OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

Status
Not open for further replies.

pepper 34

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
11,923
I fear that what comes out at trial will be ghastly beyond words. It's already all ghastly, but for me there's a looming sense of awfulness like the leaden antifreeze-green sky before unspeakable weather. I don't normally follow true crime. It gives me the heebie-jeebies. Because, I'm a domestic violence survivor. Not at the hands or the mind of a spouse, but at those of a family member. True crime isn't my thing because for decades I lived true crime - if that makes any sense. I could have been, in the end, one of those family headlines. I'm safe now, because he is dead, happily, from a pickled liver. Yay! :cool: But - when I saw Leonard Manley, from the beginning - clear, honest, endearing - he's like a lot of old-timers I knew when I was a kid in New England in the late '50s-early '60s - all long long gone now :(. There's a clarity to these people. The reporters asking him "how he felt" - he finally, exasperated, said, "We lost eight people!" He didn't say, "Can't you understand?" But he'd have been justified had he done so. I knew people like Leonard when I was a kid, then later in other places as an adult. They have a refreshingly short rope for nonsense. You can lean on them. They might live in tin shacks but you can lean on them. Between the sheer logistical insanity of the crime and my instant identification with what I saw of some of the extended family, I never could take my eyes away from the thing. Defense may well try to chuck the Rhodens under the character bus but as others have noted it will backfire if they do. I daresay perhaps the Wagners thought that no one would care about this crime and these people. Think again. I've awoken in the dark to a family member standing over me with a gun or kitchen knife in hand. I know what that moment, those moments are. They are beyond description. Time elongates, stretches out like a rubber band, you think of the dark and its comforts and the stars and how these have just been perverted into a nightmare and how this is the end and you shall shortly travel into those stars forever. And what it takes, for the person doing it to do it, is the absolute vacating of one's soul, assuming one is present to begin with - because you look, and see this, in their eyes.

Beautiful comment.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,050
Reaction score
67,568
I believe the pot has already been posted in this forum and stated by investigators Jmo.

Growing a little pot is not a violent crime, certainly not remotely comparable to murdering 8 innocent people in their homes, while they sleep with their infants nearby. But I think you already know that.

But I do agree with you: I hope the defense tries to bring up negative things about the Rhodens at the Wagners' trials. It will really convince the jury to vote for the DP, demonstrate all kinds of motive for Wagners to commit the murders.
 

Myland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
655
Reaction score
2,473
Growing a little pot is not a violent crime, certainly not remotely comparable to murdering 8 innocent people in their homes, while they sleep with their infants nearby. But I think you already know that.

But I do agree with you, I hope the defense tries to bring up negative things about the Rhodens at the Wagners' trials. It will really convince the jury to vote for the DP.
Yes I agree I believe I stated that also that it did not compare to murder Jmo
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,050
Reaction score
67,568
I fear that what comes out at trial will be ghastly beyond words. It's already all ghastly, but for me there's a looming sense of awfulness like the leaden antifreeze-green sky before unspeakable weather. I don't normally follow true crime. It gives me the heebie-jeebies. Because, I'm a domestic violence survivor. Not at the hands or the mind of a spouse, but at those of a family member. True crime isn't my thing because for decades I lived true crime - if that makes any sense. I could have been, in the end, one of those family headlines. I'm safe now, because he is dead, happily, from a pickled liver. Yay! :cool: But - when I saw Leonard Manley, from the beginning - clear, honest, endearing - he's like a lot of old-timers I knew when I was a kid in New England in the late '50s-early '60s - all long long gone now :(. There's a clarity to these people. The reporters asking him "how he felt" - he finally, exasperated, said, "We lost eight people!" He didn't say, "Can't you understand?" But he'd have been justified had he done so. I knew people like Leonard when I was a kid, then later in other places as an adult. They have a refreshingly short rope for nonsense. You can lean on them. They might live in tin shacks but you can lean on them. Between the sheer logistical insanity of the crime and my instant identification with what I saw of some of the extended family, I never could take my eyes away from the thing. Defense may well try to chuck the Rhodens under the character bus but as others have noted it will backfire if they do. I daresay perhaps the Wagners thought that no one would care about this crime and these people. Think again. I've awoken in the dark to a family member standing over me with a gun or kitchen knife in hand. I know what that moment, those moments are. They are beyond description. Time elongates, stretches out like a rubber band, you think of the dark and its comforts and the stars and how these have just been perverted into a nightmare and how this is the end and you shall shortly travel into those stars forever. And what it takes, for the person doing it to do it, is the absolute vacating of one's soul, assuming one is present to begin with - because you look, and see this, in their eyes.

