OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

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Caylee Advocate

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Your quote:

I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

Yes the defense is saying George had no intent to kill, quote from hearing:

"The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

Defense admits the prosecution has George as being complicit in all the charges but George had no intent towards any of it."


 Confusing. How can you be complicit without the intent to be complicit?

If he had no intent to kill he would have stopped them from killing, he wouldn't have let them plan it etc...

I don't get the no intent defense. He did what he did. It's his actions that matter.

If he only went along to protect Jake, I guess that might imply he would kill or at least shoot his Dad. Why not try to stop it before it got to that point. I keep wanting to know why it was said (sorry no link) that this all had to happen in this time frame. Does anyone recall this? IIRC, they needed it to happen before such and such a date. GRRR I hate when articles are scrubbed.

:mad:
 

Warwick7

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I disagree. FW was in fact charged with obstruction and perjury in connection with this case:


Later she had her charges dropped without prejudice. That is an important distinction between with and without prejudice. In legal terminology without prejudice means the case is not over, and charges can be refiled.
Charges can be refiled.
 

Puzzles8

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Charges can be refiled.
ITA, FW still might be recharged for Grand Jury perjury. I do believe FW is guilty of that.

I do question though whether FW had foreknowledge of the murders. Right now I am leaning towards the fact she did not.

IMO the W4 pulled in a number of people both before and after the murders in their attempt of establishing an alibi.

JMO
 
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Niner

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Tuesday, August 16th:
*Jury - Individual Voir Dire continues (Day 7) (@ 9am ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. (16), Hanna Mae (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (37). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – for *George Washington Wagner IV (27/now 30) (Jakes’ bro) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged (11/15/18) & arraigned (11/28/18) with 8 counts aggravated murder, (plus gun specifications on each), 1 count of 1st degree conspiracy, 4 counts of 1st degree aggravated burglary, 1 count of 5th degree unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, 3 counts of 3rd degree evidence tampering, 1 count of 5th degree forgery, 1 count of 5th degree unauthorized use of computer or telecommunications, 1 count of 4th degree interception of wire, oral or electronic communication, 1 count of 5th degree obstructing justice, & 1 count of 1st degree engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. Plead not guilty. Held without bond. DA will seek the DP. Per Jake’s plea agreement, DP is off the table if his testimony is truthful.
Trial set to begin on 8/29/22 (maybe!) with general voir dire for the jury, opening statements, evidence, etc. (Trial is scheduled for 30 days).
8/15/22 through 8/19/22
- each day beginning at 9am - individual voir dire.
8/29/22 at 9am – (maybe!) beginning of trial, including general voir dire for the jury, opening statements, evidence & so forth. The jury trial is scheduled for 30 days. 37 death qualified jurors seated as of 8/15/22.

Crime info & court hearings from 11/28/18 thru 7/27/22 including Jury Questionnaires (Day 1-3) 7/5 thru 7/7/22 & Jury Questionnaire Completion (Day 1-3) 7/12 to 7/14/22 & 8/1/22 to 8/5/22 & Jury Voir Dire (Day 1-5) 8/8 to 8/12/22 reference post #818 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bers-wagner-family-arrested-69.623311/page-41

8/15/22 Monday, Jury Voir Dire Day 6: 37 potential "death qualified" jurors are now in the pool. The hope is to find 40 to 60 from which a final jury will be selected. Those 40-60, once determined they will return to the Pike Co. Courthouse on 8/29/22 for group questioning. Each side will then "strike" jurors to determine the final jury. Jury voir dire continues on 8/16/22.
*George Washington Wagner III (47/now 51)Last pretrial hearing on 2/1/22.
*Edward Jacob “Jake” Wagner (26/now 29) – Plead guilty (4/22/21) to all charges & will be sentenced to 8 consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole & will testify in the trials.
*Angela Jo Wagner (48/now 51) – 9/10/21: Plead guilty to a plea deal to Counts 9 thru 22, Counts 1-8 were dismissed. Will be sentenced to 30 years in prison with no early release & has to testify against others at trial.
*Rita Jo Newcomb (65/now 69) – Last Motions hearing on 12/2/19 entered a plea of guilty. Expected to testify in the trials.
*Fredericka Carol Wagner (76/now 80) – 6/26/19 Charges were dismissed without prejudice.
 

