OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

[Cool Cats]

Also from above linked article:

“They each had a role to play,” Canepa said. She alleges the following:

• Angela Wagner bought athletic shoes from Walmart for her sons to wear on the night of the killings. The shoes, which prosecutors allege left bloody footprints at one of the crime scenes, were bought the month of the homicides.
• George Wagner bought the “murder truck,” which was to be used only that night in an attempt to avoid detection.
• Jake and George Wagner hid in the truck together when their father went to the home of Chris Rhoden Sr. — the first victim — on the night of the killings on a ruse to involve Rhoden in a lucrative drug deal.
• The sons had fired weapons under various scenarios to test whether shots could be heard.
• Jake Wagner bought a silencer in March 2016 and bought parts to build silencers.

“It was all for one and one for all,” Canepa said.

According to Canepa, Jake Wagner corroborated the evidence investigators had gathered in the case. He also led investigators to the guns used in the killings and the truck the prosecutor alleged his brother bought solely to be used the night of the killings.

Also In the article George's attorney said George wasn't sopose to go along and only went to protect Jake from Billy killing him. I hope it comes out in court why George would think Billy might kill Jake. Sounds like it could be a lie from George, just making a desperate excuse as to why he went. Like he had no choice but to go. Sounds "fishy."

I think George buying the truck shows he was planning to go along. Why buy the truck if you don't want to be involved? Also George testing the guns to see if they could be heard shows me he planned to go along and bring his gun. There were 3 guns not 2. And I believe 2 of the guns used were of the types George used, the glock and the 32 rifle, there was a gun list on both Angie's laptop and on Jake's phone.

So he's sitting in the truck to hide from Chris to ambush him, and it looks like he left a bloody shoe print in Chris's house. Even if the jury concludes George shot "nobody" I believe they will still convict him of murder, especially if they believe beyond a reasonable doubt the testimony of the shoe print expert. The shoe print places him right in the middle of the murder of Chris and Gary as opposed to just sitting in the truck all night.

Regardless, just him being at the crime scenes shows his support for the murders. And shows support for aggravated burglary and tampering with evidence, stealing and hiding the evidence. Shows how tight he was in the whole murder conspiracy.

I believe the only way he would get off on the murder charges is if he had stayed home with Angela, even his own attorneys admit he was at the murder scenes and George must have admitted this to them and the proffers place him there.

 

[LMDlong]

She received $53,170 subsidies in 2019. I did not go into a long deep search, so it could be more.

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database put the issue on the map and is driving reform. Just ten percent of America's largest and richest farms collect almost three-fourths of federal farm subsidies; cash payments that often harm the environment.

farm.ewg.org

I agree she is shrewd in business. I also think she is smarter than they probably are and would never allow them to put murder weapons in her pond even if she was involved, which I do not think she was.
She could be involved and they put the guns there without her approval anwyay, but it seems doubtful to me.
I do think they put the guns in the pond without her knowledge in either case.
I do wonder about them leaving 3 guns to be found by LE at Peterson Road. (if that article has correct info) Did they do that to punk LE? They also left that silencer. Were they trying to make LE think they found the evidence but it really wasn't? I could kind of see them doing that.

For some reason I have always thought FW’s husband knew . Maybe didn’t know before the murders, but sometime near his death she found out. But that’s JMO.

 

[IType]

I, too, am of the opinion that FW did not know about the murders until after they happened. My main reason is that she was never charged with murder.

If BCI and the prosecution team understood the chain of events well enough and had enough evidence to get indictments against BW, AW, GW4 and JW for murder, then they most certainly would have known whether or not FW was involved with the murder planning process. It doesn't make sense to me that, six and a half years after the crimes, BCI would suddenly file murder charges against FW.

If they charged AW with murder even though she wasn't present at the murder scenes, then they would have also charged FW with murder if she was involved in the planning process in any form.

By the same token, if BCI/prosecution charged GW4 with murder simply because he participated in the planning but "shot nobody" (if they truly believe that to be the case), then they would have also charged FW with murder if she was involved in the murder planning process.

