GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

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Covert Operative

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Can someone answer a question for me. I cant believe I am fuzzy on this.
Whose wife had to flee during the night and were were they living , which address, home, when she had to flee on a bicycle?

G4 ex had to flee, but I am not sure if it was Bethel or Peterson Road address. I tend to think Bethel.
 

RAISINISBACK

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If CRsr was expecting BW to stop by, then why did they buy the truck, and disguise it, to go there? If questioned about having been there that night, he could have said CRsr was fine when he left….
Because they didn't want other people, like neighbors or people driving by, seeing a vehicle known to be owned by them and telling LE? So they bought a vehicle no one had ever seen the W's driving or associated with and "modified it" (AC's words) so Jake and George could hide and shoot at Chris.

Think about the DC killer who drilled a hole in the truck of his car to shoot innocents out of.

JMO
 

RAISINISBACK

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If CRsr was expecting BW to stop by, then why did they buy the truck, and disguise it, to go there? If questioned about having been there that night, he could have said CRsr was fine when he left….
Because they didn't want other people, like neighbors or people driving by, seeing a vehicle known to be owned by them and telling LE? So they bought a vehicle no one had ever seen the W's driving or associated with and "modified it" (AC's words) so Jake and George could hide and shoot at Chris.

Think about the DC killer who drilled a hole in the truck of his car to shoot innocents out of.

JMO
 

Ann99

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G4 ex had to flee, but I am not sure if it was Bethel or Peterson Road address. I tend to think Bethel.
I thought it was T, and wondered if it was Bethel, only because of the unbelievable remoteness of the Bethel address. To truly understand her horror and fear one would have to realize how far she had to ride in the complete darkness on small rural winding roads. And being so close to FWF.
I don't know where there was a gas station nearby.
Anyone know a possible gas station in the vicinity?
My reason for asking these details is that this woman lived in greater fear and danger than I had realized and did more heroic-like things than are immediately clear to us. She really did have to save herself, save her own life.
If I were T and had a choice, I would not talk to the defense at all.
 

Ann99

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I am thinking W’s bought the truck to possibly look like JM was there. Parked in the darkness on UHR near CRsr place it could have resembled JM vehicle.
Thus the “ Hey Sis” story and the late night text from JM to JW or vice versa that has never been fully vetted, and then LE fell for the ruse and thats why LE put the GPS on JM truck.
I also think that is why the JM legal issue quickly disappeared without explanation. Somehow LE figured out they had been fooled by W’s. And they were.
All supposition. I could be completely wrong.
 

Berrybell

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I thought it was T, and wondered if it was Bethel, only because of the unbelievable remoteness of the Bethel address. To truly understand her horror and fear one would have to realize how far she had to ride in the complete darkness on small rural winding roads. And being so close to FWF.
I don't know where there was a gas station nearby.
Anyone know a possible gas station in the vicinity?
My reason for asking these details is that this woman lived in greater fear and danger than I had realized and did more heroic-like things than are immediately clear to us. She really did have to save herself, save her own life.
If I were T and had a choice, I would not talk to the defense at all.
Yes this young woman is brave. I cannot imagine the horror and fear she experienced that night and living with The Hills Have Eyes family.
 

Dudly

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Because they didn't want other people, like neighbors or people driving by, seeing a vehicle known to be owned by them and telling LE? So they bought a vehicle no one had ever seen the W's driving or associated with and "modified it" (AC's words) so Jake and George could hide and shoot at Chris.

Think about the DC killer who drilled a hole in the truck of his car to shoot innocents out of.

JMO
But then CRsr would not have recognized it as BW pulling in, either, and would have been suspicious as to whom it was…
 

evelezrn

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Sorry, but I listened to that hearing 3 times and each time AC said they sat around the kitchen table (where they all ate their meals ewww) and took a vote on Jake and EW's sex life including where EW would sleep and when they would be allowed to engage in sex.

AC said it plain as day. It blew me away. And of course I naturally went to the dark place where I wondered if Jake and George were allowed to vote on whether Angela and Billy could have sexual relations. (BW and AW were in their early 40's, so yeah, it's probable and you all know me, I went there. lol)

The closest I have came to hearing anything like this was Waco, TX and David Koresh who declared no one could have sex with their wives. He was the only male who could have sex in the entire compound.



JMO

BBM

I love that you "went there" Raisin.

And it sounds like EW was officially voted off the island. Thankfully, she got out alive.
 

