OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[Myland]

It may be that the wounds are all spaced in an equal distance or certain pattern, rather than a random pattern...

JMo but that seems odd to me that there would be a pattern. I agree with you that was the meaning of it but just odd that they would shoot her that way. It has to have some meaning if it was done that way. Jmo

 

[Jonas_Klein]

In a news release, it stated she was shot four times across the forehead, once in the temple, and once under the chin. Methodically means deliberate, orderly, so, without going further, I have come to think that DR's death was even more gruesome, and was meant to be.

Maybe multiple firearms involved although the scene seems nearly impossible.

Btw, each of the accused is charged with the same counts and the same specifications. Does it mean LE believes each of them went in each house with each a suppressor? Or does it mean LE charges everybody as a group to determine the participation of each later in court?

What do you think? The same charges for everyone make it look like they dont really know the role of the defendants in detail. Otherwise it means LE can prove who shot whom and everybody participated equally. I doubt, it's that simple.

Anyone expert on prosecutions?

Edit: improved for understanding

 

[Normrock]

I'm not so sure the defense is going to try to justify the suppressors by tying the use of them with hunting. If the materials from the suppressor(s) is found inside the murdered people's wounds... bringing the hunting into it won't help the Wags imo. By my way of thinking, that's like me being accused of killing someone with a serrated knife and my defense attorney says,
"Oh, yes... but she can have serrated knives because she uses them to cut her steak and bread."
(But, I can use that serrated knife to kill someone and that's what I'm being accused of.) How does this help me in my defense?

The materials from suppressors can be from everyday items that millions of people buy everyday. Say if cottons balls were used in the suppressors. How are LE going to say that material came for that particular bag of cotton balls? The FBI for decades said they could tell if a bullet came from a certain batch of lead. It was voodoo science and many people are still in prison because of it.
FBI Laboratory Announces Discontinuation of Bullet Lead Examinations

Also, can you expand on knife analogy it kind of confused me.

 

[Normrock]

The problems that I would have, as a juror, would be, if the W's attys. could not present me with a copy of the W's applications, receipts for federal criminal background checks, and, most importantly, approvals for their application(s) to the BATFE, to obtain said silencer(s) legally, then they've once again had no problem with breaking the law to suit themselves.

With the Ws past criminal histories, I would find it surprising that the BATFE would give them approval to own one, let alone more than one (AW is a felon). I understand that they did build their own. Illegal, no matter how you look at it.

One thing I have observed BOTH families operated in gray zones of law.

 

[Myland]

Ms. Gilleys seemed to gruesome too. Also, the CR2 shot twice in top of head.

I agree they seem gruesome, but with Chris junior it would be more of his positioning thing and with HG maybe anger but maybe not being as close up to her and making it a sure thing. But with Dana something odd. Jmo

 

[Normrock]

I agree they seem gruesome, but with Chris junior it would be more of his positioning thing and with HG maybe anger but maybe not being as close up to her and making it a sure thing. But with Dana something odd. Jmo

The shot under chin to me was " coupe de grace" but in a making sure this person is dead dead dead. I wanted to use other words but against TOS.

 

[pepper 34]

I agree. Whether is was to the right side or forehead. Under the chin makes me wonder if the killers had ahold of her. If she screamed and that gave time for cr junior to try to hide.jmo

I agree. I think Dana was subjected to some sort of "speech" or "interrogation" before she was killed while someone held her head up by her hair to make sure she suffered while that took place... she was made to look at her killer, imo. The deliberate pattern of shooting indicates, to me, that someone wanted to savor the moment of her murder even though Dana would probably have been dead after receiving any one of the 5 shots. The killer, imo, still wanted to enjoy what had only been hateful daydreaming up to that point in time, of how he/she would kill her once the opportunity became real. I think Chris Jr. was shot twice in the top of his head because he was jammed in, hiding, between the head of his bed and the bedroom wall. The top of his head might have been all that was visible to the killer at the beginning of his murder. HG "earned" her extra punishment by being the one who introduced her brother to Hanna when Jake still wanted her for himself.
All jmo.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

The shot under chin to me was " coupe de grace" but in a making sure this person is dead dead dead. I wanted to use other words but against TOS.

"Coup de grace" it should be spelled

"Coupe de grace" would be more about cutting like the beheading of capital punishment in France, practiced until 1976.

Edit: i cannot imagine 4 in a row. I guess it's why they stopped doing that

 

[rsd1200]

One thing I have observed BOTH families operated in gray zones of law.

Yes, yes they did. Very gray. Not that I'm fond of the pot farm title, but most folks just wanting to ensure their kids got a good Christmas, can do so with much fewer then 200 plants, if that figure is correct. Let's be real. Five to fifteen tops, and that's a pretty good haul. The Rs were making pretty decent $, off of a couple hundred, but weren't raising enough to hoist lots of red flags.

However, if a former girlfriend, and all of her family dies, and the suspects had an illegal silencer, and the "fluff" from said silencer matched that at the scenes of the deceased, I'm going to give it a lot more leverage, especially since there is no way they'd have had that silencer legally . They built it on their own, with those materials, materials likely found on the persons of the deceased, too, namely, GR who even had a muzzle stamp on his temple.

 

[Myland]

The shot under chin to me was " coupe de grace" but in a making sure this person is dead dead dead. I wanted to use other words but against TOS.

I think the shot under the chin was to shut her up. People don’t always die when shot under the chin, depending on the angle. Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe multiple firearms involved although the scene seems nearly impossible.

Btw, each of the accused is charged with the same counts and the same specifications. Does it mean LE believes each of them went in each house with each a suppressor? Or does it mean LE charges everybody as a group to determine the participation of each later in court?