Yes, great comment and insight.

I also dread the details being revealed at the trials. We may not understand it, but need to hear it. The actions of these supremely evil people should not be swept under the rug.
 

iridized

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
285
Reaction score
899
She sounds like a very beautiful girl. I am betting she will have the sense to make good decisions. That's all any of us can hope for with our kids.

I know what you mean about worrying with girls. I have a new great grand daughter who was born last August. She is absolutely beautiful and I know I am going to be doing some serious talking to her when she is older about making the right life decisions. Like finishing college with a doctorate before she even thinks about marriage and kids. Even then waiting until she is well established in a career.
That is how my parents and I were raised and how I raised my children. Do your best in school, honor roll was expected, not going to university was not an option. Grad school was encouraged. Post grad if desired. After school is finished and you are established in your career and have finances in order marriage and children could commence, but not before the age of 30 for marriage. Don't have more children than you can afford to educate. My mother made it very clear that if she was a grandmother before the age of 65 she would be totally embarrassed. High exceptions were the norm. I grew up with not watching television as did my children. Reading for pleasure was encouraged. Computer usage was for school work only. When you got your driver's license you got your first cell phone. Dating only after 16 with a curfew of 10:00 or 11:00 and only on Friday or Saturday nights. If you had someone of the other sex visiting at your house it was only in the living room, family room, kitchen, or pool area, and only on weekends. We were kept busy with hobbies, chores, doing experiments, sports if wanted, exploring our environment, and service to the community. You could have a job as long as grades were kept up but the paycheck was split three ways - 1/2 you could spend, 1/2 was into a savings account for something that you really wanted - like a first car, horse, etc., and the last 1/3 was into another savings account for your retirement. If you wanted to go over to someone else's house we had to know the child well, know the siblings, the parents, as well as any household help. Parents communicated so that we would know who would be watching our children. I'm sure many parents went the extra mile and had families investigated by their security force. If you lied you got into double trouble, if you got into trouble at school for any reason you were grounded for a long long time. You treated everyone with respect be it the neighbors, the bus driver, the yard man, whoever. You had good table manners no later than the age of 4 and never ever would consider wearing a hat indoors. You knew how to introduce yourself and others. If someone asked for help you helped with a smile on your face. You were raised to leave this world a better place. And you were expected to make your own way knowing that when your parents died the assets were going to charitable organizations. You took care of your help as well as their families, be it housing, education, whatever the need would be. Most of all, it was ingrained in all to make wise decisions always and not to be impulsive. Sleep on all big decisions. Children only evolve to the expectations that you set.
 

altojack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
9,468
I think this played a role as to their planning, too. Based on the time of year, and the space available, I think they may have had CR1's trailer stripped down, and was using it for one of the grows. Iirc LM stated that CR1's trailer was "basically a shell".

That's how I read it, the trailer was gutted in places, a shell. The following is JMO He had a grow in his trailer, don't know how bedrooms he had but plenty space for a crude indoor grow. When I say crude I mean minus a hydroponic system. No fancy equipment either, the plants were watered my hand every day. Looking at the arial views who's trailer had what looked as if they had sky light panels on the roof? It would take a longer time to grow that way than it would with a lighting system.
 
Last edited:

pepper 34

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
11,923
That's how I read it. The following is JMO He had a grow in his trailer, don't know how bedrooms he had but plenty space for a crude indoor grow. When I say crude I mean minus a hydroponic system. No fancy equipment either, the plants were watered my hand every day. Looking at the arial views who's trailer had what looked as if they had sky light panels on the roof? It would take a longer time to grow that way than it would with a lighting system.

Chris Sr's trailer and Frankie's trailer (see below) ...there are no skylights on these trailers (just tarps on Frankie's most likely due to leaking roof. There were no skylights in Kenneth's small trailer or on the few outbuilding on his property. According to DS, there was "a tray" of plants found in Kenneth's shed. There was a large building next to Chris Sr's trailer... also no skylights but was large enough to accommodate some pot. I don't think it's ever been said or determined (except by LE) where the pot was being grown or even how much of it was found by LE. LE began by saying, "large grow operation" and now it's an "undercurrent" of drugs and was not the main focus of the murders"...(paraphrased) If Chris Sr was growing pot in his own trailer, he would have to have had a light system imo, because, as you can see in the photo, the windows are covered up.
 