As for FW's charges being re-filed, I have doubts that any future charges will be filed against her, but that is also just my opinion.

All JMO

 

[justtrish]

Also from above linked article:

“They each had a role to play,” Canepa said. She alleges the following:

• Angela Wagner bought athletic shoes from Walmart for her sons to wear on the night of the killings. The shoes, which prosecutors allege left bloody footprints at one of the crime scenes, were bought the month of the homicides.
• George Wagner bought the “murder truck,” which was to be used only that night in an attempt to avoid detection.
• Jake and George Wagner hid in the truck together when their father went to the home of Chris Rhoden Sr. — the first victim — on the night of the killings on a ruse to involve Rhoden in a lucrative drug deal.
• The sons had fired weapons under various scenarios to test whether shots could be heard.
• Jake Wagner bought a silencer in March 2016 and bought parts to build silencers.

“It was all for one and one for all,” Canepa said.

According to Canepa, Jake Wagner corroborated the evidence investigators had gathered in the case. He also led investigators to the guns used in the killings and the truck the prosecutor alleged his brother bought solely to be used the night of the killings.

Also In the article George's attorney said George wasn't sopose to go along and only went to protect Jake from Billy killing him. I hope it comes out in court why George would think Billy might kill Jake. Sounds like it could be a lie from George, just making a desperate excuse as to why he went. Like he had no choice but to go. Sounds "fishy."

I think George buying the truck shows he was planning to go along. Why buy the truck if you don't want to be involved? Also George testing the guns to see if they could be heard shows me he planned to go along and bring his gun. There were 3 guns not 2. And I believe 2 of the guns used were of the types George used, the glock and the 32 rifle, there was a gun list on both Angie's laptop and on Jake's phone.

So he's sitting in the truck to hide from Chris to ambush him, and it looks like he left a bloody shoe print in Chris's house. Even if the jury concludes George shot "nobody" I believe they will still convict him of murder, especially if they believe beyond a reasonable doubt the testimony of the shoe print expert. The shoe print places him right in the middle of the murder of Chris and Gary as opposed to just sitting in the truck all night.

Regardless, just him being at the crime scenes shows his support for the murders. And shows support for aggravated burglary and tampering with evidence, stealing and hiding the evidence. Shows how tight he was in the whole murder conspiracy.

I believe the only way he would get off on the murder charges is if he had stayed home with Angela, even his own attorneys admit he was at the murder scenes and George must have admitted this to them and the proffers place him there.

This is almost worse to me than actually killing them. If he was along, but trying to not be as involved as in he didn't shoot any of them, but instead was along and knew all that was going ot happen, then he is worse than the others. I think to execute innocent people with their infants and toddlers laying right there is just evil, you have to be sick in the head, maybe not insane legally, but something is driving that and it's sick. To be okay with someone else doing that, but not quite so sick you would pull a trigger to me says that George didn't want to do the executing so he was okay with the plan though. He could have called for help, he could have stopped it, he just sat by then and allowed it and his head couldn't have been as sick in those moments as the actual shooters (I think something must take over, adrenaline, anger, jealousy, etc and they were going to do what they were going to do). So he should face the exact same chargers even if it's shown he didn't shoot any of them. He may have been the one of the three that had some actual rational brain function that night and he still chose to stay and allow it.

 

[IType]

As for RN, I truly believe she knew nothing about the planned crimes beforehand. I think it was stated at the time of RN's plea change that a handwriting expert had determined RN's name was not actually signed by RN--it was AW who forged RN's name on the custody papers. If AW forged RN's signature, then it also makes sense that AW used RN's notary seal stamper without RN's knowledge.

As for RN lying, yes it was wrong. But, IMO, at least she came clean about it and changed her plea--and it didn't take her five years to confess, like her grandson and daughter did.

Again, JMO.

 

[IType]

For some reason I have always thought FW’s husband knew . Maybe didn’t know before the murders, but sometime near his death she found out. But that’s JMO.

