OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

Piffcat

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the hide and shoot thing def lines up with the 7.62, a high speed bullet with more powder, but actually not too much bigger diameter wise then the pistols. thats what alot of people misunderstand about assault rifle type weapons, the explosive speed velocity and force wrecks havoc even if not "big". g4 was/is an avid marksman, he bought the night scope as well. i cant see any situation where he did not fire that rifle. but maybe he missed. and thats what all the cute language is about with jake
 

Berrybell

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I still say, if this goes to Trial, and I hope it does so we can learn more about what happen. That having your future (Life) hanging on, if JW or AW tells the truth. They will have the Death Penalty reinstated. When more then 1 person, is trying to tell the same lie, the lie will unravel. They already are saying JW, contradicted himself in his proffer. All my opinion But the look on #4 face when he realizes his attorney had one of them admit they did not tell the truth in their testimony.
And the death penalty is now back on the table. I hope it is JW so we can see the smirk turn to a frown.
I agree it will be hard to keep the lie straight once they are cross examined by the prosecution. In my honest opinion I think GW did shoot some of the victims, I think JW & his mommy are lying to protect GW.
 

Cool Cats

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That was done with evidence, also. The evidence sealed and the order to seal the evidence sealed.
 

Cool Cats

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the hide and shoot thing def lines up with the 7.62, a high speed bullet with more powder, but actually not too much bigger diameter wise then the pistols. thats what alot of people misunderstand about assault rifle type weapons, the explosive speed velocity and force wrecks havoc even if not "big". g4 was/is an avid marksman, he bought the night scope as well. i cant see any situation where he did not fire that rifle. but maybe he missed. and thats what all the cute language is about with jake

Very interesting. I never thought of that, that maybe George did actually shoot but missed, thus, all the hoopla about George not shooting anyone.

If this were the case then I suspect George shot at Chris Sr. from outside his home. Maybe even was the one who shot the bullet through the floor into the dirt under the house.

They say George didn't shoot anybody but they do not say that George did not shoot AT anybody.

My feeling is that George did shoot someone, possibly Gary, and that mom and brother are covering up. I just read that the lawyers want to distance George from the crime as far as possible and to say he shot nobody and had no intent are 2 ways to do this.

Change of venue in Wagner murder trial denied by Pike County Judge Prosecutors said George Wagner will “try to distance himself from the heinous crimes.”

Also add on:


1.) George wasn't sopose to go out that night.
2.) George went at the last minute to protect Jake from Billy.
3.) George tried to talk them out of the murders.

In documents filed last week, defense attorneys cited Jake Wagner’s confession. They said it contained information that his brother “was not supposed to accompany Jake and his father and only went along at the ‘last second’ to protect Jake from their father.”

They added that George Wagner “tried to talk [his family members] out of these murders.”

Canepa said the defense attorneys cherrypicked snippets from Jake Wagner’s detailed statement. She said the confession was clear: “He implicated his brother.”

Also add on trying to get Motions thrown out.

1.) Shoe print expert.
2.) Other Acts.
3.) Jake and Angela's testimony.
4.) Change to a different venue out of Pike County.
5.) Motion and order to seal Jury list.

Docket - WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON


The Special Prosecuting Attorney further indicated that the State of Ohio has provided the Defendant with information concerning all potential witnesses, including recorded statements of several potential witnesses, including any agreements between the State of Ohio and any potential witnesses in exchange for testimony, and including any information as to persons whom the defense may refer to as "informants," but that the State of Ohio did not think that in the present action there are any "informants," in the traditional sense that the term is used.

In response to the Court's inquiry of defense counsel concerning any specific allegations by the defense of deficiencies in the State of Ohio's provision of "Brady or informant discovery," counsel for the Defendant indicated that the defense desires to interview Elizabeth Freeman, but that the State of Ohio has not provided the defense with an address for Elizabeth Freeman and the defense does not know how to contact her.

