OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

[Cool Cats]

I guess they can try to say he could not stop them or if he did try he feared that BW would kill him. That he had no intent of ever killing anyone etc. They have to try something and if hey are going to say he had no intent I cannot think of any other way they can try to spin that.
There is a lot about complicity and intent in legal information but it is confusing.

I think the whole jury is going to say to each other that if George had no intent to kill 8 people, why did he go along and do nothing while being right there, allowing his brother and dad to kill 8 people?

I don't think the jury will buy this "George is innocent because he himself had no intent to kill 8 people."

Besides the jury will see his ACTIONS.

No intent but you buy a truck to be used in 8 murders?

No intent but you go along to the murder scenes while your dad knocks on Chris's door pretending to do a drug deal?

No intent but the best shoe print expert along with your own mother's testimony places you right in the middle of the murder scene where 2 people are killed?

No intent but your doing practice shooting checking to see how good suppressors work?

No intent when it was said in a hearing that Jake himself says George was involved with the crimes?

No intent when it was said George voted for the murders?

It was said George didn't shoot anyone yet also said they don't know who shot who.

At any rate, the jury will judge George's ACTIONS AND THINGS HE HAS SAID and the intent defense will go out the window.

In my opinion.

 

[justtrish]

If he only went along to protect Jake, I guess that might imply he would kill or at least shoot his Dad. Why not try to stop it before it got to that point. I keep wanting to know why it was said (sorry no link) that this all had to happen in this time frame. Does anyone recall this? IIRC, they needed it to happen before such and such a date. GRRR I hate when articles are scrubbed.

I recall hearing/seeing something about it being a full moon that night. I just looked it up and April 22nd 2016 was a full moon. Weather that is a reason it happened that night I don't know, but it would provide the most light assuming it was a clear night. Maybe they wanted the moonlight so not to use flashlights?

 

[Covert Operative]

I think the whole jury is going to say to each other that if George had no intent to kill 8 people, why did he go along and do nothing while being right there, allowing his brother and dad to kill 8 people?

I don't think the jury will buy this "George is innocent because he himself had no intent to kill 8 people."

Besides the jury will see his ACTIONS.

No intent but you buy a truck to be used in 8 murders?

No intent but you go along to the murder scenes while your dad knocks on Chris's door pretending to do a drug deal?

No intent but the best shoe print expert along with your own mother's testimony places you right in the middle of the murder scene where 2 people are killed?

No intent but your doing practice shooting checking to see how good suppressors work?

No intent when it was said in a hearing that Jake himself says George was involved with the crimes?

It was said George didn't shoot anyone yet also said they don't know who shot who.

At any rate, the jury will judge George's actions and the intent defense will go out the window.

In my opinion.

You can have intent a month, a week or day before you do something but change your mind any time before it happens. You can always try to claim that you felt forced or whatever to help someone, does not mean its true. I think they will make sure that BW does not come off very good in G4 trial.
The defense has to put whatever they can out there to try to cause doubt.
I do not think anyone has said that the jury will think he was innocent.
The recordings might not be very good for him.

 

[Covert Operative]

I have often wondered about the timing of the murders also, according to Canepa:

Canepa said she (Hanna) signed her death warrant by saying she would never sign, "they will have to kill me first."

And Canepa said that when Angela showed this Facebook messenger conversation to Jake they killed her only 4 months later.

I think the timing was simply based on when they were ready to do it. I mean once they decided to do it they started preparing and bought the murder kit items and then when they were ready they made sure Hanna had delivered her baby, not wanting to kill her while pregnant.

So they were ready to do it as soon as Hanna got home from the hospital and then set up the fake drug deal with Chris as well as spying on the Rhodens making sure they were home that night.

So I think it was, ok, let's vote on this, ok, we are going to do it, let's start getting ready then do it as soon as possible. As soon as possible was right after Hanna had her baby. They specifically picked the time right after Hanna had her baby because they were ready at that time to do it.

They saw the Facebook message, voted, planned, then did it as soon as they could. The soonest they could do it was after Hanna had her baby.

If Hanna had not been pregnant they probably would have done it sooner.

But we don't know for sure how much of Hanna's being pregnant with another man's baby influenced their vote to kill her. Had she never gotten pregnant would it have made a difference?

This was about her not signing any papers for Jake's daughter, it wasn't about the new baby, so I think they would have killed her anyway. Possibly sooner.

Yes it was in the planning for months, I think the question that was asked was why that particular time they decided to do it. There were all kinds of rumors as to why that particular time.
It was over cutody and Canepa had said in one of the hearings that JW did not like who HR was having the child around.

