OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

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No .22 Remington's were found at CRSr. It was a .40 cal Hornaday.

JMO the .30 caliber SKS rifle mentioned at the bond hearing was shot from CRSr. front yard injured his arm, damaged the door frame/screen door, went through the walls and out the opposite side of the trailer.
I am curious about the cartridges and casings found vs. the known shots fired. At Dana's and Chris Sr's the shooter or group clearly policed their brass and picked up cartridges and spent she'll casings. Something led that to not happen at Frankie and Hannah Giley's place.

I wonder why that was. It could be because BR was there. It could indicate different shooters. Maybe it was the space or time. But it is interesting.

If I have this right, its:

4199 Union Hill Road (Frankie and Hannah Giley)

*8 shots hit victims

-5 Remington .22 LR cartridage casings
-1 Remington .22 LR cartridge

3122 Union Hill Road (Dana, Hanna and Chris)

*11 shots hit victims

1 Remington .22 LR casing

4077 Union Hill Road (Chris Sr. and Gary)

* 12 shots hit victims

- Hornaday .40 cartiage casing

Left Fork Road (Kenneth)

*1 shot hit victim
 
No. I am not. It feels like they modified & coordinated the telling of events of that night just to limit the legal exposure of one of them(George). I do not think they thought it out and think George will simply walk. I do not think it is going to happen and I hope the prosecuting attorneys catch them in a Lie big enough that the Death penalty is back on the table.
Right, when Jake takes witness stand he must stick to the conditions of his plea deal or the death penalty will be added back to the charges. What a mess it will create if Jake doesn't tell the story Prosecution is expecting to hear.
 
I am curious about the cartridges and casings found vs. the known shots fired. At Dana's and Chris Sr's the shooter or group clearly policed their brass and picked up cartridges and spent she'll casings. Something led that to not happen at Frankie and Hannah Giley's place.

I wonder why that was. It could be because BR was there. It could indicate different shooters. Maybe it was the space or time. But it is interesting.

If I have this right, its:

4199 Union Hill Road (Frankie and Hannah Giley)

*8 shots hit victims

-5 Remington .22 LR cartridage casings
-1 Remington .22 LR cartridge

3122 Union Hill Road (Dana, Hanna and Ch
*11 shots hit victims

1 Remington .22 LR casing

4077 Union Hill Road (Chris Sr. and Gary)

* 12 shots hit victims

- Hornaday .40 cartiage casing

Left Fork Road (Kenneth)

*1 shot hit victim
I think the shell casings were not picked up at at Frankie's place because the shooter was in a huge rush to get out of there. Additionally, there was a lot of clutter at Frankies, maybe the casings could not quickly be found
 
I am thinking JW shot her so many times... the others likely didn't have that much hatred towards her to shoot 5 times in the head.
The prosecution's opening statement said Jake said she was shot so many times because after he shot her, he went into Hannah's room, shot her and, then, heard Dana making noise. He went back a shot her again. Unclear how many times in each instance

 
I think for Billy and George, they can each claim the other was the one there shooting if they wanted. Jake admits to killing 5 and he admits all 3 were present, but then where the doubt comes in if there is no DNA or fingerprints, then who else was shooting? Could be Billy, could be George, could be both. I think that is how each defense can be holding out with not guilty. It'll be interesting to see what defense George's lawyers use and then what Billy's lawyers use.
The logical strategy for either of them would be to argue Jake did all the shooting. The first reason is it can be used to impeach or undermine confidence in Jake's testimony. Second, it means that neither Billy nor George have to worry about the other's testimony being used against them. For example, if George argued it was Jake and Billy, that would give Billy more incentive to do a plea deal and testify against George, etc.

Edited
 
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No. I am not. It feels like they modified & coordinated the telling of events of that night just to limit the legal exposure of one of them(George). I do not think they thought it out and think George will simply walk. I do not think it is going to happen and I hope the prosecuting attorneys catch them in a Lie big enough that the Death penalty is back on the table.

JMO, the prosecution and BCI have been around the block enough times to know whether Jake tried to lie to them in his confession. If he tried, they managed to get the truth out of him. Whatever he says has to match the evidence and witness testimony they have.

We don't know most of the details of his proffer, but we will find out eventually.

AC has already said they had enough evidence for convictions. The confession just helps to confirm what they already know.
 