I personally don't think he knew prior to the murders, but I definitely feel he knew his family had done it before he died. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

This is almost worse to me than actually killing them. If he was along, but trying to not be as involved as in he didn't shoot any of them, but instead was along and knew all that was going ot happen, then he is worse than the others. I think to execute innocent people with their infants and toddlers laying right there is just evil, you have to be sick in the head, maybe not insane legally, but something is driving that and it's sick. To be okay with someone else doing that, but not quite so sick you would pull a trigger to me says that George didn't want to do the executing so he was okay with the plan though. He could have called for help, he could have stopped it, he just sat by then and allowed it and his head couldn't have been as sick in those moments as the actual shooters (I think something must take over, adrenaline, anger, jealousy, etc and they were going to do what they were going to do). So he should face the exact same chargers even if it's shown he didn't shoot any of them. He may have been the one of the three that had some actual rational brain function that night and he still chose to stay and allow it.

Good points. You can't have it both ways. You either don't agree with it and stop it, or you agree it's ok for it to happen and you allow it to happen.

George agreed it was ok for it to happen and allowed it to happen. He even helped it to happen buying the truck and practice shooting with the silencers, buying a mask and nightscope, lying to BCI that custody wasn't an issue, going along to the crime scenes, probably driving the truck - I think they said the truck was modified in some way - and I believe he moved bodies and took phones and cameras etc... And was a look-out for them etc.....

And I believe he was locked and loaded, ready to shoot any Rhodens who might fight back.

I hope you post more often.

IF he was offered a 30 year sentence in a plea deal he is gambling it away for LWOP.

 

[justtrish]

Good points. You can't have it both ways. You either don't agree with it and stop it, or you agree it's ok for it to happen and you allow it to happen.

George agreed it was ok for it to happen and allowed it to happen. He even helped it to happen buying the truck and practice shooting with the silencers, buying a mask and nightscope, lying to BCI that custody wasn't an issue, going along to the crime scenes, probably driving the truck - I think they said the truck was modified in some way - and I believe he moved bodies and took phones and cameras etc... And was a look-out for them etc.....

And I believe he was locked and loaded, ready to shoot any Rhodens who might fight back.

I hope you post more often.

I have followed from early on, but got focused on some other cases. With the trail coming up, I decided to refresh my memory on this one. I've been going back to read past threads too and so many wonderful people here with varying ideas and input. I enjoy the dialog and insight so many provide.

Reading your post just gives me chills. I don't mean for my post or views to seem like what Billy and Jake did was not horrible, because it's just pure evil, but if George sat in the truck and did all the things you write, it really does seem even more sick. He wasn't being pressured by daddy to do xyz, his daughter wasn't part of any motive, his ex girlfriend and her family are not part of this, he really has no connection other than it's his dad and brother and he decides to just sit there and let it happen and participate in other ways besides the actual murders. It's disturbing. And to carry on living like none of it happened. I guess those of us who have a conscious and remorse for things we do that hurt others really won't even truly understand how a person can do this and then live normally.

 

[Cool Cats]

I have followed from early on, but got focused on some other cases. With the trail coming up, I decided to refresh my memory on this one. I've been going back to read past threads too and so many wonderful people here with varying ideas and input. I enjoy the dialog and insight so many provide.

Reading your post just gives me chills. I don't mean for my post or views to seem like what Billy and Jake did was not horrible, because it's just pure evil, but if George sat in the truck and did all the things you write, it really does seem even more sick. He wasn't being pressured by daddy to do xyz, his daughter wasn't part of any motive, his ex girlfriend and her family are not part of this, he really has no connection other than it's his dad and brother and he decides to just sit there and let it happen and participate in other ways besides the actual murders. It's disturbing. And to carry on living like none of it happened. I guess those of us who have a conscious and remorse for things we do that hurt others really won't even truly understand how a person can do this and then live normally.

Yup. And as he was living "normally" BCI was recording him.

All the State has to prove is that George was going along with his family's murder conspiracy the whole time. They have 8,000 recordings of interest. Remember these few from George?