Covert Operative

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If he only went along to protect Jake, I guess that might imply he would kill or at least shoot his Dad. Why not try to stop it before it got to that point. I keep wanting to know why it was said (sorry no link) that this all had to happen in this time frame. Does anyone recall this? IIRC, they needed it to happen before such and such a date. GRRR I hate when articles are scrubbed.

:mad:
I remember several rumors of people speculating why it had to happen at a certain time but I do not remember seeing anything in articles stating that.
 

Tiff23fr

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I remember several rumors of people speculating why it had to happen at a certain time but I do not remember seeing anything in articles stating that.

I have often wondered if it was related to this:

Canepa said Jake Wagner pressured Rhoden to put his name on her second child's birth certificate, even though he was not the father.


Either way, in my opinion, I believe it was as close to the date she came home from the hospital as possible. She did bring another child into this world. That child WAS NOT Jake Wagners, and I feel the Wagner ego and mind was not willing to accept that. I feel HR made it clear (in her own way) that she was not property, and no one would own her. Her body, and the fruits it would be used for were not Jake or Angela’s to control.
 
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Covert Operative

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I have often wondered if it was related to this:

Canepa said Jake Wagner pressured Rhoden to put his name on her second child's birth certificate, even though he was not the father.


Either way, in my opinion, I believe it was as close to the date she came home from the hospital as possible. She did bring another child into this world. That child WAS NOT Jake Wagners, and I feel the Wagner ego and mind was not willing to accept that. I feel HR made it clear (in her own way) that she was not property, and no one would own her. Her body, and the fruits it would be used for were not Jake or Angela’s to control.
I had felt like the fb fight that had gone on after the birth and was public had really pissed JW/The W's off and embarrassed JW. They then decided they were going to do it very soon.
I feel like it was a time picked when they knew all of their targets would be in their homes sleeping during a time frame that they needed. May be hard with several in a family to get the targeted people all home in bed at a specific time.
 

Piffcat

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theres a term in tv show reviews called jumping the shark. refers to an episode/storyline which is so outlandish it ruins the shows credability going forward. to me, jakes statement about g4 going to stop billy from killing jake is the ultimate shark jump. it signals to me that jakes proffer is just one more bs scheme designed by jake and angela to "win" 3 guns were used in the murders, killing jake and leaving him at the scene to immitate a murder/suicide makes 0 sense to this narrative. if billy wanted to kill jake outside of the murder scenes he would have ample opportunities going forward considering how insulated they are. i cannot wait to see g4s reaction when his house of lies collapses on top of this evil delusional creature
 

Covert Operative

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theres a term in tv show reviews called jumping the shark. refers to an episode/storyline which is so outlandish it ruins the shows credability going forward. to me, jakes statement about g4 going to stop billy from killing jake is the ultimate shark jump. it signals to me that jakes proffer is just one more bs scheme designed by jake and angela to "win" 3 guns were used in the murders, killing jake and leaving him at the scene to immitate a murder/suicide makes 0 sense to this narrative. if billy wanted to kill jake outside of the murder scenes he would have ample opportunities going forward considering how insulated they are. i cannot wait to see g4s reaction when his house of lies collapses on top of this evil delusional creature
He would want to kill JW to make it look like he was the only killer, it would take suspicion off of them. It would make perfect sense to me if it happened to be true, which is doubtful. Would still not excuse G4 participation.
Three guns were used at the murder/s but that does not mean that 3 were going to be or supposed to be used when they were planning, if things had gone to plan. Once things went south at CRsr, if there had been another plan it went away fast.
Why would he kill JW later?
 
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Covert Operative

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BW
08/15/2022AGREED ENTRY GRANTING MOTION TO CONTINUE HEARING ON MOTIONS AND JURY TRIAL -- THE HEARINGS ON MOTIONS PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 9, 2022 AT 1:00PM AND THE JURY TRIAL PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED TO COMMENCE ON MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 2022 AT 8:30AM EACH SHALL BERESCHEDULED TO A NEW DATE AND TIME TO BE DETERMINED BY THE COURT
These two dates were never officially listed on the docket to my knowledge.
 