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The proffer of Jake dovetails with the evidence the prosecution already has. Then Angela's proffer matches Jake's. If they had planned for 2 years to get George off they would have simply said that George stayed home with Angela that night. It's possible the shoe prints forced Jake to change that story. It's very possible the evidence changed that story completely of George not being at the crime scenes.

Canepa said Jake's story wasn't completely accurate at first. So if the plan was to say George wasn't involved they would have said he wasn't there. Simple as that. But faced with the evidence including 8,000 recordings we haven't heard, Jake was forced to admit George went along. And so then the same happened to Angela. My theory.

Because why say he even went if they wanted him to not get arrested or convicted? Prosecution showed there was too much evidence against George. Period. So Jake and Angela were cornered and admitted he was there. Jake tried to minimize it by saying George went at last minute, didn't shoot, and tried to talk them out of it. But Angie, not being able to talk to Jake, admitted George voted for it. So any story they practiced for 2 1/2 years of George being innocent went down the drain with all the prosecution's evidence.

June 21, 2022 George Hearing. So many interesting things brought up by the prosecution.

Important: they had the evidence of George's involvement before Jake and Angela's proffers. The whole case doesn't hinge on their proffers.

They started to suspect the Wagners when the Wagners kept saying everything was fine with custody but the Rhoden family and outside people gave the opposite story, that Jake and the Wagners wanted custody.

After that, then they dug deeper and found out George and the Wagners had done the exact same thing to the mother of George's son, then gave her as little contact with her son as possible.

They knew 3 different guns were used that night, a 22 a 40 and a 30 SKS 7.62 mm. They found this list of guns on Angie's computer that they seized at the border and it had the gun list and listed George's as being the 30 SKS.

They had the shoe receipt and video of Angie buying the shoes and admitting she bought them for George and Jake in her interview.

They have many incriminating statements from electronic "bugging" of George.

They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes and Jake gave them the 3 specific guns used that night plus admits George bought and helped modify the murder truck as well as hid in it and almost shot a gun from outside. (Said George couldn't see over the oil suppressor.) Plus that George moved bodies and was at Dana's.

I believe with the evidence and prosecution putting the screws to Jake, he admitted much much more than he had originally planned to regarding George. Jake was in no position to lie to the prosecution in the face of all the evidence.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that - he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:


The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

There are still 14 other charges besides the 8 aggravated murder charges.
 
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No. I am not. It feels like they modified & coordinated the telling of events of that night just to limit the legal exposure of one of them(George). I do not think they thought it out and think George will simply walk. I do not think it is going to happen and I hope the prosecuting attorneys catch them in a Lie big enough that the Death penalty is back on the table.
Same I also think this goes a lot deeper than W/R fued.
 
Dumb question but..

Does anyone know whether or not B3 is allowed to be among other people who might secretly pass him info from what's going on in the trial or opening statements? Or is he totally isolated?
 
The proffer of Jake dovetails with the evidence the prosecution already has. Then Angela's proffer matches Jake's. If they had planned for 2 years to get George off they would have simply said that George stayed home with Angela that night. It's possible the shoe prints forced Jake to change that story. It's very possible the evidence changed that story completely of George not being at the crime scenes.

Canepa said Jake's story wasn't completely accurate at first. So if the plan was to say George wasn't involved they would have said he wasn't there. Simple as that. But faced with the evidence including 8,000 recordings we haven't heard, Jake was forced to admit George went along. And so then the same happened to Angela. My theory.

Because why say he even went if they wanted him to not get arrested or convicted? Prosecution showed there was too much evidence against George. Period. So Jake and Angela were cornered and admitted he was there. Jake tried to minimize it by saying George went at last minute, didn't shoot, and tried to talk them out of it. But Angie, not being able to talk to Jake, admitted George voted for it. So any story they practiced for 2 1/2 years of George being innocent went down the drain with all the prosecution's evidence.

June 21, 2022 George Hearing. So many interesting things brought up by the prosecution.

They had the evidence of George's involvement before Jake and Angela's proffers. The whole case doesn't just hinge on their proffers.

They started to suspect the Wagners when the Wagners kept saying everything was fine with custody but the Rhoden family and outside people gave the opposite story, that Jake and the Wagners wanted custody.

After that, then they dug deeper and found out George and the Wagners had done the exact same thing to the mother of George's son, then gave her as little contact with her son as possible.

They knew 3 different guns were used that night, a 22 a 40 and a 30 SKS 7.62 mm. They found this list of guns on Angie's computer that they seized at the border and it had the gun list and listed George's as being the 30 SKS.

