.

JMO...my own theory....based on my own interpretation of what facts I have read over the last 5 years.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Do you think all of their pleas will be the same as JW?

I don't think they will be.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Do you think all of their pleas will be the same as JW?

Angela Wagner is ready to plead guilty, JMO

 

[Dudly]

Angela Wagner is ready to plead guilty, JMO

What makes you think she is?

 

[Covert Operative]

Angela Wagner is ready to plead guilty, JMO

It is strange that her attorneys have not really filed much of anything for a year and they have not asked for the evidence, JW confession etc. as the other two have. Maybe they have it and know she is SOL or they like his confession to a degree for her and do not want to rock the boat. They did file to get her phone privileges but it is not on the court calendar yet.
You think she is just going to plead guilty to everything or is trying to work a plea deal?

 

[Betty P]

Interesting about Rita. I'm going to listen to her plea hearing again.

One more question. If you put it in the timeline that Rita won't have to testify (I thought she did) how would you do a link for that since the information only comes from the hearing. Link to the YouTube video of it?
Give the time stamp?

Yeah, for now that's the best way, I guess. I'm going to look in the back pages here for the hearing. I'm pretty sure it was discussed then, maybe there's a link to an article that did mention it.

 

[Betty P]

What makes you think she is?

I think she has a lot of evidence against her. Its possible there was a lot said during the recorded phone conversations with her mother. She was also deeply involved in the forging of the custody documents, planning, execution and cover up. I have a hunch she sent a lot of texts, emails, made phone calls, etc. that incriminated her and reveals the motive. Not sure I agree she was the mastermind of the murders, but she was the one who got the ball rolling, then helped put the plan in action. JMO, she wouldn't have the necessary skills to plan and carry out the murders, including the stalking of the victims, plans to get into the homes, ways to prevent leaving evidence, weapons, dealing with dogs, etc. The 3 Wagner men probably masterminded that part.

JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

I don't think they will be.

Do you have any thoughts on what you think they may be or how they will be different, if they do plea.

 

[Impurectry]

Do you think all of their pleas will be the same as JW?

No I think AW is going for some type of insanity.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

 

[IType]

What makes you think she is?

I also think a plea change for AW is possibly coming. It's just a gut feeling, just my opinion.

It has always seemed to me that JW was closer to AW and GW4 was closer to BW. No proof of it, just how it seemed to me. I'm sure it hit AW pretty hard when her own mother changed her plea to guilty and admitted it was AW that told her to lie to the grand jury. But, it must have really cut AW deep when JW changed his plea and agreed to testify against her. She no longer has any control over JW's actions or her mother's actions, and they are the two people she seemed the closest to, IMO. I would think that would be a bitter pill for AW to swallow, to no longer be in control.

I think she'll try to work out a plea deal for herself and claim that she was abused by BW and forced to participate and/or that JW had her wrapped around his little finger, so she was manipulated by him to participate.

All JMO

 

[Berrybell]

For myself, I have long said it has been Jake's show all the way, his GF, his child, his in-laws, his problem, his confession and his guilty plea. I think Jake was the ringleader, the motivator, and the manipulator, in persuading his family to do what he wanted done. Hannah and her whole family dead. No one left to contest his right to custody of SW. I also think when they were caught Jake spilled his guts about everything. He threw them all under the bus to save his own life. If you will all recall the discovery of evidence, the search warrants, everything speeded up right after Jake was arrested. I think he started talking right away, because they had the goods on him, including that weird text he sent JM at 2:00 AM the night of the murders.

I think he gave them all the evidence they needed to hang his brother, parents. All going down with LWOP including him.

And maybe some information about one or both of his grandmothers, such as when they knew and what they knew, that is assuming they knew before the arrests. No facts or evidence as of yet to prove Fred or Rita knew about the murders at this time. Don't know what will come out if or when one of the other 3 goes to trial.

Then he played the master manipulator and all around hero one more time by making sure everyone, including his brother, knew he bargained a guilty plea in exchange for taking the DP off the table for all the rest of them. That's our Jake, always thinking of others before himself. Or..... just maybe he was afraid he might end up one day in the same prison as his brother or dad.

JMO...my own theory....based on my own interpretation of what facts I have read over the last 5 years.

I agree with everything you have said here, it's all about Jake and always has been.

 

[Berrybell]

I also think a plea change for AW is possibly coming. It's just a gut feeling, just my opinion.