Special Prosecuting attorney Canepa responded that the State of Ohio does not have an exact address for Elizabeth Freeman as of the time of the hearing, but that the State does intend to locate Elizabeth Freeman in order to serve her with a subpoena to appear as a potential witness at trial, and that the State of Ohio will make reasonable effort to have Elizabeth Freeman available for an interview by defense counsel prior to trial.

Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa further argued that Elizabeth Freeman is not a person whose identify has been unknown to the Defendant and that the State of Ohio has identified her to the defense as a prospective witness and has provided the defense with recordings of her statements.
 
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RAISINISBACK

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O/T

I know this is off topic but it is with great sadness that I share that one of my clients was a victim of a mass shooting in St Francis Medical complex in Tulsa OK yesterday. He was 73 years old, ex military, retiring after 27 years of service and 1 tour in Vietnam, always laughing and joking when he came into the office. A really nice man who had been married 55 years to his lovely wife. He was dressed only in a hospital gown and with nothing but his bravery faced a gunman who was armed with an AR-15. He blocked the door of the exam room stopping the gunman from entering the waiting room where his wife, and other patients with their family members, some of them small children, were waiting to see the Dr. Him, the Dr and the gunman were all found in the exam room with William's body still blocking the door. He served his country all his life and served his country yesterday with his last breath. A true Hero.

R.I.P. William Love.
 

Dudly

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Very interesting. I never thought of that, that maybe George did actually shoot but missed, thus, all the hoopla about George not shooting anyone.

If this were the case then I suspect George shot at Chris Sr. from outside his home. Maybe even was the one who shot the bullet through the floor into the dirt under the house.

They say George didn't shoot anybody but they do not say that George did not shoot AT anybody.

My feeling is that George did shoot someone, possibly Gary, and that mom and brother are covering up. I just read that the lawyers want to distance George from the crime as far as possible and to say he shot nobody and had no intent are 2 ways to do this.

Change of venue in Wagner murder trial denied by Pike County Judge Prosecutors said George Wagner will “try to distance himself from the heinous crimes.”

Also add on:


1.) George wasn't sopose to go out that night.
2.) George went at the last minute to protect Jake from Billy.
3.) George tried to talk them out of the murders.

In documents filed last week, defense attorneys cited Jake Wagner’s confession. They said it contained information that his brother “was not supposed to accompany Jake and his father and only went along at the ‘last second’ to protect Jake from their father.”

They added that George Wagner “tried to talk [his family members] out of these murders.”

Canepa said the defense attorneys cherrypicked snippets from Jake Wagner’s detailed statement. She said the confession was clear: “He implicated his brother.”

Also add on trying to get Motions thrown out.

1.) Shoe print expert.
2.) Other Acts.
3.) Jake and Angela's testimony.
4.) Change to a different venue out of Pike County.
5.) Motion and order to seal Jury list.

Docket - WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON


The Special Prosecuting Attorney further indicated that the State of Ohio has provided the Defendant with information concerning all potential witnesses, including recorded statements of several potential witnesses, including any agreements between the State of Ohio and any potential witnesses in exchange for testimony, and including any information as to persons whom the defense may refer to as "informants," but that the State of Ohio did not think that in the present action there are any "informants," in the traditional sense that the term is used.

In response to the Court's inquiry of defense counsel concerning any specific allegations by the defense of deficiencies in the State of Ohio's provision of "Brady or informant discovery," counsel for the Defendant indicated that the defense desires to interview Elizabeth Freeman, but that the State of Ohio has not provided the defense with an address for Elizabeth Freeman and the defense does not know how to contact her.

Special Prosecuting attorney Canepa responded that the State of Ohio does not have an exact address for Elizabeth Freeman as of the time of the hearing, but that the State does intend to locate Elizabeth Freeman in order to serve her with a subpoena to appear as a potential witness at trial, and that the State of Ohio will make reasonable effort to have Elizabeth Freeman available for an interview by defense counsel prior to trial.

Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa further argued that Elizabeth Freeman is not a person whose identify has been unknown to the Defendant and that the State of Ohio has identified her to the defense as a prospective witness and has provided the defense with recordings of her statements.