They had the shoe receipt and video of Angie buying the shoes and admitting she bought them for George and Jake in her interview.

They have many incriminating statements from electronic "bugging" of George.

They saw from cell tower records that all 4 Wagner phones were together that night. They dug deeper into the cell records and found that in 2016 that night of the murders was the only time all of their phones were together. It places the 3 Wagner men together that night. (Peterson Rd.)

The search of Wagner property found the 22 shell casings that matched the casings at the crime scenes and Jake gave them the 3 specific guns used that night plus admits George bought and helped modify the murder truck as well as hid in it and almost shot a gun from outside. (Said George couldn't see over the oil suppressor.) Plus that George moved bodies and was at Dana's.

I believe with the evidence and prosecution putting the screws to him, he admitted much much more than he had originally planned to regarding George. Jake was in no position to lie to the prosecution in the face of all the evidence.

Also the prosecutor said that Complicity in Ohio is if 2 or more people engage in criminal activity for the purpose of one doing one part the other doing the other part then each is responsible for the whole.

He, the prosecutor, said that the defendant doesn't seem to get that - he doesn't seem to understand that - he wants to argue that he didn't do this or he didn't do that when the evidence will show that at the very least he participated in every phase of this crime:


The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

He also mentioned having both circumstantial and direct evidence.

are still 14 other charges besides the 8 aggravated murder charges.
Which in MO it would leave alot of holes in JW proffer.
 
The logical strategy for either of them would be to argue Jake did all the shooting. The first reason is it can be used to impeach or undermine confidence in Jake's testimony. Second, it means that neither Billy nor George have to worry about the other's testimony being used against them. For example, if George argued it was Jake and Billy, that would give Billy more incentive to do a plea deal and testify against George, etc.

Edited
JMO All three had a gun on them. GW stood watch near GrJr’s room with his Glock . I think the sks was only used for shots from outside. Just because only one Glock was found doesn’t mean GW didn’t have the one he owned that he bought with CN present on him . But again its JMO.
 
Which in MO it would leave alot of holes in JW proffer.
I think the prosecution cleared up the holes in Jake's testimony and that the evidence plus Jake's having to go along with his own testimony that he gave the prosecution (a proffer is simply his testimony) will convince the jury George was totally involved in what the prosecution says:

The planning, the preparation, the execution and the cover up.

On top of that Angela places George going out to the crime scenes, agrees with Jake's testimony, says George voted for and wanted the murders, and bought the shoes for him.

It was said in a hearing that the defense's defense was destroyed by Jake and Angela admitting it was their family who committed the crimes, not some other people out there somewhere including drug dealers or cartels or anyone else with feelings of vengeance.

FW's deposition of who else may have committed the murders was cancelled.
 
Canepa does not seem worried about GW’s defense. The investigation gave the prosecution a lot of evidence that alined with some of JW’s proffer. The locations of the guns was the icing on the cake. IMO

It is extremely rare that you get off on murder when 2 of your own co-defendants turn State's evidence against you and admit you were involved.

The prosecution says it has enough evidence on George to convict him without his co-defendant's testimony but you add in Jake and Angela's testimony plus the shoe expert testimony, plus several other factors and the entirety of the evidence becomes overwhelming that George was involved, went along, and knew everything, and did nothing to stop it every step of the way.

Ohio law is clear and Deering will instruct the jury accordingly. And sentence George accordingly. Glock man probably won't be his nick name in maximum security. With George's revenge and breaking out of jail statements I doubt the Ohio prison system will put him in a low classification. Jake is a level 5 felon I think just being in jail.

The jury has strong reasons to believe Jake and Angela's testimony besides the evidence. Angela already has 30 years and Jake already has life sentences. It's not like they need to lie to get reduced sentences like alot of defendants do.
 
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Right, when Jake takes witness stand he must stick to the conditions of his plea deal or the death penalty will be added back to the charges. What a mess it will create if Jake doesn't tell the story Prosecution is expecting to hear.
I hope to hear the prosecution say, can I treat JW AW as hostile witnesses.
 
I hope to hear the prosecution say, can I treat JW AW as hostile witnesses.

Jake and Angela do not want the DP. They are not going to jeopardize the 4 of them getting the DP. Not worth it. They will both stick to the scripted script that the prosecution runs through with them, and counter all the defense arguments.

The prosecution will have practice runs with them being under direct and cross examination. Who in their right mind wants to get the DP plus see their entire family get the DP?

They may want to get George off but they proved they want the DP off the table even more or they would say George stayed home with Angie and knew nothing.
 