RAISINISBACK

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I am thinking W’s bought the truck to possibly look like JM was there. Parked in the darkness on UHR near CRsr place it could have resembled JM vehicle.
Thus the “ Hey Sis” story and the late night text from JM to JW or vice versa that has never been fully vetted, and then LE fell for the ruse and thats why LE put the GPS on JM truck.
I also think that is why the JM legal issue quickly disappeared without explanation. Somehow LE figured out they had been fooled by W’s. And they were.
All supposition. I could be completely wrong.
Great theory and I think very possible. Good thinking!!!!!

JMO
 

RAISINISBACK

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But then CRsr would not have recognized it as BW pulling in, either, and would have been suspicious as to whom it was…
Not necessarily. With Chris and the pot grow and the working on other people cars and Chris Jr's vehicle in the drive he may not have paid attention to any strange vehicle parked in his brother's drive. But he would have most certainly have remembered it after 7 members of his family were killed that night and beat a fast path to Sheriff Reader to give Reader a description of said vehicle he saw.

JMO
 

IType

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There is one question that keeps coming to the front of my mind. I realize no one here knows for sure, but I would be interested in others' opinions. How on earth and why did AW and BW become so controlling over their sons' lives?

I could be wrong, but I don't have the impression that BW or AW were raised in this cult-like (IMO) way. AW didn't live under the same roof with her extended family when she reached adulthood. She even went into the military at some point. BW worked for his parents; but he, his wife and children didn't live with his parents and have to help support them.

Why did BW and AW want to control every aspect of their children's lives?
 

Cool Cats

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There is one question that keeps coming to the front of my mind. I realize no one here knows for sure, but I would be interested in others' opinions. How on earth and why did AW and BW become so controlling over their sons' lives?

I could be wrong, but I don't have the impression that BW or AW were raised in this cult-like (IMO) way. AW didn't live under the same roof with her extended family when she reached adulthood. She even went into the military at some point. BW worked for his parents; but he, his wife and children didn't live with his parents and have to help support them.

Why did BW and AW want to control every aspect of their children's lives?

I think it had to do with financial reasons. Note that Angela was dependant on her boys supporting her. She shared their bank accounts and lived in their Peterson Rd. house. I believe the Peterson Rd house was a gift to the boys from Fred. We had a discussion about this several times where the boys got the house for a dollar.

Also, any social security and welfare money coming in for the kids would have benefited Angela. There are photos of George and Jake with dyed hair helping on the farm. Angie counted on them to help run her farm. Also Jake said he worked on the family farm.

I think Billy got some money working on FWF and he may have been the one who got the small amount of disability, and he moved in with his mom to help care for his dad. Thus, this left Angela with needing financial help from her boys.

Bottom line, the parents relied too much on financial help from their sons.

This is how I see it anyway.

Imagine being middle aged and having no career or retirement saved up. Billy may have been able to look forward to an inheritance from his mom but what about Angie?

I think especially Angie was financially dependent on her sons. By helping to raise her son's children it gave her more of a guarantee of benefitting from any money, just like a wife benefits from her husband's money when she is raising his kids full time.

And don't forget, there was the possibility of Angie's grandkids getting inheritences and benefiting from Medicaid and food stamps and social security and victim aid and life insurance etc.. Special victim's funds etc...

Greed is never mentioned. Never. But I think there was greed involved in Billy and Angela wanting those children.

These are evil selfish people. Remember that.
 
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RAISINISBACK

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I think it had to do with financial reasons. Note that Angela was dependant on her boys supporting her. She shared their bank accounts and lived in their Peterson Rd. house. I believe the Peterson Rd house was a a gift to the boys from Fred. We had a discussion about this several times where the boys got the house for a dollar.

Also, any social security and welfare money coming in for the kids would have benefited Angela. There are photos of George and Jake with dyed hair helping on the farm. Angie counted on them to help run her farm.

I think Billy got some money working on FWF and he may have been the one who got the small amount of disability, and he moved in with his mom to help care for his dad. Thus, this left Angela with needing financial help from her boys.

Bottom line, the parents relied too much on financial help from their sons.

This is how I see it anyway.

Imagine being middle aged and having no career or retirement saved up. Billy may have been able to look forward to an inheritance from his mom but what about Angie?

I think especially Angie was financially dependent on her sons. By helping to raise her son's children it gave her more of a guarantee of benefitting from any money, just like a wife benefits from her husband's money when she is raising his kids full time.

And don't forget, there was the possibility of Angie's grandkids getting inheritences and benefiting from Medicaid and food stamps and social security and victim aid and life insurance etc.. Special victim's funds etc...

BBM

Bottom line, the parents relied too much on financial help from their sons.

I agree, with one addition. Billy was dependent on his sons to help him steal. AC said they were even teaching the two children to steal.