Imagine how many more they have, these are only a few compared to literally 100's ..!!!!

At the last hearing the prosecution said they have incriminating statements from George and quote:

"The defendant doesn't seem to get that he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crine.

The planning - the preparation - the execution and the cover up."

Incriminating statements from George:

1.) If they have the gun they have the silencer. (Scheiderer sent George a photo of a 22 colt gun.)
2.) I told you to get rid of your phone. (Said to Jake. Jake had a gun list and a photo of him holding a 22 on his phone.)
3.) We have a family emergency. (When he sees the 22 colt Scheiderer sent him he calls all family members.)
4.) Don't come down here we have company.(Said to Billy when BCI showed up.)
5.) Jake's always getting us in trouble over some woman.
6.) I want to bash Scheiderer's face in = violent tendencies Scheiderer said.
7.) Going to get revenge on Reader revenge on DeWine.
8.) We're being bugged don't say anything till we get home.
9.) I bought a night scope.
10.) Bought a Captain America mask.
11.) Making fun of Jake's religion many times = they don't celebrate Halloween so what was the mask for?
12.) Will break those not arrested out of jail.
13.) Will get revenge against those who go against us.

Canepa & Scheiderer at George's Bond Hearing

 

[Covert Operative]

For some reason I have always thought FW’s husband knew . Maybe didn’t know before the murders, but sometime near his death she found out. But that’s JMO.

He may have. I feel that AW dad may have known and known for a good while before he died.

 

[Covert Operative]

I have followed from early on, but got focused on some other cases. With the trail coming up, I decided to refresh my memory on this one. I've been going back to read past threads too and so many wonderful people here with varying ideas and input. I enjoy the dialog and insight so many provide.

Reading your post just gives me chills. I don't mean for my post or views to seem like what Billy and Jake did was not horrible, because it's just pure evil, but if George sat in the truck and did all the things you write, it really does seem even more sick. He wasn't being pressured by daddy to do xyz, his daughter wasn't part of any motive, his ex girlfriend and her family are not part of this, he really has no connection other than it's his dad and brother and he decides to just sit there and let it happen and participate in other ways besides the actual murders. It's disturbing. And to carry on living like none of it happened. I guess those of us who have a conscious and remorse for things we do that hurt others really won't even truly understand how a person can do this and then live normally.

They may try to say he was being pressured by daddy or the whole family. I can only think of a couple of defense stategies they can try to use.

 

[Covert Operative]

Also from above linked article:

“They each had a role to play,” Canepa said. She alleges the following:

• Angela Wagner bought athletic shoes from Walmart for her sons to wear on the night of the killings. The shoes, which prosecutors allege left bloody footprints at one of the crime scenes, were bought the month of the homicides.
• George Wagner bought the “murder truck,” which was to be used only that night in an attempt to avoid detection.
• Jake and George Wagner hid in the truck together when their father went to the home of Chris Rhoden Sr. — the first victim — on the night of the killings on a ruse to involve Rhoden in a lucrative drug deal.
• The sons had fired weapons under various scenarios to test whether shots could be heard.
• Jake Wagner bought a silencer in March 2016 and bought parts to build silencers.

“It was all for one and one for all,” Canepa said.

According to Canepa, Jake Wagner corroborated the evidence investigators had gathered in the case. He also led investigators to the guns used in the killings and the truck the prosecutor alleged his brother bought solely to be used the night of the killings.

Also In the article George's attorney said George wasn't sopose to go along and only went to protect Jake from Billy killing him. I hope it comes out in court why George would think Billy might kill Jake. Sounds like it could be a lie from George, just making a desperate excuse as to why he went. Like he had no choice but to go. Sounds "fishy."

I think George buying the truck shows he was planning to go along. Why buy the truck if you don't want to be involved? Also George testing the guns to see if they could be heard shows me he planned to go along and bring his gun. There were 3 guns not 2. And I believe 2 of the guns used were of the types George used, the glock and the 32 rifle, there was a gun list on both Angie's laptop and on Jake's phone.