I believe the wording was, did not shoot and kill nobody. He could have shot someone and his shot did not kill…My opinion only…
 

Piffcat

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Very interesting. I never thought of that, that maybe George did actually shoot but missed, thus, all the hoopla about George not shooting anyone.

If this were the case then I suspect George shot at Chris Sr. from outside his home. Maybe even was the one who shot the bullet through the floor into the dirt under the house.

They say George didn't shoot anybody but they do not say that George did not shoot AT anybody.

My feeling is that George did shoot someone, possibly Gary, and that mom and brother are covering up. I just read that the lawyers want to distance George from the crime as far as possible and to say he shot nobody and had no intent are 2 ways to do this.

Change of venue in Wagner murder trial denied by Pike County Judge Prosecutors said George Wagner will “try to distance himself from the heinous crimes.”

Also add on:


1.) George wasn't sopose to go out that night.
2.) George went at the last minute to protect Jake from Billy.
3.) George tried to talk them out of the murders.

In documents filed last week, defense attorneys cited Jake Wagner’s confession. They said it contained information that his brother “was not supposed to accompany Jake and his father and only went along at the ‘last second’ to protect Jake from their father.”

They added that George Wagner “tried to talk [his family members] out of these murders.”

Canepa said the defense attorneys cherrypicked snippets from Jake Wagner’s detailed statement. She said the confession was clear: “He implicated his brother.”

Also add on trying to get Motions thrown out.

1.) Shoe print expert.
2.) Other Acts.
3.) Jake and Angela's testimony.
4.) Change to a different venue out of Pike County.
5.) Motion and order to seal Jury list.

Docket - WAGNER, IV, GEORGE WASHINGTON


The Special Prosecuting Attorney further indicated that the State of Ohio has provided the Defendant with information concerning all potential witnesses, including recorded statements of several potential witnesses, including any agreements between the State of Ohio and any potential witnesses in exchange for testimony, and including any information as to persons whom the defense may refer to as "informants," but that the State of Ohio did not think that in the present action there are any "informants," in the traditional sense that the term is used.

In response to the Court's inquiry of defense counsel concerning any specific allegations by the defense of deficiencies in the State of Ohio's provision of "Brady or informant discovery," counsel for the Defendant indicated that the defense desires to interview Elizabeth Freeman, but that the State of Ohio has not provided the defense with an address for Elizabeth Freeman and the defense does not know how to contact her.

Special Prosecuting attorney Canepa responded that the State of Ohio does not have an exact address for Elizabeth Freeman as of the time of the hearing, but that the State does intend to locate Elizabeth Freeman in order to serve her with a subpoena to appear as a potential witness at trial, and that the State of Ohio will make reasonable effort to have Elizabeth Freeman available for an interview by defense counsel prior to trial.

Special Prosecuting Attorney Canepa further argued that Elizabeth Freeman is not a person whose identify has been unknown to the Defendant and that the State of Ohio has identified her to the defense as a prospective witness and has provided the defense with recordings of her statements.
all very good observations. btw i definitly think g4 shot and/or killed a victim, but it would be helpful to know if the 30 caliber struck anyone. if only the casings/unfired round were found and not in a victim, this may be the situation the evil wags are trying to exploit to free g4. if all 3 guns hit someone then jakes statement is even more ridiculous. the whole notion of "billy killing jake after" is ludicrous to the point of delusion. the wagners are pathological evil liars, but it seems their lies are plotted out in a cohesive narrative(angelas instructions to mom as an example) so the question is, how the hell did they come up with this billy killing jake nonsense?? if i was the state, i would have liked to try billy first. he definitly had more involvment with the feud/killing then g4 and events in the trial could flesh out more evidence against g4. jakes deal is so contingent on removing the death penalty, so i imagine he thinks he has an answer for everything. another thing i just cant wrap my head around is g4 making fun of jakes religion. imo one of them must have some non christian beliefs for this statement to make sense. dont think its a protestant vs catholic thing. an interesting point is that a few of billys tatoos have a norse mythology theme to them(3 triangles). white power hate groups/millitia have been attracted to these "neo pagan religions" that emphasize glory in battle and strength over morality/peaceful. ohio also has a wicca element, i believe rarden is known to be a hub, ill look for the article.considering the public image of the wagners being "close to the cross" and the connection to the preacher in ohio and alaska, the religion topic is even more perplexing.
 

