GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

[Covert Operative]

In my notes--which I think I got from a timeline in the media/timeline thread--I have the Peterson Road farm purchase as February 2014. I can't swear this is accurate, though, so JMO.

You keep good notes. 2-4-14.

 

[IType]

I'm going from memory here, but wasn't there a slingshot purchase listed in a discovery document?

Just spitballing here, but is it possible what really happened was the slingshot was used to bust a window and thus bringing CRSR to the door--and the W4 are just making up the story about a fake drug deal ruse?

Not sure I really believe that is what happened. Just trying to sort this all out in my head so the gears in my brain will quit grinding...

ETA: But, the drug deal ruse does make much more sense now that I think about it. It also ties in with the money scattered near KR's body, making it look like a drug deal gone bad. Just my very confused opinion...

 

[Ann99]

KR prob knew of that deal which may be why he was also killed. There are several reasons to me that KR may have been killed but that seems as good as any. He may have had product at his home the W's wanted to steal and did. Not going to get into naming all the reasons that come to mind.

What do you think that the ex BCI agent/now Police Captain I believe, will be testifying to on May 16th? The defense are the ones calling him but the prosecution agreed to it they said. Defense had said in the May 2nd hearing they would be calling him. Link to May 2nd hearing has been posted many times.

CO, please remind me, what is the subject - what does the Defense want to suppress? Is it the audio?
Defense has nothing to defend but is left only to attack the validity of the evidence, so I assume Defense wants to point out holes in the gathering of the evidence, chain of custody of evidence or the expertise of the witness.
That's really all Defense can do. Try to have evidence removed or struck down.

 

[Covert Operative]

CO, please remind me, what is the subject - what does the Defense want to suppress? Is it the audio?
Defense has nothing to defend but is left only to attack the validity of the evidence, so I assume Defense wants to point out holes in the gathering of the evidence, chain of custody of evidence or the expertise of the witness.
That's really all Defense can do. Try to have evidence removed or struck down.

There are two motions to suppress to be heard on that day. I am not sure if that is what the person will be testifying about or something else.
The two motions to suppress, audio and AW and JW testimony.

 

[Ann99]

There are two motions to suppress to be heard on that day. I am not sure if that is what the person will be testifying about or something else.
The two motions to suppress, audio and AW and JW testimony.

Could Defense want to attack AW and JW testimony by asking BCI Agent if certain portions of their testimony or representations made by those 2 jive with his observations of the scenes or the evidence.
Idk.
Maybe Defense will try to get the BCI Agent to say that he cant be sure about this or that ( whatever) and so the evidence is tainted or not factual. Or that the agent is not qualified.
IIRC wasn't there some small scandal thing that happened within BCI? maybe that will be brought up in relation to evidence.
GW4 Defense has nothing favorable on its side so it can only attack and discredit.
I guess Defense could ask if BCI Agent knows the exact shoes each LE and coroner, etc. was wearing at the crime scene, still trying to get shoe evidence thrown out.

 

[Covert Operative]

Could Defense want to attack AW and JW testimony by asking BCI Agent if certain portions of their testimony or representations made by those 2 jive with his observations of the scenes or the evidence.
Idk.
Maybe Defense will try to get the BCI Agent to say that he cant be sure about this or that ( whatever) and so the evidence is tainted or not factual. Or that the agent is not qualified.
IIRC wasn't there some small scandal thing that happened within BCI? maybe that will be brought up in relation to evidence.
GW4 Defense has nothing favorable on its side so it can only attack and discredit.
I guess Defense could ask if BCI Agent knows the exact shoes each LE and coroner, etc. was wearing at the crime scene, still trying to get shoe evidence thrown out.

All good thoughts. I really can't think of what reason they would have for him to testify. Seems an odd time to call him to testify, so maybe it does have something to do with the two motions, not sure what.

 

[Ann99]

I'm going from memory here, but wasn't there a slingshot purchase listed in a discovery document?

Just spitballing here, but is it possible what really happened was the slingshot was used to bust a window and thus bringing CRSR to the door--and the W4 are just making up the story about a fake drug deal ruse?

Not sure I really believe that is what happened. Just trying to sort this all out in my head so the gears in my brain will quit grinding...

ETA: But, the drug deal ruse does make much more sense now that I think about it. It also ties in with the money scattered near KR's body, making it look like a drug deal gone bad. Just my very confused opinion...

Ye, you're right, there was a couple sling shot type things purchased. It doesn't make lot of sense though to try to figure out how they were used if CR was expecting BW.
I cant image that CR expected Billy to bring along J and G just for discussing a deal. But something like what you said, i can image a scenario where BW is allowed to enter CR trailer to discuss the business at hand. Probably unarmed.
MO
CR maybe would have contained the dogs in a back room. Almost immediately, while the 2 were talking, maybe J and G, hiding outside used the sling shots against the window to alarm both CR and BILLY (who probably acted like he didn't know what was going on) but was very concerned to see who as out there.
Thus, a ruse to get CR and Billy to step outside to see what made the odd noise.
Billy would have had to quickly move aside for G4 to get a clear shot at Chris. It didn't quite work out as planned. Chris made it back into the trailer but so did B, J and G.
MO and theory only.