JMO
 

Covert Operative

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I am thinking W’s bought the truck to possibly look like JM was there. Parked in the darkness on UHR near CRsr place it could have resembled JM vehicle.
Thus the “ Hey Sis” story and the late night text from JM to JW or vice versa that has never been fully vetted, and then LE fell for the ruse and thats why LE put the GPS on JM truck.
I also think that is why the JM legal issue quickly disappeared without explanation. Somehow LE figured out they had been fooled by W’s. And they were.
All supposition. I could be completely wrong.

I think that is possible or could be possible that a red truck may have been seen on some camera somewhere but was not a good pic. Supposedly JM did not own the truck at the time of the murders and seems it was said it was a year later he got it. LE could have thought that he owned it and had it hidden though.
Pike County murders: Father of victim angered by investigation (daytondailynews.com)
Among them: Why did investigators seek to track James Manley’s vehicle? Leonard Manley said the vehicle did not belong to his son the day of the murders, but couldn’t remember who owned it then.
 

Cool Cats

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BBM

Bottom line, the parents relied too much on financial help from their sons.

I agree, with one addition. Billy was dependent on his sons to help him steal. AC said they were even teaching the two children to steal.

JMO

And to commit arson and to get fraudulent mortgage loans and to sell what they stole and to intimidate people to go along with them and to spend drug money from Billy running drugs.....etc...

It now stops with the current generation. No more of it.

Where is the Maalox?
 

Piffcat

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You Sleuthers got to keep in mind that Jake Wagner is telling this story and he is a liar and can’t be trusted, Chris Sr. didn’t trust Billy Wagner to come to his home after they tried to make HR two weeks prior sign adoption papers, and plus a gnu was already involved in that fight, you Sleuthers got to remember that a decoy vehicle was already bought and ready to be used for the murders that night. I really believe that Big Chris thought someone else was coming that night and didn’t think twice when he saw that decoy vehicle pull in his driveway and when Billy knocked on the door that is when the ambush happened with Jake and George hiding in the weeds shooting guns at Big Chris and Gary and don’t think for a minute that Jake Wagner walked in Frankie mobile home without his big brother George that’s why the Captain American mask was bought for George, JMO

this is the best conclusion ive heard. we know more then one vehicle was used and the "modifications" could have been modeled after a car known to crsr to belong to a specific person involved with the fake deal. theres still so much i cant wrap my head around especially the silencers. seems to me they are not useful in this situation unless all weapons are silenced. then again the rifle could have had a suppressor albeit less effective then a subsonic 22. looks like they cut the rifle up before going in bucket since its not listed in ballistics imo so maybe they built one for the rifle too
 

Chris_p_bacon

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Wow. A lot of information from this last hearing. I am just wondering if pehaps the BW going to CRsrs trailer that night under the guise of a drug deal is part of the reason the boys died their hair. At least I think it was both boys died their hair, but can't seem to find the exact reference to it. I also wondered for a long time if both BW and the Rhodens had business dealings in the Drug business. This explains a lot of things to me, like why the wagners would not just petition the court for custody and mention the girl was being raised in a grow operation. Thats because the wagners were in on it. I also wonder if it also explains why the wagners co-mingled funds, as a way to launder money obtained through cash-drug transactions. Would most of the wagners income come from unreportable cash transactions? There for not reported to the IRS, therefore not tracked by the Social Security for any retirement. In the long run is this the root cause of Angela wanting custody and to be called Mommy so bad. I would have to look it up if Social Security would cover such a situation. At any rate, I think there was a lot of info from this last hearing.
 

Piffcat

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I am thinking W’s bought the truck to possibly look like JM was there. Parked in the darkness on UHR near CRsr place it could have resembled JM vehicle.
Thus the “ Hey Sis” story and the late night text from JM to JW or vice versa that has never been fully vetted, and then LE fell for the ruse and thats why LE put the GPS on JM truck.
I also think that is why the JM legal issue quickly disappeared without explanation. Somehow LE figured out they had been fooled by W’s. And they were.
All supposition. I could be completely wrong.
that makes alot of sense considering the obsession and scrutiny over this red truck. framing the manleys seemed to be a focal point of the plan. thankfully it backfired id love to know what the mistake was that tipped le the wags were dirty liars. remember the conflict with trout at bci, claiming he broke the case etc etc. this may be referring to this revelations after the red truck debacle.
 

altojack

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Not seen the hearing yet and been busy busy over the weekend. Son No 5 got married Saturday and because I suffer badly from osteoarthritis in many joints, knee in particular, I've been confined to bed Sunday and Monday!

Following the Depp Defamation case every day bar Friday, the reason I've been flitting in and out of here. I promise I'll watch the hearing in the morning, it sounds fascinating, lots of stuff we didn't know. Some stuff I'd rather not know haha.
 
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