Cool Cats

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all very good observations. btw i definitly think g4 shot and/or killed a victim, but it would be helpful to know if the 30 caliber struck anyone. if only the casings/unfired round were found and not in a victim, this may be the situation the evil wags are trying to exploit to free g4. if all 3 guns hit someone then jakes statement is even more ridiculous. the whole notion of "billy killing jake after" is ludicrous to the point of delusion. the wagners are pathological evil liars, but it seems their lies are plotted out in a cohesive narrative(angelas instructions to mom as an example) so the question is, how the hell did they come up with this billy killing jake nonsense?? if i was the state, i would have liked to try billy first. he definitly had more involvment with the feud/killing then g4 and events in the trial could flesh out more evidence against g4. jakes deal is so contingent on removing the death penalty, so i imagine he thinks he has an answer for everything. another thing i just cant wrap my head around is g4 making fun of jakes religion. imo one of them must have some non christian beliefs for this statement to make sense. dont think its a protestant vs catholic thing. an interesting point is that a few of billys tatoos have a norse mythology theme to them(3 triangles). white power hate groups/millitia have been attracted to these "neo pagan religions" that emphasize glory in battle and strength over morality/peaceful. ohio also has a wicca element, i believe rarden is known to be a hub, ill look for the article.considering the public image of the wagners being "close to the cross" and the connection to the preacher in ohio and alaska, the religion topic is even more perplexing.
Canepa was smart, she put Jake's trial on the Docket in August 2021. 4 months before he was, in my opinion, likely to get the death penalty. So then he did everything he could to get it off the table. <modsnip: Hearsay/rumor not allowed>

Even though Ohio can't get drugs for executions, the inmates are still kept separate on death row away from regular population.


Male inmates are housed at the Chillicothe Correctional Institution. Executions take place at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville. This is only 12.6 miles from FWF.

I am guessing that part of the religion was an excuse for Angie to home school her kids. Church would also give home schooled kids some type of socialization. According to the Wagner's Ohio pastor, his 2 boys played with the Wagner boys.

It's always been my opinion that Angie wanted to homeschool and raise her 2 grandkids together. Having one grandchild possibly going to regular school and only being around part time was not good enough for her. She wanted to raise both kids together just like she did her 2 boys. Just something I always thought.

Plus she did not have full %100 control over one of her grandkids. That full control for her mattered to her in my opinion.
 
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Puzzles8

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Canepa was smart, she put Jake's trial on the Docket in August 2021. 4 months before he was, in my opinion, likely to get the death penalty. So then he did everything he could to get it off the table. I heard she did his trial first because most of the evidence was against him and I bet she calculated that he would do a proffer.
BBM - I heard she did his trial first because most of the evidence was against him and I bet she calculated that he would do a proffer.
I'm curious why you thought they have the most evidence on G4? That surprised me.

JMO
 

Piffcat

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Canepa was smart, she put Jake's trial on the Docket in August 2021. 4 months before he was, in my opinion, likely to get the death penalty. So then he did everything he could to get it off the table. I heard she did his trial first because most of the evidence was against him and I bet she calculated that he would do a proffer.

Even though Ohio can't get drugs for executions, the inmates are still kept separate on death row away from regular population.


Male inmates are housed at the Chillicothe Correctional Institution. Executions take place at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville. This is only 12.6 miles from FWF.

I am guessing that part of the religion was an excuse for Angie to home school her kids. Church would also give home schooled kids some type of socialization. According to the Wagner's Ohio pastor, his 2 boys played with the Wagner boys.