Attachments

  • 5fe02ece-2713-4b48-9134-f7a4ce49eee0-large16x9_RhodenfamilyWSYX.jpg
    5fe02ece-2713-4b48-9134-f7a4ce49eee0-large16x9_RhodenfamilyWSYX.jpg
    68.1 KB · Views: 51
  • ABC_Multiple_Fatalities_Ohio_02_jrl_160422_4x3_992.jpg
    ABC_Multiple_Fatalities_Ohio_02_jrl_160422_4x3_992.jpg
    102.6 KB · Views: 46

MittenScarpetta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,830
Reaction score
8,332
I don't see CR1 and DR as being naive about such stuff considering their ages when they married and had FR, but, maybe the two didn't have relations til she was older. She didn't conceive S til she was six weeks shy of 16.

It's quite possible that both families trusted the children to supervise themselves. I've seen that happen far too much. "As long as they sleep on top of the covers, we allow the bf/gf to stay over..." Mind boggling. At least try. You may not succeed, but try. What's done is done. There is no going back. S was welcomed with much love. It's a shame it all turned to such hate.
I agree. I don’t believe they were naive either . Your post reminded me of my Aunt. Most of my family is very religious, my Aunt being one of the devout church goers (I love her greatly, not knocking religion-to each their own). Anyways, when my cousin and I were teens, my cousin took the virginity vow at church. My aunt allowed my cousin and her boyfriend to spend the weekends together at her house as long as they slept in the living room on the sofa bed-because of that virginity vow and she couldn’t imagine they’d have sex in her living rooms My aunt believed they were being celibate. And they were not. And that’s okay. Some parents just offer more trust with their teens than others do.
 

MittenScarpetta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,830
Reaction score
8,332
That's how I read it, the trailer was gutted in places, a shell. The following is JMO He had a grow in his trailer, don't know how bedrooms he had but plenty space for a crude indoor grow. When I say crude I mean minus a hydroponic system. No fancy equipment either, the plants were watered my hand every day. Looking at the arial views who's trailer had what looked as if they had sky light panels on the roof? It would take a longer time to grow that way than it would with a lighting system.
I noticed the other day while again looking at DR’a fb photos, that there’s a photo of a car she was selling and you can slightly see Chris’ trailer in the background. The trailer window which I believe to be a kitchen window is boarded up with plywood. I agree that the trailer itself was most likely a “shell”. I’m still wondering why Chris and Gary were there that night. I suppose they could’ve been staying there. I just think Dana’s new home would’ve been much more comfortable.

Dana Lynn Rhoden
 

altojack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
9,468
Chris Sr's trailer and Frankie's trailer (see below) ...there are no skylights on these trailers (just tarps on Frankie's most likely due to leaking roof. There were no skylights in Kenneth's small trailer or on the few outbuilding on his property. According to DS, there was "a tray" of plants found in Kenneth's shed. There was a large building next to Chris Sr's trailer... also no skylights but was large enough to accommodate some pot. I don't think it's ever been said or determined (except by LE) where the pot was being grown or even how much of it was found by LE. LE began by saying, "large grow operation" and now it's an "undercurrent" of drugs and was not the main focus of the murders"...(paraphrased) If Chris Sr was growing pot in his own trailer, he would have to have had a light system imo, because, as you can see in the photo, the windows are covered up.

I get ya. It's Frankies trailer I was remembering with the blue in the roof. So that puts my theory back in the bin haha. I still have a gut feeling Chris Sr had plants or seedlings in his trailer but smaller than LE had said. Of course it wasn't a bust but murder they were there for.

Could the reason we haven't seen any photos of the so called grow be due the meagre size that was found. I doubt we'll find the truth to that.
 