It has always seemed to me that JW was closer to AW and GW4 was closer to BW. No proof of it, just how it seemed to me. I'm sure it hit AW pretty hard when her own mother changed her plea to guilty and admitted it was AW that told her to lie to the grand jury. But, it must have really cut AW deep when JW changed his plea and agreed to testify against her. She no longer has any control over JW's actions or her mother's actions, and they are the two people she seemed the closest to, IMO. I would think that would be a bitter pill for AW to swallow, to no longer be in control.

I think she'll try to work out a plea deal for herself and claim that she was abused by BW and forced to participate and/or that JW had her wrapped around his little finger, so she was manipulated by him to participate.

All JMO

I can see AW trying to use the battered-women's syndrome as a defense.

 

[Cool Cats]

I also think a plea change for AW is possibly coming. It's just a gut feeling, just my opinion.

It has always seemed to me that JW was closer to AW and GW4 was closer to BW. No proof of it, just how it seemed to me. I'm sure it hit AW pretty hard when her own mother changed her plea to guilty and admitted it was AW that told her to lie to the grand jury. But, it must have really cut AW deep when JW changed his plea and agreed to testify against her. She no longer has any control over JW's actions or her mother's actions, and they are the two people she seemed the closest to, IMO. I would think that would be a bitter pill for AW to swallow, to no longer be in control.

I think she'll try to work out a plea deal for herself and claim that she was abused by BW and forced to participate and/or that JW had her wrapped around his little finger, so she was manipulated by him to participate.

All JMO

<Modsnip>

Jake's plea deal was up to Canepa and the families. They could have rejected Jake's plea deal.

What on earth could the 3 Wagners - who are left - get in a plea deal?
What? Drop the burglary? Drop tampering with evidence? Drop the digital intercepting of various Facebook (Messenger) accounts? etc...

At this point taking off some of the lesser charges will not produce a different outcome.

There is zero the Wagners gain in a plea deal except to plead guilty then avoid a trial that shows details they want to hide.

This whole case is about the 3 families getting justice for the 8 murders.

Not 7, not 6 or 5 or 4 etc...But all 8. If anyone thinks Canepa and the families will drop even one murder charge I have "property" for you to buy in FL - swamp and all.

...2 Cents....

 

[Covert Operative]

I can see AW trying to use the battered-women's syndrome as a defense.

Do you or Itype have any thoughts on why her lawyers have not requested certain things from JW's confession but the other two have. They could already have it all but it's doubrful. They basically have not done anything but file to get her phone privileges back.

State is suppose to turn over the proffer by August 2nd in G4 case. It is considered discovery.

G4-The Court finds that the Defendant has requested through discovery that the State of Ohio furnish the Defendant with a copy of the proffer of Edward Jacob Wagner, and that the State of Ohio has agreed to furnish a copy of the proffer to defense counsel on or before August 2, 2021.
Case Details - CourtView Justice Solutions (pikecountycpcourt.org)

 

[Covert Operative]

I also think a plea change for AW is possibly coming. It's just a gut feeling, just my opinion.

It has always seemed to me that JW was closer to AW and GW4 was closer to BW. No proof of it, just how it seemed to me. I'm sure it hit AW pretty hard when her own mother changed her plea to guilty and admitted it was AW that told her to lie to the grand jury. But, it must have really cut AW deep when JW changed his plea and agreed to testify against her. She no longer has any control over JW's actions or her mother's actions, and they are the two people she seemed the closest to, IMO. I would think that would be a bitter pill for AW to swallow, to no longer be in control.

I think she'll try to work out a plea deal for herself and claim that she was abused by BW and forced to participate and/or that JW had her wrapped around his little finger, so she was manipulated by him to participate.

All JMO

I agree with you that she may try something like that. I could see a plea deal depending on what information, evidence they have on her, his confession etc. with something slightly less than LWOP but not a lot better.

There may have been plea deals already offered that no agreement was reached. (I strongly feel that is the case and it may not have been LWOP but it was so close that it was not accepted ) Just my thoughts from watching the hearings, listening and trying to read between the lines.

If she is gonna get LWOP for a plea or in a trial they probably will go to trial and see what happens.

I am pro DP in a lot of cases (not every case) so LWOP seems lenient to me. I know not everyone is pro DP and I respect that opinion.

 

[IType]

<Modsnip>

Jake's plea deal was up to Canepa and the families. They could have rejected Jake's plea deal.

What on earth could the 3 Wagners - who are left - get in a plea deal?
What? Drop the burglary? Tampering with evidence? Drop the digital intercepting of their Facebook (Messenger) accounts? etc...

At this point taking off some of the lesser charges will not produce a different outcome.

There is zero the Wagners gain in a plea deal except plead guilty then avoid a trial that shows details they want to hide.