 

[Cool Cats]

I recall hearing/seeing something about it being a full moon that night. I just looked it up and April 22nd 2016 was a full moon. Weather that is a reason it happened that night I don't know, but it would provide the most light assuming it was a clear night. Maybe they wanted the moonlight so not to use flashlights?

I think they would have wanted it dark to conceal themselves and that the weather wasn't a factor in the planning. They were ready on a particular night and despite the moon or rain or whatever, that is when they decided to do it.

 

[justtrish]

I think they would have wanted it dark to conceal themselves and that the weather wasn't a factor in the planning. They were ready on a particular night and despite the moon or rain or whatever, that is when they decided to do it.

I'm just imagining trying to break into homes in the dark and needing something, phone light, flashlight, headlamp, etc.. they had to have a way to see what they were doing. Moonlight might provide just enough to not need artificial light. I think in the middle of nowhere they aren't going to be seen by anyone passing by, but using flashlights might alert those inside the house.

 

[Covert Operative]

I recall hearing/seeing something about it being a full moon that night. I just looked it up and April 22nd 2016 was a full moon. Weather that is a reason it happened that night I don't know, but it would provide the most light assuming it was a clear night. Maybe they wanted the moonlight so not to use flashlights?

A refernce to the weather is listed on discovery so it could have something to do with it. I would think they would have possibly needed some type of flashlights in some of the homes. Not sure the moonlight would have helped much inside, but it may.

 

[Cool Cats]

You can have intent a month, a week or day before you do something but change your mind any time before it happens. You can always try to claim that you felt forced or whatever to help someone, does not mean its true. I think they will make sure that BW does not come off very good in G4 trial.
The defense has to put whatever they can out there to try to cause doubt.
I do not think anyone has said that the jury will think he was innocent.
The recordings might not be very good for him.

Yes it was in the planning for months, I think the question that was asked was why that particular time they decided to do it. There were all kinds of rumors as to why that particular time.
It was over cutody and Canepa had said in one of the hearings that JW did not like who HR was having the child around.

I just don't think the jury will buy the defense argument that George is innocent of murder because (maybe) he didn't shoot anyone and had no intent to kill anyone.

Right. No one has said the jury will think he is innocent. If anyone thinks the jury will acquit him of the 8 murders it would be interesting to hear why they think that. I understand, no one really knows what a jury will do.

I think it was done at that particular time for the simple reason they were all ready to do it at that time. HR refused to sign papers so they got ready and executed their plan as soon as they could. The soonest they could do it is right after HR came home from the hospital, and getting Chris to agree to a meeting, and a night the Rhodens were all home, and a night Jake had his daughter. All this happened to fall on April 22 - 23 2016.

 

[ohioexpat63]

JMO...just because FW was charged/indicted doesnt mean she is guilty. Until the evidence is tested at trial then it is what it is, an allegation. I dont recall what she was accused of making false statements about.

 

[justtrish]

I just don't think the jury will buy the defense argument that George is innocent of murder because (maybe) he didn't shoot anyone and had no intent to kill anyone.

Right. No one has said the jury will think he is innocent. If anyone thinks the jury will acquit him of the 8 murders it would be interesting to hear why they think that. I understand, no one really knows what a jury will do.

I think it was done at that particular time for the simple reason they were all ready to do it at that time. HR refused to sign papers so they got ready and executed their plan as soon as they could. The soonest they could do it is right after HR came home from the hospital, and getting Chris to agree to a meeting, and a night the Rhodens were all home, and a night Jake had his daughter. All this happened to fall on April 22 - 23 2016.

Am I remembering right that earlier that day Jake picked up his daughter and it was early? I seem to recall he was supposed to have her later, but picked her up that day. When all these little details come out it really shows the level of planning and calculation. I agree a jury is not going to say anyone is innocent of this. They would have to have some major smoking gun, that I just don't think there is in this case.

 

[Cool Cats]

JMO...just because FW was charged/indicted doesnt mean she is guilty. Until the evidence is tested at trial then it is what it is, an allegation. I dont recall what she was accused of making false statements about.

Her 2 charges stemmed from only one thing - she was accused of lying to the GJ about the bullet proof vests found during a search of her house. A receipt proved she bought the vests after the murders not before the murders. Investigators were saying these vests were used in the murders.

Prosecutors say Wagner lied after investigators found two bulletproof vests at her home.

Wagner's attorney says she had receipts showing she bought the vests after the killings.