So he's sitting in the truck to hide from Chris to ambush him, and it looks like he left a bloody shoe print in Chris's house. Even if the jury concludes George shot "nobody" I believe they will still convict him of murder, especially if they believe beyond a reasonable doubt the testimony of the shoe print expert. The shoe print places him right in the middle of the murder of Chris and Gary as opposed to just sitting in the truck all night.

Regardless, just him being at the crime scenes shows his support for the murders. And shows support for aggravated burglary and tampering with evidence, stealing and hiding the evidence. Shows how tight he was in the whole murder conspiracy.

I believe the only way he would get off on the murder charges is if he had stayed home with Angela, even his own attorneys admit he was at the murder scenes and George must have admitted this to them and the proffers place him there.

I believe it was JW that said G4 went along to protect him from BW. When he said that I am sure defense jumped on that wagon also. I think they will try to paint BW as a ruthless father and that G4 was scared not to go along with the family and what they wanted him or needed him to do. I can only think of a few defenses they can try to use. They might say that JW and G4 felt BW would kill JW after the murders to make it look like JW was the only one responsible for the murders and was killed by a victim or committed suicide.
I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

 

[justtrish]

I believe it was JW that said G4 went along to protect him from BW. When he said that I am sure defense jumped on that wagon also. I think they will try to paint BW as a ruthless father and that G4 was scared not to go along with the family and what they wanted him or needed him to do. I can only think of a few defenses they can try to use. They might say that JW and G4 felt BW would kill JW after the murders to make it look like JW was the only one responsible for the murders and was killed by a victim or committed suicide.
I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

I am sure legal intent is different than what I think of in my mind. If a person knowingly goes along with a crime where they know the intent is to murder 8 people and then 8 people are murdered? If he prepped in any way for this crime and knew the intent of the others was to murder then? ugh this is where I think well he didn't intend to stop it at all and save them so he clearly was intent on them dying. I also think if the plan was to rob this family, but the men murdered people instead then that is different. The plan was always to murder them, never anything else so how can George then say he didn't have the intent? This is in my head here not claiming to know the legal version of intent vs didn't have intent etc.. I just think through it all and this is what I come up with.

 

[Cool Cats]

I believe it was JW that said G4 went along to protect him from BW. When he said that I am sure defense jumped on that wagon also. I think they will try to paint BW as a ruthless father and that G4 was scared not to go along with the family and what they wanted him or needed him to do. I can only think of a few defenses they can try to use. They might say that JW and G4 felt BW would kill JW after the murders to make it look like JW was the only one responsible for the murders and was killed by a victim or committed suicide.
I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

Your quote:

I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

Yes the defense is saying George had no intent to kill, quote from hearing:

"The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

Defense admits the prosecution has George as being complicit in all the charges but George had no intent towards any of it."

 Confusing. How can you be complicit without the intent to be complicit?

If he had no intent to kill he would have stopped them from killing, he wouldn't have let them plan it etc...

I don't get the no intent defense. He did what he did. It's his actions that matter.

 

[Covert Operative]

Levy Tweet: UPDATE: Jury selection in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV continues in #PikeCounty. 37 potential "death qualified" jurors are now in the pool. The hope is to find 40 to 60 from which a final jury will be selected. Those 40-60, once determined
will return to the Pike Co. Courthouse on 8/29 for group questioning. Each side will then "strike" jurors to determine the final jury. It's a small county. When I was out there last week, one potential juror was related to the Rhodens (dismissed). Another said he wasn't opposed to the death penalty but felt he wouldn't be able to sign his name to it. Being able to implement the DP is no easy task. Neither is sitting on a jury. All things considered, seems like it's moving fairly quickly
@LawCrimeNetwork

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559277468774719495

 

[Covert Operative]

Your quote:

I think they will try to say G4 did not have intent to kill which is needed for complicity. I do think he will be found guilty of complicity which is what the state has said they will try him under.

Yes the defense is saying George had no intent to kill, quote from hearing:

"The prosecution then said Jake did implicate George as being involved in the planning and execution of the shootings on the night in April 2016.