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Berrybell

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I had felt like the fb fight that had gone on after the birth and was public had really pissed JW/The W's off and embarrassed JW. They then decided they were going to do it very soon.
I feel like it was a time picked when they knew all of their targets would be in their homes sleeping during a time frame that they needed. May be hard with several in a family to get the targeted people all home in bed at a specific time.
I agree CO, the public written fight between HR, FR and HG was a huge slap in JWs face. HR made very clear that she knew who the father of the baby was, and so did FR and HG. No one in her family doubted who the father was and it WASN"T JW!!! I do not believe HR continued to have an intimate relationship with JW after she broke it off, IMO he lied about there being a chance he was the baby's father.
 

Covert Operative

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I agree CO, the public written fight between HR, FR and HG was a huge slap in JWs face. HR made very clear that she knew who the father of the baby was, and so did FR and HG. No one in her family doubted who the father was and it WASN"T JW!!! I do not believe HR continued to have an intimate relationship with JW after she broke it off, IMO he lied about there being a chance he was the baby's father.
Yes, there was a lot of information in that. It told who the father was and who the acting father was going to be and it was not JW. Might have pushed some buttons in higher gear and the W's decided they would not be waiting any longer. There may be some other reason they acted that particular night, I hope and think we will learn why they claim they did it that night.
 

justtrish

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there have been some mainstream news articles now that trial is almost here. while reading the comments alot of anger and disgust towards the wagners. not surprising, but sometimes only seeing the reactions from defense lawyers can lul a defendant to sleep. if g4 goes with a defense which tries to minimize his involvment, guilt, or culbability its going to blow up very badly for him. when people read about this crime they get angry, livid in fact. the jury is going to do much more then read a summary article. if jw and aw mess around on the stand- there is a real possibility of the death penalty from a jury. good riddance
If George really didn't have any intent and was roped into this for fear of being harmed or for fear that Jake would be harmed by Billy, then George should have been the one to come forward with information and get a deal. That would have been more believable then because daddy and mommy are in jail so no reason to fear them anymore. Why not come forward and say, I went along with this because I was afraid, but I didn't want anyone to die. I think the defense strategy will blow up on them as you said!
 

justtrish

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theres a term in tv show reviews called jumping the shark. refers to an episode/storyline which is so outlandish it ruins the shows credability going forward. to me, jakes statement about g4 going to stop billy from killing jake is the ultimate shark jump. it signals to me that jakes proffer is just one more bs scheme designed by jake and angela to "win" 3 guns were used in the murders, killing jake and leaving him at the scene to immitate a murder/suicide makes 0 sense to this narrative. if billy wanted to kill jake outside of the murder scenes he would have ample opportunities going forward considering how insulated they are. i cannot wait to see g4s reaction when his house of lies collapses on top of this evil delusional creature
I can actually see this narrative being true. We know that George and Jake were homeschooled and basically kept in this cult like family setting even after adulthood. Seems these brothers were manipulated and used a lot of their childhood. I recall property being in their names and I might be remembering wrong so I'll go look, but I feel like their names were on things because of shady dealings with the parents or grandparents. I just see a family that was intent on family above anything and everything else. Often these types of dynamics include intimidation to comply with the way things are. I'd be really interested in George's exs input and Jakes wife's (ex wife) input on how things went day to day. This is no excuse for what happened, but there are people so evil that they manipulate and intimidate their own children to get what they want. Maybe it was an actual fear of being killed based on past acts Billy did. Maybe just seeing and knowing what that parents is capable of and feeling like they wouldn't hesitate to kill a child to keep that unit in tact just seems possible. Might not have been a statement where Billy said I will kill you. I mean if Angela came up with this plan and Billy and her worked out some details and then tells the boys, imagine knowing your parents are serious about this and would kill this family to get control of the child involved. Not saying Jake is 100% truthful because I don't believe that. I do think it's possible both boys had a real fear of their parents.
 