 

[Niner]

Here's what are in my notes regarding the next hearing coming up (5/16/22):


5/16/22 at 1pm - Hearing on Motion to Suppress. To be heard: Defendant's Motion #80, entitled "Defendant's motion to suppress testimony of Jake & Angela Wagner and to dismiss the death specifications & Defendant's Motion #81, entitled "Defendant's motion to suppress audio recordings.

 

[Nanasteele]

Yes this young woman is brave. I cannot imagine the horror and fear she experienced that night and living with The Hills Have Eyes family.

So scary! Bless her heart! I'm sure she relieved they are behind bars right not and praying they stay there for her & her sons sake!

 

[Nanasteele]

BBM

But mostly I can't make the jump from fist fight and guns drawn a week before the murders and crsr meeting bw unarmed the next week.

Have you ever had that friend or family member that has what is called a "hot temper" here in the south? Meaning they get very angry very easily and say and do things that they quickly regret and apologize for? We tend to look over these volatile tempered people and just wait patiently for them to cool down.

I am in no way saying this was the case with Billy and Chris , but it could be possible since there have been many people who have said these two men were long time friends, that Chris knew Billy was this way so he just reputably (no concrete fact) took the gun from Billy and took it all with a grain of salt knowing Billy would probably be calling to apologize in a day or two. This is just my opinion only and not based on any facts that have been presented in court.

JMO

I don't believe CRCR would agree to anything with them due to the fight and the issues HR was having with them! I bet CRCR told them to never come back ! Nothing out of Jakes or the others mouth is believable!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

it certainly doesnt change my opinion of crsr i dont consider weed a drug at all. im also not 100 percent sure this drug deal involved weed, a"lucrative" deal would most likely be pills. crsr seemed to have the weed thing all figured out doubt he needed bw to sell his bud for him. i am just spinning my wheels because any information that comes from the wagners about the crime really cant be corroborated because they killed everyone else who would have first hand knowledge. i didnt mean in anyway to disparage ac or suggest she was being underhanded or dishonest. im just going on the assumption that everything jw and aw say is maximized in their advantage. jw and aw certainly didnt come forward for a moral reaon, they dont feel guilty. it was a realistic cost benefit decision. jw knew he would be convicted and most likely get the dp. g4 is possibly the only person jw actually cares about. his entire proffer is slanted in g4s favor. the whole "g4 came so billy wouldnt kill jake after" sends out huge bs alarm bells. so all statements made by jw and aw should be weighted with these facts in mind. anything that could benefit g4 or hurt the rhodens should be viewed with healthy skepticism. seems to me that crsr drastically underestimated how serious this custody situation was. it wasnt just the one fight with bw remember all the messages and voicemails back and forth. he just did not think it was going to be killed over

BBM

it certainly doesnt change my opinion of crsr i dont consider weed a drug at all

In view of the fact that POTUS has mentioned making MJ legal on the federal level I don't think many people think MJ is a drug, no more than alcohol is a drug although whiskey was used commonly back in the day for pain.

im also not 100 percent sure this drug deal involved weed, a"lucrative" deal would most likely be pills.

No where has it ever been mentioned, in statements by DeWine and Reader, in MSM or in court that Chris was involved in any way with pills or anything other than an MJ grow operation. IMO to come to that conclusion or state otherwise without any proof would be incorrect. Many people sell MJ but do not sell any other drugs e,g, pills, meth ect.

because any information that comes from the wagners about the crime really cant be corroborated because they killed everyone else who would have first hand knowledge.

IMO I cannot discount the testimony that EW might give or what she may have heard because after watching the hearing again the "lucrative drug deal" was mentioned by AC in fairly close proximity to her speaking about EW's location. I am in no way going to assume, without fact, that information came from EW though as it has not been mentioned in court what the content of EW's testimony will be, only that she may be called as a witness.

the whole "g4 came so billy wouldnt kill jake after" sends out huge bs alarm bells

IMO I too, am calling BS on that one. But that was the defense's words not AC's so they may be relying on their client George's word as I have not read JW or AW's proffer yet so I cannot say that either stated this.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I don't believe CRCR would agree to anything with them due to the fight and the issues HR was having with them! I bet CRCR told them to never come back ! Nothing out of Jakes or the others mouth is believable!

BBM
due to the fight

At this point I am going to ask if there is a link to anything in MSM or public court documents or court hearings to verify there was actually a physical fight with guns drawn between Billy and Chris a week prior as I cannot find any in the media/timeline section.

I have seen an interview with Lenny in which he states deputies were called out the weekend before, but Lenny did not state what or who it was in connection to. There were several dust ups around the same time frame involving the R's e.g. the joyriders, the conflict involving Chris Jr and a couple of other people who are not POI's, IJ being one who comes to mind.

If anyone has a link or any verifiable fact such as court hearings to an actual fight with guns drawn I would really appreciate it, as I would like to hear or read this for myself.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm going from memory here, but wasn't there a slingshot purchase listed in a discovery document?