Defense admits the prosecution has George as being complicit in all the charges but George had no intent towards any of it."

 Confusing. How can you be complicit without the intent to be complicit?

If he had no intent to kill he would have stopped them from killing, he wouldn't have let them plan it etc...

I don't get the no intent defense. He did what he did. It's his actions that matter.

I guess they can try to say he could not stop them or if he did try he feared that BW would kill him. That he had no intent of ever killing anyone etc. They have to try something and if hey are going to say he had no intent I cannot think of any other way they can try to spin that.
There is a lot about complicity and intent in legal information but it is confusing.

 

[Covert Operative]

I am sure legal intent is different than what I think of in my mind. If a person knowingly goes along with a crime where they know the intent is to murder 8 people and then 8 people are murdered? If he prepped in any way for this crime and knew the intent of the others was to murder then? ugh this is where I think well he didn't intend to stop it at all and save them so he clearly was intent on them dying. I also think if the plan was to rob this family, but the men murdered people instead then that is different. The plan was always to murder them, never anything else so how can George then say he didn't have the intent? This is in my head here not claiming to know the legal version of intent vs didn't have intent etc.. I just think through it all and this is what I come up with.

I think the same. If you try to say that you were forced to do those things or go along with the family for fear of what may happen to yourself then I think you can say you had no intent to kill. Does not mean its true.

 

[Piffcat]

there have been some mainstream news articles now that trial is almost here. while reading the comments alot of anger and disgust towards the wagners. not surprising, but sometimes only seeing the reactions from defense lawyers can lul a defendant to sleep. if g4 goes with a defense which tries to minimize his involvment, guilt, or culbability its going to blow up very badly for him. when people read about this crime they get angry, livid in fact. the jury is going to do much more then read a summary article. if jw and aw mess around on the stand- there is a real possibility of the death penalty from a jury. good riddance

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks for this post. We might be the only ones on here who think they manipulated her and that she was bending over backwards to support them and believe them - yet at the same time they were using her and lying to her. The vests are a good illustration.

Unless I am not remembering this correctly, I think it was FW who gave them the Peterson Rd property for the "token" one dollar amount.

So imagine giving someone a free farm including a house and other buildings and land so they can have a place to live and develop their own farm and get a steady income. Then imagine they take your free gift and turn around and sell it for a heck of alot more than a dollar, then run off out west trying to get fraudulent mortgage loans and using up all the money living in Alaska.

Now that is using a person and taking advantage of them. According to the i heart podcast from a relative, they came back from Alaska because they ran out of money, having money problems.

BBM
We might be the only ones on here

You are not the only ones.

I always said the w 4 were guilty almost from day one. I always said it was over custody and early on believed CR and the W's were drug trafficking. But there was no evidence of the drug trafficking so I dropped that angle and went to custody as a motive.

After FW was arrested I figured she was in on the plot or knew after they did it. But then her charges were dismissed. So at this point she is a victim. She is not a POI, she was charged but charges dismissed, so at this time I include her in the long list of victims W4 left in their wake.

Unless and until someone presents some proof otherwise. So far though we got nada on her so she is a victim.

100% from the very beginning I said RW was a victim. Her other brother, his wife and kids also.

I felt so sorry for RW in that courtroom attending every hearing. Sitting alone. Someone on here mentioned they kind of knew her and I told them well maybe you should walk over and at least say hello. Let her know she is not entirely alone. After all she did not do anything, and she is not responsible for what her brother and his family did.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I disagree. FW was in fact charged with obstruction and perjury in connection with this case:

Grandmothers charged with lying after family is arrested in massacre

Attorney General Mike DeWine has given scant detail about why the victims were killed, other than saying the custody of a young child played a role.

www.mercurynews.com

Later she had her charges dropped without prejudice. That is an important distinction between with and without prejudice. In legal terminology without prejudice means the case is not over, and charges can be refiled.

But until the charges are refiled she is considered a victim on WS.

JMO