OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #82

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justtrish said:
The problem I think with figuring out exactly where they parked is they moved Chris Sr's truck so the silver truck might not be in the exact spot it was when they initially pulled in and were hiding in the back. I think we can get a good idea based on trajectory of those bullets fired and seeing the silver truck sitting there it is close to where the trajectory comes from. I'd say maybe they pulled in behind there. I'd love to see what Chris Sr house looked like in the dark at night with just the porch light on or any lights on the buildings out there to see how lit up it was. I have a feeling out in the country where this was, it was dark and they could slighter out of that truck with no problem. I'd love to know which building they walked to because it seems to me, if we are facing Chris's trailer from the driveway area the grow building was to the left and Frankie's trailer was to the right. If that's the case and they drove in even at a slight angle with the front being more to the left and the back more to the right, then as they walked to the grow over toward the left, they could easily get out of the back of their truck and hide without being seen.

I still really feel like Jake went to Frankie's at this point. If it wasn't really lit up, then I think he went over there to be a lookout for Frankie waking or coming outside. At 11pm Frankie was still awake. I recall testimony that his ex dropped their son off and she stayed until Frankie was home and it was1 10:15 to 10:30 when she left, then Frankie took that photo of his boys close to 11pm. I wonder if the Wagner's saw his ex leave? Did they pass her car on the road. Did they see any lights on at Frankie's at this point? It just doesn't make sense to not have a lookout when Frankie's house was so close.

Another random thought is about Chris's camera system. I wonder if Kenneth had access to the video? Our cameras are motion activated and my husband get's alerts to his phone, but he turns it off during the day because it picks up trees blowing, birds, cats, kids playing, etc.. So the battery would drain quickly if he left them on all day and he'd be getting 100s of notifications.. lol I wonder if Chris Sr had the cameras off when he was home? Would that be something Billy knew? If they weren't off, could Kenneth see if he was alerted of activity? They took the camera equipment AFTER the killed Chris and Gary.. so what if there was footage somewhere? Did they know there wouldn't be, but took them just in case?
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The grow they talked about visiting was in the loft above the two car garage, to the right of Chris's trailer, as you face the trailer.
 
arielilane said:

Now on record about the wiretap transcripts and recordings without jury. There are two dozen portions of the recordings going to be introduced. Deering wants to make sure transcripts were accurate. Defense and prosecution were to agree on what is on transcripts.

Defense says most are ok - but there are some transcripts they disagree with. They also only got some of them today. Judge asks why some were only provided today? Canepa says they are only getting 2-3 hours sleep a night.

Transcripts are 412 pages long. Analyst working on trimming down audio. Now we're up to transcripts of 26 recordings total.

Some were just text messages as well - actually 28 total documents. Defense were prepared to argue which ones they agree with and which ones they don't. In chronological order.

Going off the record as two sides get together and organize transcripts and which ones defense objects to. Also giving cautionary instruction to that transcripts are listening aid and not evidence. Recordings are evidence.

Defense argues some are so clear they don't need a transcript as listening aid.

Jury would only get transcripts in court while recordings are played in court - not entered into evidence and they wouldn't get transcripts while deliberating.
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"Jury would only get transcripts in court while recordings are played in court - not entered into evidence and they wouldn't get transcripts while deliberating."

That just doesn't seem logical, at all!? Why in the world would agreed upon transcripts not be entered into evidence nor allowed the deliberations!? JMO
 
Chelly said:
Watching this morning's live stream: Parker, while cross examining Scheiderer this morning, was standing shoulder to shoulder to this witness for several minutes. It appeared very intimidating. They were reading from the same sheets of paper. Parker seemed to be trying to rattle Scheiderer.
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I noticed his close proximity and shouted at him to get out of Schneider space. He should have been called out for that. AND it's not the first time!
 
altojack said:
I noticed his close proximity and shouted at him to get out of Schneider space. He should have been called out for that. AND it's not the first time!
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Parker stated before he approached him he was going to read over his shoulder. To help Schneider pin point what Parker was stating. Parker was stating comments that Schneider needed assistance finding on HIS paperwork he had. Parker was just trying to move it a long and Schneider nodded in acceptance.
 
altojack said:
I noticed his close proximity and shouted at him to get out of Schneider space. He should have been called out for that. AND it's not the first time!
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I know....he did it to one of the young female witnesses earlier on in the trial. He gets right into the witness' space, shoulder to shoulder and cross examines. So, he and the witness are looking at the same page of testimony in front of the witness. It is creepy and clearly the intent is to fluster the witness. Judge should never allowed that. "May I approach, your honor" does not mean getting into the witness's face.
 
