GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

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Chris_p_bacon said:
Wow. A lot of information from this last hearing. I am just wondering if pehaps the BW going to CRsrs trailer that night under the guise of a drug deal is part of the reason the boys died their hair. At least I think it was both boys died their hair, but can't seem to find the exact reference to it. I also wondered for a long time if both BW and the Rhodens had business dealings in the Drug business. This explains a lot of things to me, like why the wagners would not just petition the court for custody and mention the girl was being raised in a grow operation. Thats because the wagners were in on it. I also wonder if it also explains why the wagners co-mingled funds, as a way to launder money obtained through cash-drug transactions. Would most of the wagners income come from unreportable cash transactions? There for not reported to the IRS, therefore not tracked by the Social Security for any retirement. In the long run is this the root cause of Angela wanting custody and to be called Mommy so bad. I would have to look it up if Social Security would cover such a situation. At any rate, I think there was a lot of info from this last hearing.
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"At least I think it was both boys died their hair, but can't seem to find the exact reference to it."

Time Stamp 1:52 - Scheiderer testimony at George's Bond Hearing

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

Canepa:
Did you also receive information that both Jake and George dyed their hair the week of the homicides?

Scheiderer:
Yes.

Canepa:
And who did you get that information from?

Scheiderer:
Several subjects but specifically there was a female that had taken a vehicle there to be worked on so she had seen just prior to the murder and then 2 days after the murders and noticed that their hair was dyed and she also said at that time that they had started locking the gate to their farm which had never been locked before.

Canepa:
OK. And did Chris Newcomb also verify that they had dyed their hair that week?

Scheiderer:
Yes.

See photo:
Defiance Farms (George 4's hair dyed black) April 30th 2016

 
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Chris_p_bacon said:
Wow. A lot of information from this last hearing. I am just wondering if pehaps the BW going to CRsrs trailer that night under the guise of a drug deal is part of the reason the boys died their hair. At least I think it was both boys died their hair, but can't seem to find the exact reference to it. I also wondered for a long time if both BW and the Rhodens had business dealings in the Drug business. This explains a lot of things to me, like why the wagners would not just petition the court for custody and mention the girl was being raised in a grow operation. Thats because the wagners were in on it. I also wonder if it also explains why the wagners co-mingled funds, as a way to launder money obtained through cash-drug transactions. Would most of the wagners income come from unreportable cash transactions? There for not reported to the IRS, therefore not tracked by the Social Security for any retirement. In the long run is this the root cause of Angela wanting custody and to be called Mommy so bad. I would have to look it up if Social Security would cover such a situation. At any rate, I think there was a lot of info from this last hearing.
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Since Hannah was working, her daughter would be eligible to draw Social Security off her after her death.

BBM

Would most of the wagners income come from unreportable cash transactions? There for not reported to the IRS,

If they had it in a bank account I think it would be reported to the IRS. Maybe some OP's with banking experience could weigh in on this?

JMO
 
IType said:
There is one question that keeps coming to the front of my mind. I realize no one here knows for sure, but I would be interested in others' opinions. How on earth and why did AW and BW become so controlling over their sons' lives?

I could be wrong, but I don't have the impression that BW or AW were raised in this cult-like (IMO) way. AW didn't live under the same roof with her extended family when she reached adulthood. She even went into the military at some point. BW worked for his parents; but he, his wife and children didn't live with his parents and have to help support them.

Why did BW and AW want to control every aspect of their children's lives?
Click to expand...

IMHO, I think it goes back to FTW and husband and maybe further. This was just how it was done in their family and the root I believe had to do with the distorted interpretation of the Bible by someone and they were followers of that. I was not raised in the fundamentalist church but know some who were and they and their parents were brain washed by someone who interpreted the Bible so that it was man's word and not God's word and people fell for it. These same God fearing people could be the most spiteful, hateful and corrupt people on earth.
 