Just spitballing here, but is it possible what really happened was the slingshot was used to bust a window and thus bringing CRSR to the door--and the W4 are just making up the story about a fake drug deal ruse?

Not sure I really believe that is what happened. Just trying to sort this all out in my head so the gears in my brain will quit grinding...

ETA: But, the drug deal ruse does make much more sense now that I think about it. It also ties in with the money scattered near KR's body, making it look like a drug deal gone bad. Just my very confused opinion...

I also am going from memory here, but in the MSM photos of Chris Sr's trailer there were no broken out windows, although some of us thought we saw a round hole in one front window after someone on here enlarged the news photos. There was an open side window if I recall correctly though.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Ye, you're right, there was a couple sling shot type things purchased. It doesn't make lot of sense though to try to figure out how they were used if CR was expecting BW.
I cant image that CR expected Billy to bring along J and G just for discussing a deal. But something like what you said, i can image a scenario where BW is allowed to enter CR trailer to discuss the business at hand. Probably unarmed.
MO
CR maybe would have contained the dogs in a back room. Almost immediately, while the 2 were talking, maybe J and G, hiding outside used the sling shots against the window to alarm both CR and BILLY (who probably acted like he didn't know what was going on) but was very concerned to see who as out there.
Thus, a ruse to get CR and Billy to step outside to see what made the odd noise.
Billy would have had to quickly move aside for G4 to get a clear shot at Chris. It didn't quite work out as planned. Chris made it back into the trailer but so did B, J and G.
MO and theory only.

IMO

I thought the slingshots may have been bought in case the dogs, who, from what is known of dogs, have a very keen smell, ran over to the truck, in which case George or Jake may have shot something like a rock with the slingshots in another direction to make a noise to distract the dogs elsewhere and thus not clue in Chris that someone else was in the truck.

Just a random thought with no proof to back it up.

JMO

 

[Ann99]

I just now listened to the hearing again.
AC kinda mumbles it, i missed it the first time, but she actually names the person Billy Wagner claimed killed the R’s because as Billy said, CR cut that person out of a big drug deal. Thus the reason that person killed them all.
Did anyone else hear that? It is at 1:16:30 Thru 1:17:12 i would appreciate a second opinion. It may take a local to understand the name AC says.
Stunned BW would mention that name. That took balls or stupidity.

 

[Covert Operative]

I just now listened to the hearing again.
AC kinda mumbles it, i missed it the first time, but she actually names the person Billy Wagner claimed killed the R’s because as Billy said, CR cut that person out of a big drug deal. Thus the reason that person killed them all.
Did anyone else hear that? It is at 1:16:30 Thru 1:17:12 i would appreciate a second opinion. It may take a local to understand the name AC says.
Stunned BW would mention that name. That took balls or stupidity.

Yes.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I just now listened to the hearing again.
AC kinda mumbles it, i missed it the first time, but she actually names the person Billy Wagner claimed killed the R’s because as Billy said, CR cut that person out of a big drug deal. Thus the reason that person killed them all.
Did anyone else hear that? It is at 1:16:30 Thru 1:17:12 i would appreciate a second opinion. It may take a local to understand the name AC says.
Stunned BW would mention that name. That took balls or stupidity.

Looks like I was wrong, but yes I did hear it.

BTW: Thank you to the hard working mods who keep us straight on here about what can be posted. I appreciate you all.


JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I also am going from memory here, but in the MSM photos of Chris Sr's trailer there were no broken out windows, although some of us thought we saw a round hole in one front window after someone on here enlarged the news photos. There was an open side window if I recall correctly though.

JMO

I'm going from memory here, but wasn't there a slingshot purchase listed in a discovery document?

Just spitballing here, but is it possible what really happened was the slingshot was used to bust a window and thus bringing CRSR to the door--and the W4 are just making up the story about a fake drug deal ruse?

Not sure I really believe that is what happened. Just trying to sort this all out in my head so the gears in my brain will quit grinding...

ETA: But, the drug deal ruse does make much more sense now that I think about it. It also ties in with the money scattered near KR's body, making it look like a drug deal gone bad. Just my very confused opinion...

Sling shot could not be used in murders.
Order wasn't shipped from private seller until after FW made payment on 5-7-16. Murders were on April 21 and April 22.

She bought other items from this seller at the same time totalling $379.99.
Slingshot was $43.42

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges

From what I recall Canepa saying, the drug deal was totally fake.

 

[Puzzles8]

Sling shot could not be used in murders.
Order wasn't shipped from private seller until after FW made payment on 5-7-16. Murders were on April 21 and April 22.

She bought other items from this seller at the same time totalling $379.99.
Slingshot was $43.42

Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges

From what I recall Canepa saying, the drug deal was totally fake.

Might have been a replacement for something used (and disposed of) from the crimes.
I have wondered if the slingshot was used to shoot out the motion sensor/light at CRsr's. Maybe used to draw CRsr outside.

JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I love the newness and freshness of the updated look. I am one who enjoys change though. After a while the same ole, same ole becomes boring MOO. It now has a crisper look.. thanks Trish!!!