Chelly said:
Watching this morning's live stream: Parker, while cross examining Scheiderer this morning, was standing shoulder to shoulder to this witness for several minutes. It appeared very intimidating. They were reading from the same sheets of paper. Parker seemed to be trying to rattle Scheiderer.
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Doesn't look like he had much success.
justtrish said:
Interesting exchange between Agent Scheiderer and defense. He was basically questioning Scheiderer's integrity because he lied on Topix? So it's okay for you to lie to the public, but it's illegal for the public to lie to you? I literally LOL'd at that one. First of all nobody knew that he was BCI on that forum trying to stir the pot. I'd say only the murders would know what was a lie and what wasn't. People say anything they want on forums. I loved his response that it's not illegal to lie to the police unless it hinders an investigation. Then, Parker trying to suggest that they formed the opinion and tried to make the evidence fit.. nope. Then him arguing it was over custody, but the W's said it was Sophia being SA.. BUT what they were arguing for was custody. The fact that they accused any and every person around this child of some type of inappropriate touching would suggest that this was a bull#### excuse that Angela fabricated to get control (custody) of Sophia. They aren't different motives at all, just more attempts to confuse the case.

The big theme was control, the what was custody of Sophia, the how was claiming SA and using that to fuel a plan to make that happen. I think because other plans were considered (just killing Hannah and Corey, tuning Chris Sr in for drugs, going to court for custody) we can see what the goal was and that was getting Sophia, but the way they did it was not finalized until they ruled out other options. I think Angela used the possible SA of Sophia as a way to control and get the boys so fired up or maybe just Billy. Angela had to manipulate the situation in some way to get Billy to come up with the bright idea that murder was the only option. Then, he did.

If this was only about SA of Sophia, they would have taken her to a doctor and/or went to the police.
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Correct! Angela was desperate because Hanna had left their abusive household and was living with her family, raising S, getting on with her life. Angela and Jake panicked, instead of just going to court. The problem was the best Jake could hope for was shared custody.

The best they could do was "demonize" the Rhoden family, make up horrible rumors about them and get themselves stirred up to murder them. They didn't stop with murder, either. They continued to post false, defamatory information about them on social media and continue to do the same on the witness stand.

None of the Wagners will ever show remorse or admit what they did was wrong.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
And it defies imagination that, even if there was no kitchen table discussion about murdering the Rhoden, Jake wouldn't have told his brother that he was going to murder the whole Rhoden family, short of the babies. And common sense-wise, it defies imagination that Billy wouldn't bring the so-called smarter and stronger brother, given how wary he was of Chris, Sr., Kenneth, and Frankie. For all the Wagners, knew, half the Rhoden family might have been up at Chris's.

But mostly, the whole family would have more incentive to say George wasn't at the murder scene than to say he was. Why would Jake lie to convict George? Why would ANGIE lie to convict George? That would make no sense.
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You state this so perfect. If I may add to it, JW wants his brother out. JW must testify against his brother to take the DP off the table. Jake will, IMO, downplay every action GW4 took that night. Jake will, IMO, downplay as much as he can get away with and still satisfy the prosecution.

Couple of examples:
IMO, Jake didn't know if prints were on the gun (etc), so he stated GW4 held the gun but wouldn't shoot.
IMO, GW4 wanted to protect Jake, not from Billy, but the Rhodens.

It makes no sense to me for Jake to place GW4 at the murder scene if GW4 wasn't there. IMO, Jake felt the prosecution knew GW4 was there and had to admit it to get the DP off the table.

I "think" the Wagner family has hopes that GW4 will somehow at least try to break the others out of prison. I "think" the Wagner family has discussed this during their meetings regarding what to do if any or all of them are arrested. I would love to know if they also watched 'Prison Break". I think the family wants one of them on the outside to take care of them and other things.
 
Betty P said:
Doesn't look like he had much success.
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You are correct. Scheiderer is unflappable and handled Parker's intimidation well. However, Judge should never allow a defense attorney to get right up to a witnesses face during cross examination. It is totally inappropriate courtroom behavior. Scheiderer has been an excellent witness for prosecution throughout entire trial.
 
