OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #69

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I can't wait to see the defenses witness list.

1. ?

Would G4 get a jury more to his liking in Pike County or another county?
It’s an interesting question regarding the jury.
It seems to me a Pike County Jury would have more understanding, background on the case, the people/ Families involved, more knowledge of prior Wagner bad acts and more concern for their own safety And the safety of the community in general.
Even when the jury is instructed to rely only on evidence presented, the reputation of the Wagner family is there.
It could be good for the W’s or bad for the W’s. No way to predict. There could be strong individual reasons pro or con on a Pike County jury.

A jury seated in another County might be leaning more toward the facts alone. The facts alone will convict them and bring a guilty verdict. Hopefully a DP.
MO
 
Don't recall if this was posted or not - the jury questionnaire.

I think it was, but I wanted to read number 87 again, so thanks. Does that mean the jury may recommend the sentence? I know the judge hands down the sentence. I had posted a while back I thought in some cases the jury recommeds the sentence but others had not thought so. I am not clear on what that paragraph means.
 
I too think the large family support of parents, siblings, HG, aunts, uncles and cousins that HR had to help her with SW, financial and emotional support angered JW and AW. JW had a very small amount of family members to stand beside him, and I would imagine he was also jealously in that regard too.
I agree. Bringing in a new baby with a different father, HG family, may have been a tipping point for the W’s. Jake was no doubt filled with jealousy and rage over the situation and father of the new baby. AW probably had the same feelings.
 
I'll be very surprised if they don't get the DP anyway, there's no way they are going to be able to keep all thier lies in the proffer's straight with AC questioning.
I think AC will try to question them so they stick to their proffers, prosecution would not want their own witness to look like liars on the stand. Would not be good for their case to impeach their own witness.

I think the defense may try to bring in doubt and possibly try to catch them with a different story. They also have to be careful of trying to do that but may be willing to roll that dice if they think it will help G4 be found guilty of a lesser charge. That might mean he would not get DP even if the State said it was in play.
 
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I think it was, but I wanted to read number 87 again, so thanks. Does that mean the jury may recommend the sentence? I know the judge hands down the sentence. I had posted a while back I thought in some cases the jury recommeds the sentence but others had not thought so. I am not clear on what that paragraph means.

What it means is that if the DP stays on the table and George is found guilty, then there is the sentencing phase trial where the Jury has to decide if George receives the DP or not. This is where the jury decides the sentence. At least the jury decides on death or not.

The question asked is that if you do not vote for death due to the mitigating factors, but all the other jurors do vote for death, would you change your mind and go along with the majority?
 
What it means is that if the DP stays on the table and George is found guilty, then there is the sentencing phase trial where the Jury has to decide if George receives the DP or not. This is where the jury decides the sentence. At least the jury decides on death or not.

The question asked is that if you do not vote for death due to the mitigating factors, but all the other jurors do vote for death, would you change your mind and go along with the majority?
Yes, the jury recommends the sentence in that case and the judge hands it down as he sees fit is what I think.
 
Yes, the jury recommends the sentence in that case and the judge hands it down as he sees fit is what I think.
I think in Ohio the way it works is that if the jury votes against the DP then the judge cannot hand down a DP sentence. But if the jury does vote for the DP the judge can over rule it and actually not hand down the DP.

So if George were to be sentenced to the DP by his jury, Judge Deering could decide not to give it to him. But if George's jury decided against giving George the DP then Deering could not give him the DP.

This is how I think it works in Ohio.
 
Can the Judge overrule the recommendation of the Jury?
It's my understanding from researching it that in Ohio the judge does not have to impose the DP even if the jury votes for it. Every State has their own laws on it and many States don't even have the DP.

So if the jury were to recommend that George get the DP, Deering could choose not to impose it. But if the jury votes against the DP, Deering could not give George the DP.

I don't think it will get this far, George having a sentencing trial for the DP. I think Jake and Angela, with Canepa keeping them on point and "rehabilitating" their testimony when nessassary, will stick close enough to their proffers to keep the DP off the table for George.

As for Billy's trial, same thing.
 
Am, I the only one thinking we will not see G4 on the stand.
I think if he wants any chance of helping himself, he will. I guess in my mind it depends on what Angela and Jake say on the stand. He might feel like he has to, if what both of the others say is believable and makes him look worse. If what they say supports him being less involved and their dad being the main one, then it wouldn't help him. In this case there have been so many twists, I don't think I'll be surprised either way.
 