Gracie55

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
458
Reaction score
1,890
Chris Sr's trailer and Frankie's trailer (see below) ...there are no skylights on these trailers (just tarps on Frankie's most likely due to leaking roof. There were no skylights in Kenneth's small trailer or on the few outbuilding on his property. According to DS, there was "a tray" of plants found in Kenneth's shed. There was a large building next to Chris Sr's trailer... also no skylights but was large enough to accommodate some pot. I don't think it's ever been said or determined (except by LE) where the pot was being grown or even how much of it was found by LE. LE began by saying, "large grow operation" and now it's an "undercurrent" of drugs and was not the main focus of the murders"...(paraphrased) If Chris Sr was growing pot in his own trailer, he would have to have had a light system imo, because, as you can see in the photo, the windows are covered up.
Maybe they were starting seedlings to transplant outside or elsewhere as the weather warmed up.
Windows covered up to hide lights maybe?
 

altojack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2017
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
9,468
I noticed the other day while again looking at DR’a fb photos, that there’s a photo of a car she was selling and you can slightly see Chris’ trailer in the background. The trailer window which I believe to be a kitchen window is boarded up with plywood. I agree that the trailer itself was most likely a “shell”. I’m still wondering why Chris and Gary were there that night. I suppose they could’ve been staying there. I just think Dana’s new home would’ve been much more comfortable.

Dana Lynn Rhoden

Well yes, a darn sight more comfortable but if they Rs had been having trouble, like the couple of weeks before and/or dada W coming to have another talk about custody, making threats to tell LE of Chris's grows it would make sense to me to guard that trailer.
 

MittenScarpetta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,830
Reaction score
8,332
Well yes, a darn sight more comfortable but if they Rs had been having trouble, like the couple of weeks before and/or dada W coming to have another talk about custody, making threats to tell LE of Chris's grows it would make sense to me to guard that trailer.
That’s all I can conclude is that Chris and Gary were there because they were guarding the property. JMO.
 

pepper 34

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
11,923
I get ya. It's Frankies trailer I was remembering with the blue in the roof. So that puts my theory back in the bin haha. I still have a gut feeling Chris Sr had plants or seedlings in his trailer but smaller than LE had said. Of course it wasn't a bust but murder they were there for.

Could the reason we haven't seen any photos of the so called grow be due the meagre size that was found. I doubt we'll find the truth to that.

No, your theory of growing seedlings in Chris Sr's trailer is probably correct. Just the method might be wrong. Yes, I believe "meager size was found."
I think the "3 grow sites" were:
1) Chris Sr's trailer, in a bedroom or two down the hall.
2) Frankie's trailer.. same location... down the hall in a bedroom or two. I say this because his little boy was sleeping on the couch in the living room. Now, he might have been timid about sleeping way down the hall in a bedroom all by himself... but, it might be a bedroom was all taken up with pot seedlings, too. There's no way to know for sure.
3) Kenneth and his great big tray of seedlings or baby plants.

There was never any evidence that LE was out in the woods pulling down and burning or loading up baby pot plants for removal. Local MSM would not have missed that story, imo. So, you can only jam so many pot plants into a couple of trailers and a shed. If Chris Sr was using that huge building, that would be a different story... but, again, how did MSM miss that kind of action going on if LE had to clear all the plants out of a huge building? I just don't think there were that many plants. I don't know why Governor DeWine said, "major grow" but I don't believe that unless MSM was forbidden to cover the story. I can't imagine why they wouldn't have been allowed to cover the story since it had already been written that "a major grow" had been discovered. JMO.
 

rsd1200

If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
10,052
Reaction score
22,850
Exactly. I picture both sides attorneys coming into the courtroom lugging big cloth bags of dirty laundry with labels, "Rhodens" and "Wagners." They pull the strings loose and tip the bags upside down and shake the bags, while the jury holds their collective breath waiting to see what falls out of the bags and who has the biggest pile of dirty laundry. It's okay for us to discuss all that here but most of it will never get into the courtroom unless it's relevant to the current murder cases.
The jury isn't going to hear that Angela stole some boots years ago and they're not going to hear that Dana slapped someone's face years ago. If growing weed has nothing to do with the murders, then the jury won't even hear that Chris Sr grew some pot. If the pot Chris Sr was growing has something to do with the murders then we'll finally find out how much was being grown. The prosecution's case pretty much decides what will be talked about and then they're careful not to open any doors for the defense to walk through. The defense has to meet with the judge about what questionable subjects they might want to present. Things that happened soon before the murders might be allowed in but only if the judge feels it won't unfairly prejudice the jury.
I think one of the most important things is that the defense attorneys have to be very careful not to villainize the victims. That usually backfires on them. Every person knows the plotted, sneaky and brutal murdering of people while they are sleeping is indefensible on every level. Even if the murdered did grow pot or ride their dune buggy down the street too often and without a good muffler system, and had a very messy yard, to boot.
And the jury won't find out about the Wagner's weird colored red house or multiple deer heads or even one of them pointing a gun at another driver, either. That's just the stuff we talk about.