Pru2U said:
No "WTF was that about"? moment from the supposedly blissfully ignorant & innocent George Washington Wagner IV? The same GWIV who ranted and raved about Tabi being at border? The same one who told his son BCI wanted to kill him? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

At the very minimum, GW4 was an accessory after the fact. AT MINIMUM.
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This right here. I'd be all up in arms! Me: Y'all, this ain't no normal border stop! What? You think we're BUGGED?! WHY?! What. IS. GOING. ON?! Did y'all kill someone or something? Y'all killed the Rs and HHG didn't you?! I knew it!! I want out at the next #$%^'n town, (now, if I didn't have to lug this kid with me). Hush 'vine. I'm trying to get us OUT of this vehicle. Gets out, finds a ride home to Ohio. --- That's just me.
 
Willow Knight said:
You state this so perfect. If I may add to it, JW wants his brother out. JW must testify against his brother to take the DP off the table. Jake will, IMO, downplay every action GW4 took that night. Jake will, IMO, downplay as much as he can get away with and still satisfy the prosecution.

Couple of examples:
IMO, Jake didn't know if prints were on the gun (etc), so he stated GW4 held the gun but wouldn't shoot.
IMO, GW4 wanted to protect Jake, not from Billy, but the Rhodens.

It makes no sense to me for Jake to place GW4 at the murder scene if GW4 wasn't there. IMO, Jake felt the prosecution knew GW4 was there and had to admit it to get the DP off the table.

I "think" the Wagner family has hopes that GW4 will somehow at least try to break the others out of prison. I "think" the Wagner family has discussed this during their meetings regarding what to do if any or all of them are arrested. I would love to know if they also watched 'Prison Break". I think the family wants one of them on the outside to take care of them and other things.
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Wonder if the plan could've been to let Billy die in the attack, collect insurance, pass go ... Just theory that popped in after reading your post.
 
Jmo Jake and Angela have shown a pattern to lie about people to justify their crimes. I personally can not say they will lie about the victims but no one else or even they won’t lie on each other. A liar lies. Jake loves to hear himself talk. No one can really separate out for sure what is lies and what is truth. The ones that could are no longer here and ones that are here will never tell the true story. Jmo
 
Johnny B Bad said:
Sorry Raisnback
But you can argue all you want to, but I will always believe GW4 was there the night of the murders and remember what Jake said, he said that he shot Chris Sr in the arm and that he heard Billy shoot 2 more times and then Billy ran out in a state of saying I just killed my best friend then Jake got Chris Se key and went to the hot house SO who shot Chris Sr 7 more times and or Gary 2 more of the 4 he was shot???? JMO
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Did I miss the prosecution asking Jake about this? What you just stated is perfect, why can't the DA ask Jake this just as you did? So much to comprehend in this case, the jury needs it plain and simple to sink in.
 
Myland said:
Jmo Jake and Angela have shown a pattern to lie about people to justify their crimes. I personally can not say they will lie about the victims but no one else or even they won’t lie on each other. A liar lies. Jake loves to hear himself talk. No one can really separate out for sure what is lies and what is truth. The ones that could are no longer here and ones that are here will never tell the true story. Jmo
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Concocting ugly lies about their victims is how Wagners justify their actions. I think the Wagners sick minds will always believe these were righteous murders.
 
sunshineray said:
"Jury would only get transcripts in court while recordings are played in court - not entered into evidence and they wouldn't get transcripts while deliberating."

That just doesn't seem logical, at all!? Why in the world would agreed upon transcripts not be entered into evidence nor allowed the deliberations!? JMO
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I understood it to be because there might be defense objections to exactly what is heard. So they will allow the transcripts to be there for the sake of following along the recordings in court, but the transcripts are not to be taken as fact. The recording is the evidence so if the jurors want to hear those again they can, but if they provide the transcripts to take for deliberations then the jurors would take the exact translations to be the evidence when it isn't, it's the recording itself, which could be open to interpretation if there is any question on what a word or phrase is. The state had them transcribed, but people are not perfect and of course the defense would object to any transcripts that say something super incriminating. I guess they think if the recording it even a little iffy then the jurors might not hear the same incriminating thing as what the transcriptionist did.
 
Chelly said:
Concocting ugly lies about their victims is how Wagners justify their actions. I think the Wagners sick minds will always believe these were righteous murders.
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this might be my biggeest issue with angelas plea bargain. she did not even feign remorse. if anything she reaffirmed her position that the murders were justified. i just can not wrap my head around how it went from "no ones getting a deal they all going to get dp" to letting this evil cow retain hope. for a release date. and have the gaul to tell the jury she made the deal in hopes of reconnecting with her family and the grandkids on the outside of prison. if i was a rhoden family member in the courtroom i may have attacked her when those words came out of her mouth. i just cant even. it goes against every concept of justice. i despise jake he deserved to die too. but his deal was a huge win for the families. angelas was a slap in the face
 
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