Question for everyone. Does anyone know if Jake and Angela are allowed any contact/conversations/letters at this point or at any point in the past 2 years? I am curious if each of them have independently provided their statements on what happened. If there was any opportunity for them to coordinate their statements? I am guessing no, but in this case I guess I think anything is possible. I am curious if their statements line up and support each other or if they are different.

I'm also curious if LE has any proof that they attempted to come up with a story to tell if they all got caught. I think maybe Jakes ex(wife) has any insight or overheard anything. Jake's plea deal came out of nowhere and then Angela's. I hope he was 100% honest on what happened. I think Jake's statements might be more believable than Angela's.
 
I think if he wants any chance of helping himself, he will. I guess in my mind it depends on what Angela and Jake say on the stand. He might feel like he has to, if what both of the others say is believable and makes him look worse. If what they say supports him being less involved and their dad being the main one, then it wouldn't help him. In this case there have been so many twists, I don't think I'll be surprised either way.

George Wagner IV appears in court for …

Weird how Jake's proffer says George "shot nobody" but then Angela and Jake say they don't know who shot who.

His younger brother Jake Wagner, and his mother, Angela pleaded guilty earlier this year for their roles in the execution-style murders.

They stated that they do not know who shot whom.


Wagner IV’s attorneys are arguing the death penalty should be off the table because he didn’t shoot anyone.

This is scary:

Wagner’s attorney mentioned that he wants to interview Jake Wagner’s ex-wife, but Canepa says she pled for her life when she left the Wagner home.

Wagner’s attorneys were also stating that they were not getting addresses of the witness names because they believe some may be informants.

Prosecutor Canepa argues that the reason they did not provide the addresses was due to a safety concern.


I hadn't realized before that EW had pled for her life when leaving the Wagners.

They threatened to kill her family if they came there, according to the Other Acts Evidence, and they voted her out of the family, and by this time she would have heard the revenge talks (female witness) and suspected them of 8 murders, plus probably learned about threats made to George's EX and even HR.
 
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Question for everyone. Does anyone know if Jake and Angela are allowed any contact/conversations/letters at this point or at any point in the past 2 years? I am curious if each of them have independently provided their statements on what happened. If there was any opportunity for them to coordinate their statements? I am guessing no, but in this case I guess I think anything is possible. I am curious if their statements line up and support each other or if they are different.

I'm also curious if LE has any proof that they attempted to come up with a story to tell if they all got caught. I think maybe Jakes ex(wife) has any insight or overheard anything. Jake's plea deal came out of nowhere and then Angela's. I hope he was 100% honest on what happened. I think Jake's statements might be more believable than Angela's.
I do not think they are allowed contact but there may be ways they do have some contact is my thinking. I think their statements line up close about certain things, but AW cannot say what happened at the scenes because she says she was not there. She can testify to what she knows before and after but probably not to what she was told about anything.
JW knew all the evidence/discovery before he made his proffer, so he knew what they could and could not prove I assume.
 
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George Wagner IV appears in court for …

Weird how Jake's proffer says George "shot nobody" but then Angela and Jake say they don't know who shot who.

His younger brother Jake Wagner, and his mother, Angela pleaded guilty earlier this year for their roles in the execution-style murders.

They stated that they do not know who shot whom.


Wagner IV’s attorneys are arguing the death penalty should be off the table because he didn’t shoot anyone.

This is scary:

Wagner’s attorney mentioned that he wants to interview Jake Wagner’s ex-wife, but Canepa says she pled for her life when she left the Wagner home.

Wagner’s attorneys were also stating that they were not getting addresses of the witness names because they believe some may be informants.

Prosecutor Canepa argues that the reason they did not provide the addresses was due to a safety concern.


I hadn't realized before that EW had pled for her life when leaving the Wagners.

They threatened to kill her family if they came there, according to the Other Acts Evidence, and they voted her out of the family, and by this time she would have heard the revenge talks (female witness) and suspected them of 8 murders, plus probably learned about threats made to George's EX and even HR.
AW would not know who shot whom if she was not there, but JW would know. I think that may be worded in the article incorrectly.
 

George Wagner IV appears in court for …

Weird how Jake's proffer says George "shot nobody" but then Angela and Jake say they don't know who shot who.

His younger brother Jake Wagner, and his mother, Angela pleaded guilty earlier this year for their roles in the execution-style murders.

They stated that they do not know who shot whom.


Wagner IV’s attorneys are arguing the death penalty should be off the table because he didn’t shoot anyone.