BBM
That, they might get to hear. There may be things that that the prosecution brings up, that shows a pattern of behaviour, that would show a jury, how the Ws got to this point. Most folks don't just live stellar, spotless, lives, and murder a family of eight. That's a lot for folks to grasp. Show them a pattern of behaviour that ultimately led them to murder eight people, to get their way, and that's going to make them see a pattern of negative behaviour, over a course of years. I'd not be surprised if drug use, by someone in the W family of four, rears its' head, at some point into this.
 

Alisha8191

Active Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
121
Reaction score
228
They haven't shown anything in this case from the beginning onward.

I live on an island, Lido Key outside of Sarasota. We have people living here from all over the US, actually several countries as well. I can guarantee we have no one from the Pike County area living here. I don't think they would feel comfortable.

I lived in Sarasota too, I am in ky now. I lived on Fruitville Road. been to Lido Beach many times.
 

pepper 34

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
1,293
Reaction score
11,923
BBM
That, they might get to hear. There may be things that that the prosecution brings up, that shows a pattern of behaviour, that would show a jury, how the Ws got to this point. Most folks don't just live stellar, spotless, lives, and murder a family of eight. That's a lot for folks to grasp. Show them a pattern of behaviour that ultimately led them to murder eight people, to get their way, and that's going to make them see a pattern of negative behaviour, over a course of years. I'd not be surprised if drug use, by someone in the W family of four, rears its' head, at some point into this.

Yes, but wouldn't it still have to be run by the judge first? The defense would argue it was prejudicial, I think, even though I don't think it is. (I think a judge would allow it. I've been driving for 51 and never once thought of trying to "solve" a driving conflict that way. I don't shoot my car radio when a song comes on that I don't like either! Where do you draw the line, I want to know...) What I found interesting is that the gun was apparently in Angela's purse after the incident... so probably in the purse before the incident. If that is correct... she had to pull it out and hand it to Wag 3d... did he ask for it or was it her idea to just hand it to him. I would like to know the answer to that question!
 

MittenScarpetta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,830
Reaction score
8,332
No, your theory of growing seedlings in Chris Sr's trailer is probably correct. Just the method might be wrong. Yes, I believe "meager size was found."
I think the "3 grow sites" were:
1) Chris Sr's trailer, in a bedroom or two down the hall.
2) Frankie's trailer.. same location... down the hall in a bedroom or two. I say this because his little boy was sleeping on the couch in the living room. Now, he might have been timid about sleeping way down the hall in a bedroom all by himself... but, it might be a bedroom was all taken up with pot seedlings, too. There's no way to know for sure.
3) Kenneth and his great big tray of seedlings or baby plants.

There was never any evidence that LE was out in the woods pulling down and burning or loading up baby pot plants for removal. Local MSM would not have missed that story, imo. So, you can only jam so many pot plants into a couple of trailers and a shed. If Chris Sr was using that huge building, that would be a different story... but, again, how did MSM miss that kind of action going on if LE had to clear all the plants out of a huge building? I just don't think there were that many plants. I don't know why Governor DeWine said, "major grow" but I don't believe that unless MSM was forbidden to cover the story. I can't imagine why they wouldn't have been allowed to cover the story since it had already been written that "a major grow" had been discovered. JMO.
There were no grows found at Frankie’s. 2 were found on Chris’ property and one was found at Kenny’s.

ETA-consider that DR, HMR, CR2, and SW had just moved out of FR’s home one month prior to the murders. IMO, there was some remodeling going on at FR’s which included redoing a bedroom for B. HHG had some shares on her fb about bedroom themes for B, IIRC. B was perhaps sleeping on the couch because that’s where he fell asleep, maybe watching tv. There were many times in my child raising years that one of my children fell asleep watching tv and their father and I left them sleeping on the couch. JMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top