Nanasteele

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I agree CO, the public written fight between HR, FR and HG was a huge slap in JWs face. HR made very clear that she knew who the father of the baby was, and so did FR and HG. No one in her family doubted who the father was and it WASN"T JW!!! I do not believe HR continued to have an intimate relationship with JW after she broke it off, IMO he lied about there being a chance he was the baby's father.
I don't feel HR had relationship with JW after she left and it was killing him that she had a child by someone else! Mad at HG because she fixed them up and messed everything up for him and HR!
 

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G4
08/16/2022SUBPOENAS ISSUED TO BRETT HATFIELD; SHAUN WATSON; LT ADAM BALL; DONALD STONE; LUKE RHODEN; TIM DICKERSON; JAMES MANLEY; APRIL MANLEY; DR. KESSLER, CORONER; EMMA MORGAN; CHIEF DEPUTY CORONER, KAREN LOOMAN, DO.O; BILLY MORGAN; BOBBY JO MANLEY; DR. CATHERINE FARINET; SA ED HUNTER; SA SHANE HANSHAW; SA GEORGE STALEY; SA TODD FORTNER; LT BRYAN WHITE; SAS JOSHUA DURST; KENNETH DICK, INV; SHERIFF TRACY EVANS Attorney: JUNK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, ROBERT
 

rescuemom

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Are JW and AW going to be able to testify according to their proffers in order to not have DP reinstated? Face to face with G4, God and everyone else??? The truth isn't in either of them and it is second nature for them to lie and manipulate, IMHO.
 

rescuemom

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G4
08/16/2022SUBPOENAS ISSUED TO BRETT HATFIELD; SHAUN WATSON; LT ADAM BALL; DONALD STONE; LUKE RHODEN; TIM DICKERSON; JAMES MANLEY; APRIL MANLEY; DR. KESSLER, CORONER; EMMA MORGAN; CHIEF DEPUTY CORONER, KAREN LOOMAN, DO.O; BILLY MORGAN; BOBBY JO MANLEY; DR. CATHERINE FARINET; SA ED HUNTER; SA SHANE HANSHAW; SA GEORGE STALEY; SA TODD FORTNER; LT BRYAN WHITE; SAS JOSHUA DURST; KENNETH DICK, INV; SHERIFF TRACY EVANS Attorney: JUNK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, ROBERT
Will Charlie Reader get a subpoena?? or has it been issued already?? TIA
 

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I have often wondered if it was related to this:

Canepa said Jake Wagner pressured Rhoden to put his name on her second child's birth certificate, even though he was not the father.


Either way, in my opinion, I believe it was as close to the date she came home from the hospital as possible. She did bring another child into this world. That child WAS NOT Jake Wagners, and I feel the Wagner ego and mind was not willing to accept that. I feel HR made it clear (in her own way) that she was not property, and no one would own her. Her body, and the fruits it would be used for were not Jake or Angela’s to control.

I have often wondered about the timing of the murders also, according to Canepa:

Canepa said she (Hanna) signed her death warrant by saying she would never sign, "they will have to kill me first."

And Canepa said that when Angela showed this Facebook messenger conversation to Jake they killed her only 4 months later.

I think the timing was simply based on when they were ready to do it. I mean once they decided to do it they started preparing and bought the murder kit items and then when they were ready they made sure Hanna had delivered her baby, not wanting to kill her while pregnant.

So they were ready to do it as soon as Hanna got home from the hospital and then set up the fake drug deal with Chris as well as spying on the Rhodens making sure they were home that night.

So I think it was, ok, let's vote on this, ok, we are going to do it, let's start getting ready then do it as soon as possible. As soon as possible was right after Hanna had her baby. They specifically picked the time right after Hanna had her baby because they were ready at that time to do it.

They saw the Facebook message, voted, planned, then did it as soon as they could. The soonest they could do it was after Hanna had her baby.

If Hanna had not been pregnant they probably would have done it sooner.

But we don't know for sure how much of Hanna's being pregnant with another man's baby influenced their vote to kill her. Had she never gotten pregnant would it have made a difference?

This was about her not signing any papers for Jake's daughter, it wasn't about the new baby, so I think they would have killed her anyway. Possibly sooner.
 
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