What do you think? The same charges for everyone make it look like they dont really know the role of the defendants in detail. Otherwise it means LE can prove who shot whom and everybody participated equally. I doubt, it's that simple.

Anyone expert on prosecutions?

Edit: improved for understanding

BBM

I think they know that Ws did this but not who the actual trigger men were at each site, or who drove, or stood as lookout, etc... However, even if they know, each is as guilty as the other, for not stopping this, if they knew it was going down.

 

[pepper 34]

Maybe multiple firearms involved although the scene seems nearly impossible.

Btw, each of the accused is charged with the same counts and the same specifications. Does it mean LE believes each of them went in each house with each a suppressor? Or does it mean LE charges everybody as a group to determine the participation of each later in court?

What do you think? The same charges for everyone make it look like they dont really know the role of the defendants in detail. Otherwise it means LE can prove who shot whom and everybody participated equally. I doubt, it's that simple.

Anyone expert on prosecutions?

Edit: improved for understanding

Equal participation is not necessary to face and be convicted of the same charges in murder cases. The court doesn't have to know who did what. LE knows if they bought 4 pairs of special shoes. Even if you just went along for the ride and did nothing else, they might drop the burglary charge but the murder charge would not be dropped. I think being at the scene of a planned and prepared for murder is enough in every state to get murder charges for all of them. Everything gets thrown at the wall for everyone in all 4 trials and the juries decide what sticks for which ones at their own trial. But murder for all 4 is a given imo.
All jmo.

 

[Normrock]

Yes, yes they did. Very gray. Not that I'm fond of the pot farm title, but most folks just wanting to ensure their kids got a good Christmas, can do so with much fewer then 200 plants, if that figure is correct. Let's be real. Five to fifteen tops, and that's a pretty good haul. The Rs were making pretty decent $, off of a couple hundred, but weren't raising enough to hoist lots of red flags.

However, if a former girlfriend, and all of her family dies, and the suspects had an illegal silencer, and the "fluff" from said silencer matched that at the scenes of the deceased, I'm going to give it a lot more leverage, especially since there is no way they'd have had that silencer legally . They built it on their own, with those materials, materials likely found on the persons of the deceased, too, namely, GR who even had a muzzle stamp on his temple.

When I lived over in West Virginia in 60s and early 70s everyone had a still. Like I've said before weed is the new moonshine in rural Appalachia. Still to grow decent weed you have to have grow lights ( it would stifling hot in them trailers) and a recipe (grow plan.) People don't like bunk weed these days. Ironically, all the kids in the holler knew where every still was in a 10 radius.

 

[Normrock]

"Coup de grace" it should be spelled

"Coupe de grace" would be more about cutting like the beheading of capital punishment in France, practiced until 1976.

Edit: i cannot imagine 4 in a row. I guess it's why they stopped doing that

Thanks for correcting me spelling.

Coup de grâce - Wikipedia

 

[waterfalllady]

I’m confused by the new title- were all 8 victims living on a pot farm? Apologies and thanks in advance

I really think the thread name is not appropriate. It reminds me of blaming the victims.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks, but you're very good, Raisin. Here at WS, it's team work combining good research and good analytical skills. JMO, teamwork is most important because someone else is always going to analyze things differently or catch something important that the rest of us missed. Then there are special skills of some folks here at WS who are experts in legal, medical and other fields. Everyone brings something different to the table.

I first came here following a case and spent about 3 months or so just reading and seldom commenting. It took me months to contribute anything analytical. You can learn a lot here. TOS makes it fact and evidence based.

You are too kind Betty.

But speaking of research, you researched the autopsy's more than anyone else on here IIRC. DeWine fought the release of them all the way. He said releasing them would impede the investigation and we all tried to guess what was in them that he didn't want out in the public. Do you think those autopsy reports contained information about pieces of the silencers (fluff) lodged in the wounds of the victims? And would that knowledge have allowed the W's to get rid of everything connected to them?

Or do you think there was another reason DeWine didn't want them out? If so what?

If in fact there were pieces of silencer (fluff) in the wounds of the victims and the materials were bought at Walmart by the Wagners and they were able to match those purchases forensically to the pieces in the victims that would be an air tight case IMO.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. Whether is was to the right side or forehead. Under the chin makes me wonder if the killers had ahold of her. If she screamed and that gave time for cr junior to try to hide.jmo

BBM
I think she woke up too, and, based on some other things that I've read, I think the shot under the chin may have been the first, but possibly after learning who her killers were.

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Thanks for correcting me spelling.

Coup de grâce - Wikipedia

Ce fut avec plaisir. You are welcome.

Sorry about the play with words and the dark comment. I couldn't help.

 

[pepper 34]

I think the shot under the chin was to shut her up. People don’t always die when shot under the chin, depending on the angle. Jmo

I think just placing the gun under her chin would do. I had a gun pointed at my head once from about 8 feet away in a small kitchen. (Ain't love grand?) Anyway, in my case, you could have heard a pin drop. I didn't even inhale until it was over, never mind speak. But, I suppose that an individual thing so we'll probably never know for sure exactly how Dana died. Unless someone talks.

 

[OsoTejano]

In the articles from sept 2018 on the autopsy it states Dana was shot methodically 4 times to the right side of her head. Wonder why it states it that way? Then it states she was shot under the chin. Why the methodically part?

I have some disturbing thoughts about this that I will share. DR was probably awake for the killings at her house. One of the killers may have held their weapon under her chin and made her listen to her children being murdered. She was then shot, and fell onto her left side after which one of the killers shot her 4 times on the right side of her face to basically obliterate her face. It was very personal with her killing.