It's always been my opinion that Angie wanted to homeschool and raise her 2 grandkids together. Having one grandchild possibly going to regular school and only being around part time was not good enough for her. She wanted to raise both kids together just like she did her 2 boys. Just something I always thought.

Plus she did not have full %100 control over one of her grandkids. That full control for her mattered to her in my opinion.
right but on the wire tap it was said in a hearing that g4 would make fun of specifically jakes religion. not his beleifs or actions but his religion. what could this mean??? also, for the victims, even if the dp is never carried out, that sentence would be a huge relief. no worrying about a some parole board in the future being conned. a dp inmate appeal will usually be centered on reduction to life without parole, but if senetenced to life they focus on a new trial. also, there is a certain justice putting someones end of life on a countdown. the dp possibility is still in play in ohio, next 10 20 years who knows what the political landscape will be. this case is a textbook definition of why the death penalty is a huge asset to getting justice for the victims. these people should not get to wake up daily eat watch tv socialize, *advertiser censored* look at what happened with the jailbreak, sure angy could find a demented guard to be in a relationship with. the prosecution loses so much leverage without the dp. if the worse case is life without parole, the murderer has nothing to lose by going to trial. it also leads to deals like angies, where a murderous codefendant gets an undeserved break in order to shore up the case against co defendants. in connecticut we just had a trial wheree brother/sister murdered an entire family stole everything out of house and burned the house down. we dont have dp. in order to secure conviction thee sister was given 40 years to testify. she will be free at 60 to 65 its unconscionable
 

Antimony

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the hide and shoot thing def lines up with the 7.62, a high speed bullet with more powder, but actually not too much bigger diameter wise then the pistols. thats what alot of people misunderstand about assault rifle type weapons, the explosive speed velocity and force wrecks havoc even if not "big". g4 was/is an avid marksman, he bought the night scope as well. i cant see any situation where he did not fire that rifle. but maybe he missed. and thats what all the cute language is about with jake
.40 caliber is 10.2 mm diameter
.22 caliber is 5.6 mm diameter
and
7.62 caliber is 7.62 mm diameter.
The 7.62 cartridge used was a 7.62x39 (think AK-47)
Not the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge (308 Winchester)
which is similar to the 30-06 Springfield.
 

rsd1200

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There's precedence . I agree with the judge.

The right of access to juror names and addresses - The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press
 

Cool Cats

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right but on the wire tap it was said in a hearing that g4 would make fun of specifically jakes religion. not his beleifs or actions but his religion. what could this mean??? also, for the victims, even if the dp is never carried out, that sentence would be a huge relief. no worrying about a some parole board in the future being conned. a dp inmate appeal will usually be centered on reduction to life without parole, but if senetenced to life they focus on a new trial. also, there is a certain justice putting someones end of life on a countdown. the dp possibility is still in play in ohio, next 10 20 years who knows what the political landscape will be. this case is a textbook definition of why the death penalty is a huge asset to getting justice for the victims. these people should not get to wake up daily eat watch tv socialize, *advertiser censored* look at what happened with the jailbreak, sure angy could find a demented guard to be in a relationship with. the prosecution loses so much leverage without the dp. if the worse case is life without parole, the murderer has nothing to lose by going to trial. it also leads to deals like angies, where a murderous codefendant gets an undeserved break in order to shore up the case against co defendants. in connecticut we just had a trial wheree brother/sister murdered an entire family stole everything out of house and burned the house down. we dont have dp. in order to secure conviction thee sister was given 40 years to testify. she will be free at 60 to 65 its unconscionable

"right but on the wire tap it was said in a hearing that g4 would make fun of specifically jakes religion. not his beleifs or actions but his religion. what could this mean???"