 

[Cool Cats]

Am I remembering right that earlier that day Jake picked up his daughter and it was early? I seem to recall he was supposed to have her later, but picked her up that day. When all these little details come out it really shows the level of planning and calculation. I agree a jury is not going to say anyone is innocent of this. They would have to have some major smoking gun, that I just don't think there is in this case.

Jake said he picked her up that night and "just missed it." Then Angela had him correct it in a different article saying he had her at a different time. So 2 different days of picking her up are out there.

I don't think Angela liked Jake placing himself at the crime scene on the night of the murders.

Maybe someone has the 2 articles where it talks about these 2 different times she was picked up or with Jake etc....

Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours."

 

[Covert Operative]

Am I remembering right that earlier that day Jake picked up his daughter and it was early? I seem to recall he was supposed to have her later, but picked her up that day. When all these little details come out it really shows the level of planning and calculation. I agree a jury is not going to say anyone is innocent of this. They would have to have some major smoking gun, that I just don't think there is in this case.

It was first said that he picked her up that day, later it was said that he had her the whole week, never have known which is correct.

 

[Covert Operative]

Jake said he picked her up that night and "just missed it." Then Angela had him correct it in a different article saying he had her at a different time. So 2 different days of picking her up are out there.

I don't think Angela liked Jake placing himself at the crime scene on the night of the murders.

Maybe someone has the 2 articles where it talks about these 2 different times she was picked up or with Jake etc....

Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours."

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when Hanna Rhoden's daughter went to stay with her father, Jake Wagner. Rhoden dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016.
This was in this article which is a very good article.

Pike County: Death in the foothills

If not for some less-than-subtle warnings, the little yellow house could pass for any other in the gentle rolling hills of rural Pike County, Ohio.

www.cincinnati.com

 

[Covert Operative]

JMO...just because FW was charged/indicted doesnt mean she is guilty. Until the evidence is tested at trial then it is what it is, an allegation. I dont recall what she was accused of making false statements about.

She was charged with lying about where she bought the vests. She said she bought them on Amazon and actually bought them on Ebay, problem is she never produced the receipts til months later so she was charged for lying. She did not give them receipts for when or where she had bought them after she had said she would.

 

[Cool Cats]

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly reported when Hanna Rhoden's daughter went to stay with her father, Jake Wagner. Rhoden dropped her daughter off on Friday, April 15, 2016.
This was in this article which is a very good article.

Pike County: Death in the foothills

If not for some less-than-subtle warnings, the little yellow house could pass for any other in the gentle rolling hills of rural Pike County, Ohio.

www.cincinnati.com

So if Hanna dropped her off that Friday it doesn't make sense that Jake specifically said he picked her up that following Thursday. Soposedly he already had her.

Hummm.....

 

[Covert Operative]

I'm just imagining trying to break into homes in the dark and needing something, phone light, flashlight, headlamp, etc.. they had to have a way to see what they were doing. Moonlight might provide just enough to not need artificial light. I think in the middle of nowhere they aren't going to be seen by anyone passing by, but using flashlights might alert those inside the house.

They drove up to CRsr on the night of the murders on their bought modified truck so I am not sure they were worried about moonlight, flashlights or any of those things. I do not think it has been said if they drove up to the other scenes for sure. They got access to CRsr that way per JW proffer, I believe. Do you think they actually broke into the other homes? I know they entered illegally either way, but I am not sure how they got in. I kind of think with keys thy took from CRsr to get in FR and DR.

 

[Covert Operative]

So if Hanna dropped her off that Friday it doesn't make sense that Jake specifically said he picked her up that following Thursday. Soposedly he already had her.

I am not sure if he said that specifically or the way he said it made it sound that way. I think he was suppose to drop her off that Friday morning of the murders. He could have said that he picked her up the day before or something could have been wrong in an article. I am sure he probably did not tell the truth whatever he said.

 

[ohioexpat63]

She was charged with lying about where she bought the vests. She said she bought them on Amazon and actually bought them on Ebay, problem is she never produced the receipts til months later so she was charged for lying. She did not give them receipts for when or where she had bought them after she had said she would.

Yes, thats right. I thought then it was weak and i still think so today. Theres no way i could produ e receipts in purchases years old. In any event, i cant see this going anywhere, even after all 4 Ws are litigated. Jmo

 

[StrangeOne]

So if Hanna dropped her off that Friday it doesn't make sense that Jake specifically said he picked her up that following Thursday. Soposedly he already had her.

Hummm.....

Maybe JW was lying for attention? Or to phrase it in another way maybe he was lying to try and look innocent? "Oh my goodness it could have been me and my daughter too!" kind of thing?