OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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Cool Cats

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Jmo I believe the killers locked the doors to take longer to find the victims. The killers were not concerned with the babies just that they couldn’t bring themselves to kill them. But to the killers the longer the victims went unnoticed the better for them. The killers had no guarantee bm would get the key and start the process of finding the bodies and the babies. Bm stated the doors were normally left unlocked and it surprised her they were locked. So even it the killers were watching the houses they probably never seen bm unlock the doors before. They also didn’t know she would go in. The dogs were outside she didn’t need to go in and feed dogs. The doors were locked to keep people out. If bm hadn’t unlocked that door that morning the baby may not have been found for many many hours and may have died. I don’t believe the killers plan was for bm to unlock the door that morning and start the process that soon. So was Jake lying about thinking the baby was his? Maybe, but if not
there was no guarantee that day she would be alive by the time she was found. Anything could have happened to all the kids. Jmo Jmo
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Myland said:
".....there was no guarantee that day she (Kylie) would be alive by the time she was found. Anything could have happened to all the kids." Jmo
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Sheriff Reader would agree with you because this is Reader's opinion too:

"The judge acknowledged the unusual circumstances of the matter, and said everyone must proceed with care....."
"He pointed out more than once, however, that the killers did seem to purposely spare the children."

"Reader disagreed, saying that even though the children weren't shot, and given the age of especially the newborn, they very well could have died, too, if the scenes had not been quickly discovered."

And I have to agree with the discussion on here that there was no guarantee that BJM would discover the crime scenes as early as she did. Even then, the babies and toddler had been left alone for at least 4 hours.
Pike County sheriff: Rhoden children still in danger
 
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sunshineray

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It was said in court at Fred's pretrial--2 vests were found.
Here are some interesting things mentioned in court that day:

Wagner’s defense attorneys James Owen and Charles Koenig expressed their displeasure that their ‘demand for discovery’ had not been met.
They argued they’d requested transcripts of Wagner’s testimony in front of a grand jury that happened before they were hired. The attorneys argue the transcripts will provide context of Wagner’s answers and the questions asked during her testimony.

Owen also brought to light that Wagner’s claims that she has impaired hearing and was having difficulty understanding questions at the time of her testimony that he says led to the obstruction and perjury charges.
“She’s a decent person who’s falsely being accused of being on the wrong side of the law,” Owen stated.

During the back and forth between attorneys it was revealed two bulletproof vests were seized by officials in May and were found in Wagner’s son’s room inside her home.
Owen also requested all documents and evidence relating to when the bulletproof vests were found and purchased.

“Fredericka is an honest, decent, law abiding citizen who is falsely accused of being on the wrong side of the law she doesn’t want to create anything that would create any suspicion to the contrary,” Owen said.

Owen also expressed the defense’s desire for a quick trial date so that Wagner could begin writing cards to her loved ones again.

The judge also announced Wagner’s bail be moved from government funding to self-pay.

At the end of the hearing Canepa requested a gag order in the case so that no parties speak to the media ahead of the trial. Owen quickly opposed the order.

“The day the news conference was issued they held a big news conference, they put out all this false information, they made false allegations about Fredericka, and at some point in time, not now, but at some point in time we may want to counter that. So I absolutely oppose it," Owen said. "After they taint the jury pool and put out all sorts of things we think aren’t true, now they want a gag order. We haven’t abused anything, we’ve complied with everything we’ve tried to be as reasonable as we can. I just don’t think there’s any need for it in this case and at some point in time we may want to talk to the press to correct the record.”

Canepa stated that the only thing said to any members of the media was the announcement of the indictments. She also said the state does not plan to speak on the case.

The judge asked both parties to submit their arguments for or against the gag order and he would review them.

Wagner’s next appearance in court will be her second pretrial hearing March 28 at 1:30 p.m.

Purchase of bulletproof vests at center of charges against Wagner matriarch
Cool Cats thank you for that link. Were those two vests found on the first raid then? Do you think her lying about them to Grand Jury is her obstruction charge?
 

sunshineray

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Cool Cats

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Cool Cats thank you for that link. Were those two vests found on the first raid then? Do you think her lying about them to Grand Jury is her obstruction charge?

The way they are mentioned sounds like the BV's were likely found together in GW3's bedroom in Fred's house, May 2017. I thought her farm was raided only once, not counting the records taken of her business purchases/expenses.

Yes the Prosecution said in court that Fred's only lies under oath were about the bullet proof vests.

So they took lying about the vests and made it into 2 charges, perjury and obstruction. She allegedly lied about the vests which then
hinders the investigation, making it obstruction.

If the only evidence they have to present at trial is just her GJ testimony, then I think she has a good chance of beating the charges.

Her attorney already showed his hand, that she is "hard of hearing" and "didn't understand the questions." If she can prove at trial that she actually is hard of hearing that could potentially hold sway with the jury making them feel she's not guilty beyond that reasonable doubt threshold.
 
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Johnny B Bad

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The way they are mentioned sounds like the BV's were likely found together in GW3's bedroom in Fred's house, May 2017. I thought her farm was raided only once, not counting the records taken of her business purchases/expenses.

Yes the Prosecution said in court that Fred's only lies under oath were about the bullet proof vests.

So they took lying about the vests and made it into 2 charges, perjury and obstruction. She allegedly lied about the vests which then
hinders the investigation, making it obstruction.

If the only evidence they have to present at trial is just her GJ testimony, then I think she has a good chance of beating the charges.