Dumb question but..

Does anyone know whether or not B3 is allowed to be among other people who might secretly pass him info from what's going on in the trial or opening statements? Or is he totally isolated?

Maybe this would help answer the question.

Can anyone find it?

I just read yesterday but can't find it that even Angela's and Jake's attorneys agree that Jake and Angela should have their privileges suspended until they testify to keep them from hearing any information about the trial. I think watching the news, reading news papers, phone calls, mail etc.....

I think stuff like that. I doubt they would isolate them, solitary confinement seems extreme. But you are correct. Others could still fill them in.

Anyway, I know for sure I read something about this and if anybody on here can find the article on this subject I'd appreciate it.
 

What George Wagner IV's Defense Lawyer …

George Wagner IV’s Lawyer Blames Brother, Mom, and Dad for Pike County Massacre, Says Client Is Innocent​


INTERESTING THE DEFENSE'S POINT OF VIEW - NASH'S DEFENSE FOR GEORGE:

MOLESTATION NOT CUSTODY.......

Lawyer Richard Nash laid blame at the feet of his client’s co-defendants. His client’s father George “Billy” Wagner III came up with the idea to commit the killings, while George Wagner IV’s brother Edward “Jake” Wagner and their mother Angela Wagner were brought into the plot and helped plan, the defense maintained.

Jake Wagner was the sole gunman who killed eight people across four different locations in Pike County, Ohio, through the night of April 21, 2016 into the early morning of April 22, Nash said. Jake Wagner nonetheless implicated his father George Wagner III in killing someone, the attorney said.

But Nash told jurors that Jake, who pleaded guilty to murder and agreed to testify, will say that George IV had nothing to do with the planning of these murders, that George IV shot no one, and that George IV did nothing to destroy any evidence. The attorney maintained there is no reliable evidence his client planned these murders, prepared for the murders, or shot any one.

George Wagner IV could not control what he was born into, though he told investigators that he could not believe his family would carry out violent crimes, defense lawyer Nash said. The attorney described his client as being different from the rest of the family. He described a distance, saying that his client once got into a fistfight with George Wagner III because his client disagreed with how the family functions. Nash blasted Angela as a “con artist” who set fire to her home multiple times to get insurance money. Jake, who was also a professional thief, did the same with vehicles, Nash said.

At 16, he ran away from home after getting his driver’s license, the attorney said. Though he had to return, he took every opportunity to avoid home as much as he could, Nash said.

As for Tabitha or Tabby as Nash called her, she voluntarily signed an agreement regarding custody of her son with George IV. The former couple had gotten married too young and eventually obtained a dissolution, the lawyer said. Nash told jurors that she refused her mother’s offer to hire an attorney. Tabby reviewed the agreement, went to a courtroom, spoke to a judge and said she accepted the document, Nash said.

George IV had no motive to kill the victims, he said. Frankie Rhoden was among his closest friends, and Hanna May Rhoden was like a little sister to him, the attorney said.

His family members had motive, however, the attorney said. Denying that “custody” had anything to do with it, he said that Angela had unfounded delusions that Hanna and Jake’s young daughter was being molested. Jake, who was an abusive and jealous young man toward Hanna, could not stand that she had moved on with her life and was with other men, Nash said. Angela convinced Jake that the child was at risk of being molested. Regarding father George III, Nash alluded to drugs.

Angela at first suggested turning Christopher Sr. in to the police for drugs, but George III stopped that because it hit too close to home, Nash said. Angela allegedly said that George III suggested that they must kill the Rhoden family. Jake was told. He said that he wanted to frame Hanna’s boyfriend as the killer, but his father said no, Nash said. George III created the plan, and Jake and Angela went along with it, the defense said.

The first time that George IV learned of the killings was on April 22, 2016, Nash said. Unusually, Jake woke up before his brother. They did some work on their family property and eventually received a call from a man named Andrew Carson. According to Nash, Carson told Jake that Hanna May had been murdered with six of her relatives (Kenneth had not been found dead at the time). Jake put on an act worthy of an Academy Award, acting like Carson was the first to tell him, Nash said.
 
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I think the shell casings were not picked up at at Frankie's place because the shooter was in a huge rush to get out of there. Additionally, there was a lot of clutter at Frankies, maybe the casings could not quickly be found
That seems like a good possibility. I also don't discount the stress of committing multiple murders producing mistakes, e.g., missed casings, stepping in blood, etc.
 
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