This is scary:

Wagner’s attorney mentioned that he wants to interview Jake Wagner’s ex-wife, but Canepa says she pled for her life when she left the Wagner home.

Wagner’s attorneys were also stating that they were not getting addresses of the witness names because they believe some may be informants.

Prosecutor Canepa argues that the reason they did not provide the addresses was due to a safety concern.


I hadn't realized before that EW had pled for her life when leaving the Wagners.

They threatened to kill her family if they came there, according to the Other Acts Evidence, and they voted her out of the family, and by this time she would have heard the revenge talks (female witness) and suspected them of 8 murders, plus probably learned about threats made to George's EX and even HR.
Truly disturbing. I hope both Jake and George's ex's have received therapy for what they experienced and dealt with. I hope all their testimony is allowed because it will go a long way to show the family dynamic and control and cult like relationship this family had.
 
Question for everyone. Does anyone know if Jake and Angela are allowed any contact/conversations/letters at this point or at any point in the past 2 years? I am curious if each of them have independently provided their statements on what happened. If there was any opportunity for them to coordinate their statements? I am guessing no, but in this case I guess I think anything is possible. I am curious if their statements line up and support each other or if they are different.

I'm also curious if LE has any proof that they attempted to come up with a story to tell if they all got caught. I think maybe Jakes ex(wife) has any insight or overheard anything. Jake's plea deal came out of nowhere and then Angela's. I hope he was 100% honest on what happened. I think Jake's statements might be more believable than Angela's.

None of the Wagners are allowed any communication with each other. Any story they concocted together had to be done before arrests.

There is however the possibility that Angela's and Jake's attorneys communicated with each other. How much of that affected Angela's proffer we don't know.

Canepa said Angie's testimony collaborates Jake's proffer.

Special prosecutor Angela Canepa said that a statement proffered by Wagner will help in the remaining cases. The statement is consistent with that her son, Edward "Jake" Wagner, already provided, she said.

"The defendant had the methods, admitted to committing the offenses with her family members," and either directly carried them out or was complicit in doing so."
Rhoden family murders update: Angela …


I think it was said in court they voted EW out because she was a liability, so I do think she overhead things and they must have threatened her since she pled for her life.
 
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George Wagner IV appears in court for …

Weird how Jake's proffer says George "shot nobody" but then Angela and Jake say they don't know who shot who.

His younger brother Jake Wagner, and his mother, Angela pleaded guilty earlier this year for their roles in the execution-style murders.

They stated that they do not know who shot whom.


Wagner IV’s attorneys are arguing the death penalty should be off the table because he didn’t shoot anyone.

This is scary:

Wagner’s attorney mentioned that he wants to interview Jake Wagner’s ex-wife, but Canepa says she pled for her life when she left the Wagner home.

Wagner’s attorneys were also stating that they were not getting addresses of the witness names because they believe some may be informants.

Prosecutor Canepa argues that the reason they did not provide the addresses was due to a safety concern.


I hadn't realized before that EW had pled for her life when leaving the Wagners.

They threatened to kill her family if they came there, according to the Other Acts Evidence, and they voted her out of the family, and by this time she would have heard the revenge talks (female witness) and suspected them of 8 murders, plus probably learned about threats made to George's EX and even HR.
I think this could be in regard to whatever the ruling was on State giving information to the defense on JW ex. It is just so unbelieveable they say they cannot find her. I just have to believe they are lying on that for some reason.
This judge was the judge on the previous Sheriffs case and she may be the one the supreme court appointed to hear the motion the defense filed to get info on EA. Just a guess on my part.
08/16/2022JOURNAL ENTRY ORDERING FILING UNDER SEAL - SIGNED BY THE HONORABLE PATRICIA A COSGROVE
 
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Truly disturbing. I hope both Jake and George's ex's have received therapy for what they experienced and dealt with. I hope all their testimony is allowed because it will go a long way to show the family dynamic and control and cult like relationship this family had.
I wonder if JW ex will testify remotely via video? Also, witnesses can opt out of being on video or audio in court for the camera, which would mean we may not hear, see, or both. They could opt out of video but be ok with audio etc. I hope key witnesses do not opt out.
 
I think it was, but I wanted to read number 87 again, so thanks. Does that mean the jury may recommend the sentence? I know the judge hands down the sentence. I had posted a while back I thought in some cases the jury recommeds the sentence but others had not thought so. I am not clear on what that paragraph means.
Here in Oklahoma they do. They hold a separate trial after the guilty verdict and the jury comes back with their recommendation.

JMO
 
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