This whole case is about the 3 families getting justice for the 8 murders. Not 7, not 6 or 5 or 4 etc...But all 8. If anyone thinks Canepa and the families will drop even one murder charge I have "property" for you to buy in FL swamp and all.

Point is, no way will Canepa or the families OK a Wagner plea deal that takes ANY of 8 murders off the table.

...2 Cents....

Respectfully, please back up a minute. You are misinterpreting what I said.

Directly quoting my previous post: "I also think a plea change for AW is possibly coming." I said nothing about making a deal that "takes ANY of 8 murders off the table."

Again, I said a plea change. AW can simply change her plea to guilty and accept the sentence of LWOP as already provided by JW's deal with AC and already approved by the surviving families.

In my opinion, I think AW--having no apparent support system (i.e., RN and JW) left, will change her plea to guilty. If she does change her plea to guilty, she will be given an opportunity to address those in attendance--just as JW did when he changed his plea (Wagner, 28, said in court that he is "deeply and very sorry." see link below). AW's attorneys will also be given an opportunity to make comments, just like JW's (Wagner, one of his lawyers said, knows he will die in prison. see link below).

In my opinion, it is possible that if AW changes her plea to guilty, either she or her attorneys may make comments indicating she was bullied/forced by BW and/or manipulated by JW to commit these heinous crimes in an effort to try and look like less of a monster. In my opinion, this tactic won't matter one bit because her true colors have already been boldly displayed by what she has done to these eight innocent people and their surviving families. But--in my opinion--she may try it anyway in an effort to make her feel better about herself.

For clarity: I want absolutely nothing more than every one of the W4 to spend the rest of their lives behind bars, and I do not ever want to see any of them released for any reason.

All JMO.

Links:
Jake Wagner pleads guilty in killings of his ex and 7 of her family members - CBS News

After Guilty Plea, Jake Wagner Faces Life Without Parole And The Daughter He Killed For

 

[IType]

Do you or Itype have any thoughts on why her lawyers have not requested certain things from JW's confession but the other two have. They could already have it all but it's doubrful. They basically have not done anything but file to get her phone privileges back.

State is suppose to turn over the proffer by August 2nd in G4 case. It is considered discovery.

G4-The Court finds that the Defendant has requested through discovery that the State of Ohio furnish the Defendant with a copy of the proffer of Edward Jacob Wagner, and that the State of Ohio has agreed to furnish a copy of the proffer to defense counsel on or before August 2, 2021.
Case Details - CourtView Justice Solutions (pikecountycpcourt.org)

To me, the lack of filings/activity in the court docket for 12 months is quite a mystery.

I honestly wonder if AW being uncooperative with her attorneys is behind it. for example, her blatantly disobeying the court order for no contact with her co-defendants and her still wearing jail garb to court when she's been given permission to wear street clothes. Her one attorney stated to the judge on more than one occasion that she had been told not to contact her co-defendants and had been told she could wear street clothes to court.

If I were her attorney, I'd be pretty honked off about it. IMO, it kind of made him look foolish in front of the judge because his client can't obey the rules. If I was AW attorney, I sure wouldn't be too enthused about helping her--but, then again, that's a slippery slope because I also wouldn't want to ruin my professional reputation.

Also, if AW is having trouble facing "the big picture", maybe she is burying her head in the sand. I guess it's possible she could think she can drag her feet and slow down her attorneys' work on her case, so it will just delay how soon she'll be sent to prison. Hard to say.

As far as not requesting copies of the proffer on JW, that is one reason why I think AW may be considering changing her plea. Simply knowing her mom and her son have turned on her may be all she and her legal team need to know in reaching a conclusion about changing her plea to guilty/LWOP.

I really expect both BW and GW4 to go to trial, so the information in the proffer would be of more value to them in building their own cases. If AW does change her plea, the proffer really isn't of much added value to her case. Just my opinion.

 

[LMDlong]

<Modsnip>

Jake's plea deal was up to Canepa and the families. They could have rejected Jake's plea deal.

What on earth could the 3 Wagners - who are left - get in a plea deal?
What? Drop the burglary? Drop tampering with evidence? Drop the digital intercepting of various Facebook (Messenger) accounts? etc...

At this point taking off some of the lesser charges will not produce a different outcome.

There is zero the Wagners gain in a plea deal except to plead guilty then avoid a trial that shows details they want to hide.

This whole case is about the 3 families getting justice for the 8 murders.

Not 7, not 6 or 5 or 4 etc...But all 8. If anyone thinks Canepa and the families will drop even one murder charge I have "property" for you to buy in FL - swamp and all.

...2 Cents....

Maybe phone privileges back <Modsnip>