Her attorney already showed his hand, that she is "hard of hearing" and "didn't understand the questions." If she can prove at trial that she actually is hard of hearing that could potentially hold sway with the jury.
FW hears good in courtroom now doesn’t strain to hear anyone talking!
 

Dudly

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I told you all: FW is a master of public relations. She knows how to use the media, how to present a story that flatters her in a way that appeals to the news folks. She knows how to weave a narrative and create a lede that grabs attention and sympathy. Look into the news archives from decades past and you'll find dozens of news stories about her various miniature horses or pigs for sale that she placed in major dailies and regional papers across the US. That takes some skill to earn tens of thousands of dollars worth of free advertising. This is just part of her plan to manipulate public opinion to keep her hellish family from going to prison.

I've been around people in the animal trades business. They can really feed you a line. Why their's is special and no one has any like them, we're giving you a special price if you give us good reviews, etc.. They can be worse than some used car salesmen...
 
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Cool Cats

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Some did fight back, they had defensive wounds.

Who had defensive wounds? The only one I've heard of was the bullet that shattered Chris Sr's
right forearm.

BJM described Gary and Chris Sr. as looking beaten but she did not know they had been shot, she just saw injuries and blood. (She did not see any shell casings.)

On the 911 call if she had known they were shot she would have said : "It looks like somebody shot the hell out of them"........Rather than what she did say which was: "It looks like somebody beat the hell out of them" .......My 2 Cents.......

It was never specified what kind of soft tissue bruising the coroner was referring to, and even if any of them were beaten, that doesn't mean that they were able to fight back----thus resulting in defensive wounds.

There really wasn't time for them to fight back, it happened very quickly and 4 were in bed (Chris Jr. was not in bed but probably near the bed as LM stated he had to tell LE to go back and check for him again----if I'm remembering correctly).

The perpetrators were very much in control of the crime scenes which means they wouldn't allow the victims to gain enough control to fight back. The victims never gained the upper hand, I do not believe they had any time at all to fight back.
....... Just My 2 Cents........
 
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On the 911 call if she had known they were shot she would have said : "It looks like somebody shot the hell out of them".

Been meaning to ask this question for a while but didn't wanna bring it up until someone had mentioned it. I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is on the phone call, specifically the ending where bjm can clearly be heard saying "Oh god please don't hurt me" thoughts??
 

The 13th

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Been meaning to ask this question for a while but didn't wanna bring it up until someone had mentioned it. I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is on the phone call, specifically the ending where bjm can clearly be heard saying "Oh god please don't hurt me" thoughts??

I think she says something like "gotta go check on Frankie," not "don't hurt me." JMO.
 

Dudly

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Rhoden family massacre: Autopsy reports indicate one victim was awake when fatally shot

"The reports indicate he was awake when he was confronted by at least one person with a gun. Among the nine gunshot wounds he suffered was an apparent defensive wound to his right forearm that shattered bone."

BBM
Was this written from memory of a reporter that looked at eight autopsy reports a for few minutes? Even then it was likely an opinion of the ME or what a transcriptionist thought was meant.. Just saying, not being argumentative in any way.
If the bullet went through the forearm and hit the upper torso or head, then very likely it was defensive. Then you can get into whether he was shot nine times or eight if a bullet went through the arm and hit his body. Was it counter as one or two hits...
 

KentuckyMama

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I remember watching FW during either the arraignment or pretrial. AC said that her two charges were from lying to the grand jury about the vests and also going against GJ orders to not discuss the testimony with anyone. She may have been telling the others about the questions the GJ had concerning the vests, but it's still two separate independent charges. She lied, which is perjury, and she talked about her GJ testimony against orders which is obstruction. IMO, it's not likely she can claim she was there for hours and heard nothing. She's not new to dealing with the courts. She lied, and she talked.

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-bond-made-rhoden-family-massacre/2010483002/
 

Dudly

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Been meaning to ask this question for a while but didn't wanna bring it up until someone had mentioned it. I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is on the phone call, specifically the ending where bjm can clearly be heard saying "Oh god please don't hurt me" thoughts??

I have never thought she said, "Oh, God, please don't hurt me." I thought she said, "Oh, who could have done this".
 

Myland

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I remember watching FW during either the arraignment or pretrial. AC said that her two charges were from lying to the grand jury about the vests and also going against GJ orders to not discuss the testimony with anyone. She may have been telling the others about the questions the GJ had concerning the vests, but it's still two separate independent charges. She lied, which is perjury, and she talked about her GJ testimony against orders which is obstruction. IMO, it's not likely she can claim she was there for hours and heard nothing. She's not new to dealing with the courts. She lied, and she talked.

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-bond-made-rhoden-family-massacre/2010483002/
I disagree, both charges are related to the lie. At her last hearing the defense asked specifically and the prosecutor responded specifically both charges stem from the lie regarding the vests.
 

KentuckyMama

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I disagree, both charges are related to the lie. At her last hearing the defense asked specifically and the prosecutor responded specifically both charges stem from the lie regarding the vests.
AC said she lied to the GJ about the vests and discussed her testimony. She may have been discussing her testimony about the lie concerning the vests. I don't know. So much can be interpreted by the little we hear from them.
 

Coloradans28

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If CSR was killed first is it possible they took and used GR to get by dogs or gain access to others. Just a theory. Trying to figure out the gun being pressed to his head that left a mark. Then brought him back to CSR’S trailer?
 
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