Courts usually hold that some combination of the five following factors will show that the jury is in need of protection:

(1) the defendant’s involvement in organized crime, (2) the defendant’s participation in a group with the capacity to harm jurors, (3) the defendant’s past attempts to interfere with the judicial process, (4) the potential that, if convicted, the defendant will suffer a lengthy incarceration and substantial monetary penalties, and (5) extensive publicity that could enhance the possibility that jurors’ names would become public and expose them to intimidation or harassment.[18]

In mob trials as well as other high profile drug etc... trials, I have heard of anonymous jurors being actually followed to their cars and license plates taken down and had their identities figured out so that they could be bribed.

The Wagner trials are so heinous that it makes sense to keep jury names under seal. Not that a Wagner will bust out of jail and show up at a juror's house, but that they could use their influence to go after a juror using someone else. They had people spy on Hanna and report back to them. It is a known fact that they went after witnesses and interfered with their GJ testimony and went to their lawyer's offices with them to tell them what to say.

Here you have the 4 Wagners locked up and EW is still so scared of them that she is trying to change her SS #. Makes sense as Jake harassed her and committed identity fraud against her.
 

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rsd1200

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Courts usually hold that some combination of the five following factors will show that the jury is in need of protection:

(1) the defendant’s involvement in organized crime, (2) the defendant’s participation in a group with the capacity to harm jurors, (3) the defendant’s past attempts to interfere with the judicial process, (4) the potential that, if convicted, the defendant will suffer a lengthy incarceration and substantial monetary penalties, and (5) extensive publicity that could enhance the possibility that jurors’ names would become public and expose them to intimidation or harassment.[18]

In mob trials as well as other high profile drug etc... trials, I have heard of anonymous jurors being actually followed to their cars and license plates taken down and had their identities figured out so that they could be bribed.

The Wagner trials are so heinous that it makes sense to keep jury names under seal. Not that a Wagner will bust out of jail and show up at a juror's house, but that they could use their influence to go after a juror using someone else. They had people spy on Hanna and report back to them. It is a known fact that they went after witnesses and interfered with their GJ testimony and went to their lawyer's offices with them to tell them what to say.

Here you have the 4 Wagners locked up and EW is still so scared of them that she is trying to change her SS #. Makes sense as Jake harassed her and committed identity fraud against her.

BBM I read my linked information, before I posted it, but thanks.
 

Cool Cats

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Defendant's Motion No. 80, entitled "Defendant's Motion To Suppress Testimony of Jake and Angela Wagner And To Dismiss The Death Specifications.

Upon further agreement of the State of Ohio and the defense, June 6, 2022 is also established as the deadline date for the exchange of expert reports. Each party shall provide the opposing party with the name and address of all expert witnesses that the party intends to testify as an expert witness at trial, together with a copy of the report of such expert on or before June 6, 2022.

the parties agreed that hearing upon Defendant's Motion No. 80 would be re-scheduled for Tuesday, June 21, 2022, at 1:00 o'clock p.m. Counsel for the Defendant indicated that the defense did not anticipate presentation of evidence in support of such motion but did anticipate oral argument in support of the same. Special Prosecuting Attorney Wilson indicated to the Court that the State of Ohio did not anticipate filing a written response to Defendant's Motion No. 80, but does anticipate presenting oral argument on June 21, 2022, in opposition to such motion.

Defendant's Motion No. 81, entitled "Defendant's Motion To Suppress Audio Recordings."

Decision as to Defendant's Motion No. 81.
Denied

The only witness called to testify at the oral hearing conducted upon Defendant's Motion No. 81 was Seth Hagaman, who currently holds the rank of captain with the West Chester Police Department, and who, at times relevant to obtaining the interception warrant in the present action, including extensions thereof, was a Special Agent with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation.

By agreement of the parties, Captain Hagaman was called by the State of Ohio to testify on direct examination concerning the obtaining of the interception warrant in the present action, including extensions thereof, as well as concerning the activities of the State of Ohio's agents in using the warrants to obtain the audio recordings sought by Defendant to be suppressed.

Having considered the sworn, oral testimony of Captain Hagaman, the five exhibits admitted into evidence at the hearing, and the written and oral arguments of counsel, the Court finds that the arguments of the Defendant in support of Defendant's Motion No. 81 are not well taken.
 
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