Covert Operative said:
I think that is possible or could be possible that a red truck may have been seen on some camera somewhere but was not a good pic. Supposedly JM did not own the truck at the time of the murders and seems it was said it was a year later he got it. LE could have thought that he owned it and had it hidden though.
Pike County murders: Father of victim angered by investigation (daytondailynews.com)
Among them: Why did investigators seek to track James Manley’s vehicle? Leonard Manley said the vehicle did not belong to his son the day of the murders, but couldn’t remember who owned it then.
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Yes, I remember it was thought a truck was seen on UHR that night on a neighbors game camera.
So many red trucks in the area.
LE may have discounted the statement by LM that JM did not own the truck, as in Pike County, and general area, so many vehicles are traded, sold, without proper legal change of registration, and many vehicles are passed around or borrowed among families and friends as needed.
LE may have known JM himself didn't actually own the truck, but because of local practices, still suspected JM.
So, since it all apparently got straightened out in the end, the question remaining is - I wonder if this was part of the W plan to frame the Manleys.
MO Now, it seems it was a frame up. Pretty complicated if the dyed hair was part of it too. Doesn't JM have very dark hair

I wonder how the truck was modified and who did that work.
 
Ann99 said:
Yes, I remember it was thought a truck was seen on UHR that night on a neighbors game camera.
So many red trucks in the area.
LE may have discounted the statement by LM that JM did not own the truck, as in Pike County, and general area, so many vehicles are traded, sold, without proper legal change of registration, and many vehicles are passed around or borrowed among families and friends as needed.
LE may have known JM himself didn't actually own the truck, but because of local practices, still suspected JM.
So, since it all apparently got straightened out in the end, the question remaining is - I wonder if this was part of the W plan to frame the Manleys.
MO Now, it seems it was a frame up. Pretty complicated if the dyed hair was part of it too. Doesn't JM have very dark hair

I wonder how the truck was modified and who did that work.
Click to expand...

Yes, if JM really did not own that truck til a year later, then the W's would not have been able to make it look like a truck of JM's unless they knew that he was going to buy that truck or they knew he really did own a truck but had it hidden or was not driving it, is what I had meant. A year later after JM started driving that truck perhaps the W's did try to lead LE to that truck somehow.

She said in the hearing that G4 modified the truck.

The truck JM had was a 1997 Chevrolet and the trucks on discovery are a Ford F150 and GMC Sierra. (Those might could be modified to look similar to JM red Chevrolet truck or do look very similar.)

-The warrant was issued April 21 and gave authorities 45 days to track James. T. Manley’s 1997 Chevrolet K2500 truck.
Pike County warrant: Investigators put GPS tracker on truck of Rhoden victim's brother (cincinnati.com)
 
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Thanks for the various replies to my question about AW and BW being so controlling of their sons' lives. I think money is definitely part of the issue, and religion could certainly be a factor I hadn't considered well enough.

But now I have another question, clarification really. I am not able to watch the entire hearing. I've seen posts from a couple people about the children being trained to steal. Which children? GW4 and JW or--and I really pray my assumption here is wrong--the two grandchildren? If it is the grandchildren, these people are even more screwed up than I thought! Thankfully those two kids haven't been under the influence of the W family since the day of the arrests.

JMO
 
IType said:
Thanks for the various replies to my question about AW and BW being so controlling of their sons' lives. I think money is definitely part of the issue, and religion could certainly be a factor I hadn't considered well enough.

But now I have another question, clarification really. I am not able to watch the entire hearing. I've seen posts from a couple people about the children being trained to steal. Which children? GW4 and JW or--and I really pray my assumption here is wrong--the two grandchildren? If it is the grandchildren, these people are even more screwed up than I thought! Thankfully those two kids haven't been under the influence of the W family since the day of the arrests.

JMO
Click to expand...
I just recall Canepa referring to JW child, that he was preparing to teach her those things. He would train her the way they had been brought up to do those things. Not those exact words. Even though she may not have said both, I would say it would be assumed.
 
rescuemom said:
IMHO, I think it goes back to FTW and husband and maybe further. This was just how it was done in their family and the root I believe had to do with the distorted interpretation of the Bible by someone and they were followers of that. I was not raised in the fundamentalist church but know some who were and they and their parents were brain washed by someone who interpreted the Bible so that it was man's word and not God's word and people fell for it. These same God fearing people could be the most spiteful, hateful and corrupt people on earth.
Click to expand...

Good point, I think some of it could go back to AW upbringing also, I do not mean the religion part though.
 
Covert Operative said:
Yes, if JM really did not own that truck til a year later, then the W's would not have been able to make it look like a truck of JM's unless they knew that he was going to buy that truck or they knew he really did own a truck but had it hidden or was not driving it, is what I had meant. A year later after JM started driving that truck perhaps the W's did try to lead LE to that truck somehow.

She said in the hearing that G4 modified the truck.

The truck JM had was a 1997 Chevrolet and the trucks on discovery are a Ford F150 and GMC Sierra. (Those might could be modified to look similar to JM red Chevrolet truck or do look very similar.)

-The warrant was issued April 21 and gave authorities 45 days to track James. T. Manley’s 1997 Chevrolet K2500 truck.
Pike County warrant: Investigators put GPS tracker on truck of Rhoden victim's brother (cincinnati.com)
Click to expand...

I think the frames and bodies of Ford and Chevrolet vehicles are made by GMC, then Ford and Chevrolet tack on their own unique additions. Or at least I know it used to be that way years ago.

Maybe someone who knows more than me about autos could weigh in on this as I could be wrong.

JMO
 
IType said:
Thanks for the various replies to my question about AW and BW being so controlling of their sons' lives. I think money is definitely part of the issue, and religion could certainly be a factor I hadn't considered well enough.

But now I have another question, clarification really. I am not able to watch the entire hearing. I've seen posts from a couple people about the children being trained to steal. Which children? GW4 and JW or--and I really pray my assumption here is wrong--the two grandchildren? If it is the grandchildren, these people are even more screwed up than I thought! Thankfully those two kids haven't been under the influence of the W family since the day of the arrests.

JMO
Click to expand...
It was little S who was specifically mentioned but implied that little B was also being taught to steal gas and shoplift I believe.

JMO
 
what do you think ac meant by "george modified the vehicle(murder truck) to be able to stow away" could they have (jw g4) in the bed of the truck when they tried to kill crsr from far away? ive seen the taliban use those toyota pick ups as tactical vehicles. did all wags come in same vehicle? what about the power line roads? lets consider what the wags were most afraid of/worst case scenario with crsr. 1. he is armed when he meets billy 2. hes able to get the upper hand in close quarters inside his trailer 3. weapons stashed inside or a "panic room" 4. alerting fr and calling for help 5. getting tipped off the deal was fake 6. dogs 7 get a shot off
what was the advantage of shooting from far away? maybe night vision? crsr not able to return fire? just having a hard time understanding why crsr let his guard down. like johnny b said maybe its all a big lie to cast crsr in a bad light due to drugs etc. something just doesnt compute here
 
Piffcat said:
what do you think ac meant by "george modified the vehicle(murder truck) to be able to stow away" could they have (jw g4) in the bed of the truck when they tried to kill crsr from far away? ive seen the taliban use those toyota pick ups as tactical vehicles. did all wags come in same vehicle? what about the power line roads? lets consider what the wags were most afraid of/worst case scenario with crsr. 1. he is armed when he meets billy 2. hes able to get the upper hand in close quarters inside his trailer 3. weapons stashed inside or a "panic room" 4. alerting fr and calling for help 5. getting tipped off the deal was fake 6. dogs 7 get a shot off
what was the advantage of shooting from far away? maybe night vision? crsr not able to return fire? just having a hard time understanding why crsr let his guard down. like johnny b said maybe its all a big lie to cast crsr in a bad light due to drugs etc. something just doesnt compute here
Click to expand...

It may be a lie from JW or whoever, but Canepa put it out there in the court, seemingly as a fact, so I would say she believes that the fake drug deal is what happened.
Would be safer to shoot him from outside just in case he was suspicious, armed or had backup in his house with him.
I thought they may have put some type of camper, cover or tool box on the bed of the truck they could hide in and possibly shoot from. If it was a truck with a back seat, which is probably was not, perhaps something could be done to modify the back seat to hide under it. The nightscope purchased would help with that. Those are all I can think of.
 
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Ann99 said:
I thought it was T, and wondered if it was Bethel, only because of the unbelievable remoteness of the Bethel address. To truly understand her horror and fear one would have to realize how far she had to ride in the complete darkness on small rural winding roads. And being so close to FWF.
I don't know where there was a gas station nearby.
Anyone know a possible gas station in the vicinity?
My reason for asking these details is that this woman lived in greater fear and danger than I had realized and did more heroic-like things than are immediately clear to us. She really did have to save herself, save her own life.
If I were T and had a choice, I would not talk to the defense at all.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree it was Bethel. Didn't the boys "purchase" the Peterson farm 7/2014?

This is IIRC. JMO
 
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